ivansc Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I am so glad to see a lot of what [b]I [/b]think of as jazz in this thread, rather than the usual lame "fusion" stuff that seems to be widdly rock guitarists wearing serious expressions playing everything starting on the "and of 1", prefereably in weird meter and with very little reference to a discernible melody. My heartfelt thanks to the usually silent majority! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1492074024' post='3277629'] I am so glad to see a lot of what [b]I [/b]think of as jazz in this thread, rather than the usual lame "fusion" stuff that seems to be widdly rock guitarists wearing serious expressions playing everything starting on the "and of 1", prefereably in weird meter and with very little reference to a discernible melody. My heartfelt thanks to the usually silent majority! [/quote] The term "jazz" is just an "umbrella" name for a vast array of music that is constantly evolving. Louis Armstrong's putting down of bebop music springs to mind here. [url="http://www.newworldrecords.org/liner_notes/80458.pdf"]http://www.newworldr...notes/80458.pdf[/url] Edited April 13, 2017 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Louis's putting down of bebop is perhaps relevant because it is well argued that the emergence of that genre put an end to jazz as a popular medium. Put bluntly, people just couldn't dance to this new angular, at times cool, at times frenetic music. I'm not putting bebop down, it's my favourite jazz medium, to listen to and to play. But its unpopularity is the reason I don't get called to play it as much as I'd like and I find myself playing lounge music, Dixieland and Gypsy. They're OK but they're not bebop. Some great YouTubes lately. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Dizzy Gillespie - Rhythmstick. 'Friday Night At The Cadillac Club', with Anthony Jackson on Bass. http://youtu.be/pOOanFtqQvc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 [quote name='bassace' timestamp='1492079341' post='3277717'] Louis's putting down of bebop is perhaps relevant because it is well argued that the emergence of that genre put an end to jazz as a popular medium. Put bluntly, people just couldn't dance to this new angular, at times cool, at times frenetic music. I'm not putting bebop down, it's my favourite jazz medium, to listen to and to play. But its unpopularity is the reason I don't get called to play it as much as I'd like and I find myself playing lounge music, Dixieland and Gypsy. They're OK but they're not bebop. [/quote] I agree with your post. However, my point is/was ...as far as "jazz " goes...one man's meat is another man's poison. Some like to dance, some prefer to sit and listen. I was addressing "ivansac's" statement : "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]..... rather than the usual lame "fusion" stuff that seems to be widdly rock guitarists wearing serious expressions playing everything starting on the "and of 1", prefereably in weird meter and with very little reference to a discernible melody."[/size][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Where in the jazz "rulebook" does it state [/size][/font][/color][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"][size=3]that a discernible melody is required. [/size][/color][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1492074024' post='3277629'] I am so glad to see a lot of what [b]I [/b]think of as jazz in this thread, rather than the usual lame "fusion" stuff that seems to be widdly rock guitarists wearing serious expressions playing everything starting on the "and of 1", prefereably in weird meter and with very little reference to a discernible melody. My heartfelt thanks to the usually silent majority! [/quote] Arf! Jazz is about expression and musicianship, and pushing the boundaries (or not, in many cases!). As a result it's a broad church, and not all of it is to everybody's taste. Personally I can't stand lounge/elevator type jazz as it seems safe, sanitised and designed for people who don't like to be distracted while they eat their prawn cocktail! Each to their own - but this is more my type of thing, though I can see why many would think it unlistenable unmusic! [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKYq4H3-iKM[/MEDIA] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Country music is also a very broad church. How do you feel about that stuff? Elevator music/Kenny G has NOTHING to do with jazz and never has. Come to think of it, on listening to your example about I got the distinct impression that this was some decent players with a sax player who felt like he had to put in irrelevant atonal squawks from time to time in order to be taken as a serious jazzer. Mor smoke and mirrors but at least there is SOME musicianship in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I love playing a bit of elevator music to a non-listening audience whilst they're chewing away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHNrq-dC8Ko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1492365649' post='3279715'] Country music is also a very broad church. How do you feel about that stuff? Elevator music/Kenny G has NOTHING to do with jazz and never has. Come to think of it, on listening to your example about I got the distinct impression that this was some decent players with a sax player who felt like he had to put in irrelevant atonal squawks from time to time in order to be taken as a serious jazzer. Mor smoke and mirrors but at least there is SOME musicianship in there. [/quote] I'm not normally a fan of Both Kinds of Music, though I've enjoyed Hank Wangford's take on it! However, I feel that some jazz fans have a very narrow, and perhaps snobbish view of what jazz is; anything they don't like is sneered at as "fusion" - especially if there are electric instruments, or, the horror! effects... Here's the supremely talented John Zorn with barely a tune in sight, then it gets all melodical. Bit it's about the aural assault, the spectacle, and most of all, the feeling: [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF5tidRij1g[MEDIA] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) If Jazz/music is an Art and if you have your definition of what it is, someone will come along to redefine or de-define because that is the nature of Art and that is the artist's inclination. As to whether it is perceived as good or bad art well that is within the person and may change with then and now or mood or place or any amount of influences. Some of the clips above remind me of Zappa. Often he would begin with frantic sort of free-form mad assaults on the eardrums which would often then seamlessly transform into a smooth cheesy tune of sweetly melancholy, but never soporific for long. Always with humour. After ten to fifteen years of playing in a covers/function band, for the past year or so I'm bass in a quartet with rhythm guitar, trumpet and sax. My world of music is now a universe with no edge in sight. And at 68 yrs I don't have the time left to learn or experience or get good at everything there is out there to do. If only I hadn't waited till aged 50 to pick up a bass! So to all young BCers I would say don't erect fences around what you will and will not listen to or play. Have a go at 'The Girl From Ipanema'. What a strange chord sequence, but it works. I love those Latin rhymns. We play 'Spanish Eyes'. A very simple G, D, F tune but it's the slow numbers that are so hard to keep a steady beat to. I really have to concentrate. Playing in a Jazz band has changed my mindset about my [i]job[/i] in a band. For the most part, the rhythm guitarist and I are just that, the [i]rhythm section. [/i]That sounds silly in print but what I mean is you have a specific job to do behind the voices of the band. I'm getting the feeling that my words are beginning to not make sense. An example - we play 'Sunny', a repetitive rhythm. The 2 of us just keep going, watching and listening to each other to check we're in time. The sax and trumpet are all over the place. I can't even recognise the tune any more, they're in free-form mode and I'm hoping that when they do return to the melody we're all in the same place which thankfully and by some miracle we always are. I think I'm just chuntering away now so I'll stop waffling. Just to say don't shut your ears to anything, painful though that may be sometimes. Edited April 17, 2017 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Music must always have humour... Even if it's only hiding round the back of the drums! And I could never confine myself to playing [I]purely[/I] rhythm. I like bass, in any genre, to at least occasionally, be seriously centre=stage. Probably because 2 of my favourite players are Bootsy and this chap: [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ekyz6IDQlY[/MEDIA] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1492416229' post='3279966'] I'm not normally a fan of Both Kinds of Music, though I've enjoyed Hank Wangford's take on it!..... barely a tune in sight, then it gets all melodical. Bit it's about the aural assault, the feeling: [MEDIA][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF5tidRij1g[/media][MEDIA] [/quote] Squished your post down a bit - You are up on the good Dr. then? Had some hilarious moments playing gigs where they were on the bill! Sadly he is apparently an over the hill old relic like me and doesn't do much any more. Aural assault, eh? I thought people went to gigs/concerts to enjoy themselves. Personally if I want aural assault I generally go to a football match or similar. Agreed there IS probably a niche audience for that sort of confrontational stuff but what I take issue with is the point at which it splits between someone like Zappa, or Parker, who could do it... and the wannabes whose reach far exceeded their grasp, starting around the time of folks like Ornette Coleman. This is also a large part of the reason people like me cringe when rock and roll players decide to become jazz artists. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of "fusion guitarists" who can actually pull it off. Bet you are a Derek Bailey fan, aren't you? Incidentally, don't get me wrong, you have your preferences, I have mine & far be it to suggest that you are wrong to like this [s]leaden crap [/s] "special" musical artform. Edited April 18, 2017 by ivansc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1492510028' post='3280759'] Bet you are a Derek Bailey fan, aren't you? [/quote] Funnily enough, I tend to like the idea of him more than the practice. Saying that, I went to see him once at the Barbican where he was supporting the crazy trio of Bill Laswell, John Zorn and Dave Lombardo. And he was excellently entertaining! His fellow musicians were a turntablist and keyboard player who spent as much time using his elbows as fingers. 2 of my companions thought it the worst rubbish they'd ever heard, whereas me and t'other one hadn't had so much fun since That Night In Amsterdam. However, I do like this DB album, with Jamaaladeen on bass and Calvin Weston on drums. Allegedly when Mr Bailey walked in Jamaaladeen said "Hey Derek, let's funk!" [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOGdAFxe9_0[/MEDIA] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 In bygone days, jazz was vibrant. Today, IMO, it's mostly self indulgent and derivative. It's dead and rigermortice has set in. Send flowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 In other words: [i]Music was much better in my youth. Nowadays it's just a noise. The kids these days don't know what music is anymore![/i] Funnily enough, as folks have got older and more jaded they've been uttering exactly that sentiment since Guido of Arezzo and his hexatone system involving the Devil's Interval! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 [quote name='Yank' timestamp='1492681605' post='3282215'] In bygone days, jazz was vibrant. Today, IMO, it's mostly self indulgent and derivative. It's dead and rigermortice has set in. Send flowers. [/quote] A bit of a generalisation IMO. This might change your mind . It is Belgian band "Aka Moon's" interpretation of Scarlatti's sonnets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM6uJWUvJH0 I have being keeping an eye on..and enjoying... the exchanges over the last few posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 [quote name='Yank' timestamp='1492681605' post='3282215'] In bygone days, jazz was vibrant. Today, IMO, it's mostly self indulgent and derivative. It's dead and rigermortice has set in. Send flowers. [/quote] Depends on what you call Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1492711507' post='3282657'] Depends on what you call Jazz. [/quote] That's a whole different thread in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) It's mostly drum-related and not "trad" jazz and might not be for some but I watched this the other day and found it really inspiring. I've always loved Jojo's playing and this just shows how great he is as a musician first :-) http://youtu.be/sJMsc8le6_E Edited April 20, 2017 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I love this... https://youtu.be/rtW1S5EbHgU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Some lovely playing from Red Mitchell, along with Kenny Barron and a Drummer called Ben Riley. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV005BZ5-oY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 The Rolling Stones win this years 'Album of the Year' award at UK's [u][b]Jazz [/b][/u]FM awards, [color=#000000]“We started off a very long time ago in London trying to play clubs, and those clubs were jazz clubs,” recalled Mick Jagger, collecting the publicly voted prize at London’s Shoreditch Town Hall alongside bandmates Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts earlier Tuesday evening (April 25). [/color] [color=#000000] [/color][color=#000000] [/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1493203879' post='3286421'] The Rolling Stones win this years 'Album of the Year' award at UK's [u][b]Jazz [/b][/u]FM awards, [color=#000000]“We started off a very long time ago in London trying to play clubs, and those clubs were jazz clubs,” recalled Mick Jagger, collecting the publicly voted prize at London’s Shoreditch Town Hall alongside bandmates Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts earlier Tuesday evening (April 25). [/color] [color=#000000] [/color] [/quote] I wonder what the jazz snobs will make of this. Maybe Van will win it next year with "Moondance" !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 I think Little Mix should have won. One of them wore a beret once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1493219114' post='3286630'] I think Little Mix should have won. One of them wore a beret once. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.