Macca's Hofner on Jools Holland

[cd_david]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1004868' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:24 AM']Oh dear.

Put McCartney alongside Clarke, Wooten, Miller, etc. and you'd be right - he's nothing exceptional.

The whole point is that you CAN'T.

Clarke, Wooten, Miller, etc. all grew up [i][b]listening to [/b][/i]McCartney (and Entwistle, and ...), copying him, and trying to improve on what he did.
[/quote]

But Macca has not been restricted to his Beatles works, he doesnt just exist in 1964 BUT his playing does., Geddy Lee was little more than poor on the first Rush album but he improved and expanded his ability and technique, I'm sure Wooten started as a novice too and not the pyrotechnical expert he is today. Everyone gets better with practice,

Just because your back catalogue is average doesnt mean you have to stay average.

Macca is still playing today, he has been playing bass for the last 40 odd years and therefore he CAN be compared to everyone else.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='cd_david' post='1004883' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:43 AM']But Macca has not been restricted to his Beatles works, he doesnt just exist in 1964 BUT his playing does., Geddy Lee was little more than poor on the first Rush album but he improved and expanded his ability and technique, I'm sure Wooten started as a novice too and not the pyrotechnical expert he is today. Everyone gets better with practice,

Just because your back catalogue is average doesnt mean you have to stay average.

Macca is still playing today, he has been playing bass for the last 40 odd years and therefore he CAN be compared to everyone else.

[/quote]

Perfectly fair comments, except that the comment to which I was replying was:

[i][b][color="#0000FF"]ps. Id crawl over broken glass to get away from Paul McCartney and his stupid shakey face going wooooooo all the time AGhhh!!

Man I loathe the Beatles[/color].[/b][/i]

Macca's playing [u][b]today [/b][/u]was therefore not the issue.

In similar vein, your own comment [i][b][color="#0000FF"]Its amazing what nostalgia can do for a reputation[/color][/b][/i] makes it pretty clear that you're not talking about Macca in 2010.

Just saying ...

[Hobbayne]

I recently had to learn "Nowhere Man" and eventually figured it out, as the bass was buried in the mix (or my crap stero) and found it quiet fun to play.
A lot of nice little chromatic runs and 8th notes he was only about 21 or something back then so I take my hat off to him.
However, I do agree that he is up his own arse these days!

[oldslapper]

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1004875' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:34 AM']....anyone see an Ashdown head??..............
[/quote]


Yes, just checked you tube "Jet" and round about 2:10-14, definitely Ashdown head can be seen....you were right

[oldslapper]

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1005013' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:14 PM']Yes, just checked you tube "Jet" and round about 2:10-14, definitely Ashdown head can be seen....you were right[/quote]

Cool, didn't know he used Ashdown?

[oldslapper]

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1005014' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:15 PM']Cool, didn't know he used Ashdown?[/quote]


Looks like it.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1005015' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:15 PM']Looks like it.[/quote]


That's what I love about these threads about gear, very informative....thanks

[oldslapper]

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1005016' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:16 PM']That's what I love about these threads about gear, very informative....thanks
[/quote]

Any time dude.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='daz' post='1004804' date='Oct 29 2010, 09:33 AM']Any speaker can act as a mike and vise versa.

ps. Id crawl over broken glass to get away from Paul McCartney and his stupid shakey face going wooooooo all the time AGhhh!!

Man I l[b]oathe [/b]the Beatles.

There ive said it. whos with me?[/quote]
And what was it that attracted you to this thread?

Edited October 29, 2010 by EssentialTension

[Jigster]

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1005018' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:16 PM']Any time dude.[/quote]

john, you're [b]such[/b] an attention seeker. Okay, what do you want to talk about...

[daz]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1005076' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:41 PM']And what was it that attracted you to this thread?[/quote]

the thing about speakers acting as microphones.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1004868' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:24 AM']Put McCartney alongside Clarke, Wooten, Miller, etc. and you'd be right - he's nothing exceptional.

The whole point is that you CAN'T.[/quote]
Sure you can. I know loads of McCartney's basslines to hear and even though I've checked out tunes featuring the other luminaries of our instrument over the years I'll be honest, I can't think of a single bassline any of them wrote.

[Starless]

There is no point comparing Macca to any of the above mentioned bassists. Macca never gave a sh*t about 'bass as art-form', unlike the kind of pretentious twiddling heroes-of-bass mentioned above.

Macca was (still is and will be until he dies) a MUSICIAN and SONGWRITER. Musical instruments to him are the means to the end of a complete rendition of a song (remember those things with words and melodies?). He only ended up as the bass player because 'someone had to do it'. He has a very healthy disregard for strings or tone or technique - as long as the end product is fine that's all he cares about. His basslines are beautifully put together to compliment the complete composition and recording. And yet pseudo experts still insist on picking them out in isolation and comparing them to widdling, solo-ing, bass 'heroes'?? Eh, why? What is the point of that pray tell?

Back in my day at school (late 60's/ early 70's) there was always the playground 'look at me' merchant daring to be different. One tactic they employed was to profess to 'hate' the Beatles (or anything else that was incredibly popular). It looks like they grew up (or I should say, got older), had kids and the same 'look at me' DNA has been passed on through the generations and we see it now on Internet forums.

I'm not an Elvis fan, does nothing for me, but I can appreciate his impact and (continuing) influence on popular music. I can't therefore 'hate' Elvis.

For someone to say they 'hate' The Beatles just highlights their complete inability to appreciate popular music in its historical context - and that context includes the shock-horror revelation that bass guitar in 60's popular music really was almost an afterthought (records were mixed to sound good on a transistor radio after all).

Bad-mouthing McCartney because of his (68 year-old) face, or the fact that he might be right up himself, is just hilarious. Takes me right back to the playground...

[MacDaddy]

Interesting how McCartney opted for the Hofner because it was a cheaper imitation of the Gibson which was a lot more expensive. Gibson stopped making their violin-bass and the rest is history.

Does the a-list almost-billionaire superstar and popular culture icon give a rats ass about disparaging comments on a bass forum? As he employs teams of people to cultivate and maintain a specific media image, it's possible he might. But I doubt it.

Disappointing how any thread on Macca always seems to degenerate in to the same old argument though.

[tauzero]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1003223' date='Oct 28 2010, 12:06 AM']Here's [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2684648/Scorched-Jimi-Hendrix-guitar-sells-for-280000.html"]one of several Stratocasters burned by Hendrix[/url] - it sold for £280,000 in 2008:

[/quote]
Isn't that "roasted"? Where's tino when you want him?

I regret not buying a Hofner violin bass of similar vintage to McCartney's back in the mid 80s - could have had it for £75 but it was such an utterly crap bass that I didn't. That could have been my pension, that could...

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='1005285' date='Oct 29 2010, 03:07 PM']Interesting how McCartney opted for the Hofner because it was a cheaper imitation of the Gibson which was a lot more expensive. Gibson stopped making their violin-bass and the rest is history.

Does the a-list almost-billionaire superstar and popular culture icon give a rats ass about disparaging comments on a bass forum? As he employs teams of people to cultivate and maintain a specific media image, it's possible he might. But I doubt it.

Disappointing how any thread on Macca always seems to degenerate in to the same old argument though.[/quote]
It's a strange argument too because if someone doesn't like Macca or his songs or his bass playing then fair enough but it seems to me it's impossible historically to get away from his massive influence. I always suspect that those who don't like McCartney do like people who would rate him and say they were influenced by him.

[cd_david]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1004966' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:49 AM']Perfectly fair comments, except that the comment to which I was replying was:

[i][b][color="#0000FF"]ps. Id crawl over broken glass to get away from Paul McCartney and his stupid shakey face going wooooooo all the time AGhhh!!

Man I loathe the Beatles[/color].[/b][/i]

Macca's playing [u][b]today [/b][/u]was therefore not the issue.

In similar vein, your own comment [i][b][color="#0000FF"]Its amazing what nostalgia can do for a reputation[/color][/b][/i] makes it pretty clear that you're not talking about Macca in 2010.

Just saying ...[/quote]


Pedantic, but I'll give you that LOL,

He has to be one of the most over rated players of all time, its like saying Chas Chandler was a bass god! No he was a mediocre musician, same as Macca was back then and same as he is now.

Im not saying he's sh*te, far from it just not the inspirational force people often make him out to be.

Each to their own.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Starless' post='1005262' date='Oct 29 2010, 02:53 PM']There is no point comparing Macca to any of the above mentioned bassists. Macca never gave a sh*t about 'bass as art-form', unlike the kind of pretentious twiddling heroes-of-bass mentioned above.

Macca was (still is and will be until he dies) a MUSICIAN and SONGWRITER. Musical instruments to him are the means to the end of a complete rendition of a song (remember those things with words and melodies?). He only ended up as the bass player because 'someone had to do it'. He has a very healthy disregard for strings or tone or technique - as long as the end product is fine that's all he cares about. His basslines are beautifully put together to compliment the complete composition and recording. And yet pseudo experts still insist on picking them out in isolation and comparing them to widdling, solo-ing, bass 'heroes'?? Eh, why? What is the point of that pray tell?

Back in my day at school (late 60's/ early 70's) there was always the playground 'look at me' merchant daring to be different. One tactic they employed was to profess to 'hate' the Beatles (or anything else that was incredibly popular). It looks like they grew up (or I should say, got older), had kids and the same 'look at me' DNA has been passed on through the generations and we see it now on Internet forums.

I'm not an Elvis fan, does nothing for me, but I can appreciate his impact and (continuing) influence on popular music. I can't therefore 'hate' Elvis.

For someone to say they 'hate' The Beatles just highlights their complete inability to appreciate popular music in its historical context - and that context includes the shock-horror revelation that bass guitar in 60's popular music really was almost an afterthought (records were mixed to sound good on a transistor radio after all).

Bad-mouthing McCartney because of his (68 year-old) face, or the fact that he might be right up himself, is just hilarious. Takes me right back to the playground...[/quote]
Absolutely, 100%, spot on - right down to the school years, the "I hate the Beatles" 6-7 year old kids, and not liking Elvis though recognising the stupidity of denying his influence. Yep, these sort of arguments truly are hilarious.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='Jigster' post='1001812' date='Oct 26 2010, 10:11 PM']wondering how much it's worth, if it's the original one he used, and if any one in the audience is daft enough to make a swipe for it!![/quote]

So Chris, do you feel you are any more enlightened??

........................................Did I mention the Ashdown amp in the background by the way??? I had a lovely conversation on here....very nice chap (Oldslapper was his name I think)....obviously knows his stuff, very handsome and talented by all accounts.......unlike Macclar apparently..??!!

John

[lanark]

[quote name='cd_david' post='1004883' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:43 AM']But Macca has not been restricted to his Beatles works, he doesnt just exist in 1964 BUT his playing does., Geddy Lee was little more than poor on the first Rush album but he improved and expanded his ability and technique, I'm sure Wooten started as a novice too and not the pyrotechnical expert he is today. Everyone gets better with practice,

Just because your back catalogue is average doesnt mean you have to stay average.

Macca is still playing today, he has been playing bass for the last 40 odd years and therefore he CAN be compared to everyone else.

[/quote]

You can criticise Macca's bass playing, but it's a bit like criticising Beethoven's french horn playing.

[daz]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1005560' date='Oct 29 2010, 06:16 PM']Absolutely, 100%, spot on - right down to the school years, the "I hate the Beatles" 6-7 year old kids, and not liking Elvis though recognizing the stupidity of denying his influence. Yep, these sort of arguments truly are hilarious.[/quote]

Rubbish. Saying i loathe the Beatles (which i do and always have done) Is not the same as saying i don't acknowledge the effect they have had on late 20th century songwriting . For good or ill its obviously been huge, only a fool (or a troll) would try to say otherwise.

I am 48 years old so i grew up hearing their twee tripe on the radio day in day out. I'm sure i have heard as many if not more songs by them over the years as most people here. I dislike both their songs and singing, and that damn "Whoooooo' of McCartney's pursed lips like he's just sat on a boiling kettle and the steam is singing through his cakehole.

As for influence influence id say both Elvis Presley and The Rolling Stones were a more positive force in modern music. But hey who cares what i think, its just an opinion. But saying i am stating it here just to be controversial is insulting. How on earth is anyone else here expected to know what i do or don't like. Am i suspected of being a closet Beatles fan now?

Edited October 30, 2010 by daz

[lanark]

[quote name='daz' post='1005841' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:17 PM']Rubbish. Saying i loathe the Beatles (which i do and always have done) Is not the same as saying i don't acknowledge the effect they have had on late 20th century songwriting . For good or ill its obviously been huge, only a fool (or a troll) would try to say otherwise.

I am 48 years old so i grew up hearing their twee tripe on the radio day in day out. I'm sure i have heard as many if not more songs by them over the years as most people here. I dislike both their songs and singing, and that damn "Whoooooo' of McCartney's pursed lips like he's just sat on a boiling kettle and the steam is singing through his cakehole.

As a positive influence id say both Elvis Presley and The Rolling Stones were a more positive force in modern music. But hey who cares what i think, its just an opinion. But saying i am stating it here just to be controversial is insulting. How on earth is anyone else here expected to know what i do or don't like. Am i suspected of being a closet Beatles fan now?[/quote]

Presley yes, Stones no.

[skankdelvar]

Whether McCartney is a good bass player and whether the Beatles wrote 'good' songs is a debate so covered in tiretracks as to be virtually worthless. And, in the end, it just comes down to personal taste.

The 'influence' thing is often seen as an issue of musicianship and absorption of licks, sounds, techniques. But there's so much more.

* They're responsible for the idea that bands could - and [i]should [/i]- 'progress'. Before the Beatles, bands were expected to last for a couple of years or so. They'd put out pretty much the same stuff across their brief career. The fact the Beatles' fame ensured they lasted for longer required that they had to periodically re-invent themselves. Thank the Beatles for Metallica refusing to lay down and die.

* The Beatles killed Tin Pan Alley. Today, everyone's a songwriter. Unfortunately.

* They moved beyond the idea of the Pop album as a collection of singles and filler. They used innovative studio recording techniques to go beyond 'song capture' and into the realm of audio creativity. It is the Beatles fault that we have 96 track desks and infinite channel capacity on DAW's. To the extent that recording live to two-track is seen as wildly radical.

* The Beatles acted as a bridgehead for the idea of Pop as Art. Without the Beatles, no psychedelia, no Floyd, Velvets, JAMC, Husker Du, no chinstroking rockers. Just big sh*t-eating smiles and waves to the audience.

* By virtue of their ubiquity and marketability, the Beatles opened the door to Pop merchandising, tat, spin-offs, stalkers and conspiracy theories.

* The Beatles absorbed and re-purposed significantly different musical forms - reggae, folk, psychedelia, blues, soul. In so doing they exposed musos and audiences alike to new sounds and textures. You could make a shaky case for the Beatles being indirectly responsible for the idea of sub-genres within pop music

* Without the Beatles there would have been no 'British Invasion' and no US exposure for bands like The Stones, Animals, Yardbirds. Muddy Waters would have spent the rest of his life doing cash in hand odd jobs and Blues Rock would not have been invented, so no bent note Les Paul Marshall Stackery.

* The irreverant, provocative intelligence of their public pronouncements raised the bar for musos everywhere. Simple anodyne comments like "Thanks to all our fans and my favourite colour is blue" gave way to arguments about spirituality, The Establishment, war and - er - Universal Love. Without the Beatles, no Bono, no Zappa and no Silddx.

* Philip Norman makes a convincing case for The Beatles as a major component in changing attitudes to authority, morals, sex and drugs. He also blames the Beatles for today's solipsistic Entitlement culture. Without the Beatles, chavs wouldn't exist and everyone would know their place, according to Mr Norman. And he may be right.

Now you could argue that lots of other people were beavering away putting this stuff together and you'd be correct. But the Beatles were the catalyst, the bridgehead and the force which propelled isolated, nascent practices and ideas into the mainstream.

So you don't have to like the Beatles - I don't much - to at least tip your hat to their influence on the landscape we inhabit on a daily basis.

Edited October 30, 2010 by skankdelvar

[AndyTravis]

The Ashdown is normally for his guitarist who switches to bass when Macca plays keys, or guitar.

If I remember rightly, the man in question used Mesa/Boogie gear for a good while. And he seemed to running through VOX gear on Jools...

I'm more than happy to be wrong, to be honest I don't mind what he uses.

Macca can be a little hard to watch; a bit cringy, I agree (Is he still doing the 'Peace' sign a lot? I didn't notice).

But I respect him, totally.

Sit down and play 'All My Loving' properly, note for note, amongst others. And just note that it's not boring crap, in fact it's fun to play.

And for all the naysayers, if being a 'sh*t bass player' had netted me around a billion quid, i'm sure i'd skip my 'Advanced Bass Soling Techniques' lesson too - i'd have a private Jet to catch to my private Island in the sun or some other useless crap to be getting on with.

It's easier to throw sh*t at a bigger target.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='AndyTravis' post='1005978' date='Oct 30 2010, 02:00 AM']Is he still doing the 'Peace' sign a lot?[/quote]
It's the thumb's-up thing that boils my piss. Nobody I know has done [i]that [/i]since 1949.