Just Played Through My First Ever All Valve Rig!

[derrenleepoole]

Well, the title says it all. I\'ve just done a small gig using someone else\'s Orange valve rig! And I am completely sold on the tone. Absolutely incredible presence and warmth. I\'m completely smitten. Totally. I\'ve never used a valve rig before, and I so wish I had. Damn!

The head was one of these matched with a 4x10 cab:


Not a massive room, so loads of volume on tap. As you can guess, I\'m flying at the moment. The gig was great, my short scale fretless jazz has never sounded better live, and the recording of the gig has come out great

I like days like this

Edited January 16, 2011 by derrenleepoole

[skej21]

Good news!

There's nothing like the feeling you get when you find an amp/bass/bit of gear that you just fall in love with. Just buy one before you start to question yourself

However, you do realise that this quote means we have to hear it for ourselves now
[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1091760' date='Jan 16 2011, 08:11 PM']the recording of the gig has come out great [/quote]

[paul_5]

Sounds like someone just found their "mojo". Welcome to the tube world, I think you're going to like it here.

[mep]

Years ago I had the same Orange rig as you. It was fantastic and looked the nuts. I played my Joodee precision copy bass (black with maple neck) through it for a while. I was inspired by The Jam who used Orange back then, with this being the late 80's. Got the lot for £200. I still have a band recording of me using that set up with just a line out from the amp, and what a sound!

Then there was a strange sound. Looking back it was just a valve going. I thought it was something more serious. Being a young inexperienced prat I traded it for some H&H combo thing that soon blew up and was no more. Soon after my bass got nicked. It took me (what felt like) ages to get a good set up going again, settling with a Charvel and a Peavey TNT150.

I am envious of you and know what a blast you will have playing with this if you get the chance again. I still fondly remember my Orange days.

Edited January 16, 2011 by mep

[derrenleepoole]

Problem is, I'm so very very lazy I'm one of those bassists whose gone down the whole 'lighter than a human hair' route of bass gear! Is it possible to have a tube amp and still be lightweight? Looking at Orange's isobaric 2x10 cabs and a Tiny Terror head, makes me think it is Damn you GAS!

Just for the hell of it, this is my favouritest clip on youtube. First, because it's an SX jazz bass, and secondly because the tone of the rig is one of the best I've ever heard! To me, this is what I sounded like today!!!! Enjoy

[yybass]

Yes welcome
I rigged up my Ampeg Classic & 4x10HLF today for 1st time,
well I think you already said it :0)

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1091793' date='Jan 16 2011, 08:44 PM']Is it possible to have a tube amp and still be lightweight? Looking at Orange's isobaric 2x10 cabs and a Tiny Terror head, makes me think it is Damn you GAS![/quote]

The tiny terror won't do it, because it is a solid state head. Neodymium cabs are happy enough, but most of that mojo is in the valve power stage. You don't need to run 200w if you have efficient cabs (not isobaric, ultimate inefficient), especially if you like drive, a 100w head will do you and they aren't so madly heavy.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1091872' date='Jan 16 2011, 09:42 PM']The [b]tiny[/b] terror won't do it, because it is a [b]solid state [/b]head.[/quote]
Who are you and what have you done with Mr Foxen?

Edited January 16, 2011 by skankdelvar

[dannybuoy]

Well, the Bass Terror a hybrid head with a tube preamp, but sounds nothing like it's bigger brother when overdriven. I love plugging my Peavey T-40 into my cranked AD200 and banging away on this riff, it makes me grin like a loon (go to 2:09)!

Edited January 16, 2011 by dannybuoy

[Protium]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='1091891' date='Jan 16 2011, 10:07 PM']Well, the Bass Terror a hybrid head with a tube preamp, but sounds nothing like it's bigger brother when overdriven. I love plugging my Peavey T-40 into my cranked AD200 and banging away on this riff, it makes me grin like a loon (go to 2:09)![/quote]

"Hate to say I told you so" but you can get that exact sound through any amp and an extremely common bass overdrive pedal

[MB1]

MB1.
Think we've got a problem if he finds the Ampeg Svt and the 8x10









Looks like youre gonna need a bigger car!

Edited January 16, 2011 by MB1

[Delberthot]

The only relatively lightweight valve amp that I have come across is the Peavey VB-3. When I first heard about them I was very interested but at £2000 I changed my mind.

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='Protium' post='1091897' date='Jan 16 2011, 10:15 PM']"Hate to say I told you so" but you can get somewhat close to that sound through any amp and an extremely common bass overdrive pedal [/quote]

Fixed

Edited January 17, 2011 by dannybuoy

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1091872' date='Jan 16 2011, 09:42 PM']The tiny terror won't do it, because it is a solid state head. Neodymium cabs are happy enough, but most of that mojo is in the valve power stage. You don't need to run 200w if you have efficient cabs (not isobaric, ultimate inefficient), especially if you like drive, a 100w head will do you and they aren't so madly heavy.[/quote]

You see, this is why I like BC, you learn something new everyday. I'm still bussing off the whole tube vibe, but I'm no expert. I'll do some reading up and see where it takes me. I know where to ask questions though if I need help

[Thepurepower]

The Trace Elliot Twin Valve head is lightweight (for a valve amp) and 110watts - PLENTY for pub gigs. Good luck finding one though! Perhaps the Ashdown Little Bastard would do you better for overdriven sounds though, obv depends what size venues you regular and what style.

Good luck, I'm glad I got to valve's very quickly! Proves new isn't necessarily best

P.s - More efficient drivers/more speakers = less need for power. So either splash out on something fancy (like a Barefaced compact/midget?) Or go cheaper n heavy!

[EskimoBassist]

What about an Ashdown Little Bastard?

[stingrayPete1977]

I always like a valve pre (hence the Genz-Benz) but not as bothered after as the crowd any bigger than the dog and gun will be listening to speakers powered by the PA anyway. Also the neighbours wouldn't appreciate an svt at full tilt! Save your back and get something with a valve pre and tranny/class D drive stage it's the way forward.

[Musicman20]

Nothing sounds like my Orange rig...nothing. I couldn't give two hoots about weight because I have the light option as well...which is lucky.

Glad you enjoyed it.

[derrenleepoole]

Well, after reading up a bit last night on the rig I used, I was very surprised to read that the head is only rated at 200 watts. Given that I was running it into a single 8 ohm cab, that means I was only pushing less than half of the available power for the whole gig, and I was way loud enough. This revelation has floored me. Obviously a single 4x10 is going to move some air, but how can such a relatively low watt rating be so loud when compared to a solid state counterpart amp? Incredible.

Overall, I was very impressed with the build quality of the Orange gear, and I'm very intrigued to explore it further. I mentioned earlier on about the Tiny Terror head. I now understand that this is a tube pre and solid state hybrid. If I am concerned about weight issues, would the TT offer the same kind of sound I experienced at the gig with the all tube head? Or is there some compromise at play here with such hybrid system? Also, the isobaric cabs seem very interesting. Someone mentioned efficiency issues with these. Why should I be concerned about this if they're designed to go with the TT head?

So many questions hey?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1092280' date='Jan 17 2011, 11:24 AM']Well, after reading up a bit last night on the rig I used, I was very surprised to read that the head is only rated at 200 watts. Given that I was running it into a single 8 ohm cab, that means I was only pushing less than half of the available power for the whole gig, and I was way loud enough. This revelation has floored me. Obviously a single 4x10 is going to move some air, but how can such a relatively low watt rating be so loud when compared to a solid state counterpart amp? Incredible.

Overall, I was very impressed with the build quality of the Orange gear, and I'm very intrigued to explore it further. I mentioned earlier on about the Tiny Terror head. I now understand that this is a tube pre and solid state hybrid. If I am concerned about weight issues, would the TT offer the same kind of sound I experienced at the gig with the all tube head? Or is there some compromise at play here with such hybrid system? Also, the isobaric cabs seem very interesting. Someone mentioned efficiency issues with these. Why should I be concerned about this if they're designed to go with the TT head?

So many questions hey? [/quote]

I still dont know the full reasoning why a tube amp sounds 'louder' and seems to have more volume on tap, but Ive seen huge bands play very very large stages with the AD200b Mk3 and two cabinets. It seemed a lot of the bands I listen to are ex-Ampeg users and have switched to Orange due to the recent 'problems' with Ampeg. I think Ampeg are pulling themselves out of it, but in the UK, its a no brainer, as the Orange gear (well the high end of the catalogue) is hand made in the UK and comes with a 3 year warranty.

I agree anyway, the 200 watts (or whatever the true rating) is incredibly loud.

One thing to note, tube amps are their FULL wattage no matter what cabinet/ohmage. So at 8 ohms its 200W and at 4 ohms its 200W.

When you start pushing that gain, it gets quite dirty, but in a very pleasing way...and it seems to get incredibly loud to the point where I have lots of volume left on tap.

The amp you are thinking of is the Bass Terror, which is a hybrid 500 watt light weight amp. Very good price, very light, and can capture the vibe of the bigger AD200b quite well, but obviously it will never have that full girth or tube push. Its close though.

Personally, if you dont want the bigger AD200b Mk3, try the Bass Terror 500 with a few cabinets. The Smart Power SP212 is one punchy little fella! Or, try it with the traditional Orange OBC115 or 410, or try another brand as well.

Hope this helps. I had the same reaction when I played mine for the first time. Like 'woah.....this is it!'.

[Thepurepower]

Many here have said the Terror won't compete this any all valve amp at higher gain levels without sounding harsh.. And 'one trick pony' seems to be the most used expression when describing it :L

And valve amps sound louder due to the colouring @ powerstage + pre amp and the harmonics this creates - bigger ranger of sound = perceived as louder.

With the cabs.. Just go try one - specs mean nothing if it does exactly what you want @ volumes you need. I'd be cautious using anything low powered with them though

[derrenleepoole]

Some really useful information guys, thanks so much. I'm now very keen to try out some gear for sure. I'm not needing masses of dirty tone, it simply wouldn't suit my style. But the warmth and richness of tone that I experienced through that Orange rig has made me realise that this is the tone I've been harking after, but didn't realise it! I think some trips out to local music stores is very much in order in the near future.

[stingrayPete1977]

Bass direct in leamington spa wouldn't take you that long to get to if you make a day of, lots of toys for everyone that's for sure and way better than your average music shop as guitards have to wait outside! There's nothing they need to see in there

Edited January 17, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1092783' date='Jan 17 2011, 05:20 PM']... in meaningful spa[/quote]
predictive text ?

[Protium]

[quote name='MB1' post='1091908' date='Jan 16 2011, 10:26 PM']Looks like youre gonna need a bigger car! [/quote]

Indeed, I can only just fit the Schroeder in my car (which is not a cavernous BMW btw )