Bassassin

[quote name='hoiho' timestamp='1389443431' post='2334176'] 1970s EB-0 copy, in central Scotland, for £100. [url="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152149210477431&set=gm.579612698785958&type=1"]https://www.facebook...98785958&type=1[/url] [/quote] Looks like all the JapCrap anoraks were wrong all along, and all they had in Japan was one big Ibanez factory badging up the same things with names like Avon. Gawd. Reality: Not Fujigen, nothing like Ibanez, made from plywood & tin, cheap at the time, worth about £30 from your local car boot tomorrow morning. Take the Avon badge off & it's suddenly worth twice that. I've joined the group, though... J.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1389437136' post='2334092'] Columbus bass. With a case and amp, but still £350 looks just a bit steep. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Columbus-Bass-Guitar-Case-Amp-And-Speaker-/121252286311?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1c3b330f67"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item1c3b330f67[/url] [/quote] That seller's been having the same sadly unrealistic dream for a few months - check their completed listings. And Carlsbro Cobras really weren't very good! Overpriced instruments being constantly re-listed can be interesting. Locally there's been someone trying to sell a Pearl Les Paul copy (70s, MIJ, probably Matsumoku replica-grade) for about 3 years! It started at aboout £500 and has now reached £200 - if/when it gets to £150 I might go & have a look. J.

Actually, looking again, I don't think they are - the keys are a different shape and not "faceted" like this type. Normally you see the Shergold-style and on earlier instruments, the black plastic type, which I'd assume to have been phased out by the early/mid 70s. I have a vague idea that I've seen a different style of closed-back, cast-key tuners on a few basses. I'll have to have a dig around & see if I can find decent photographic evidence. You're right about Fujigen using those pickups - they appear on most of their early 70s basses, replaced by more accurate types as the basses became more authentic. Other makers did use them - they even turn up on Korean-made Hondos from time to time - but I'd tend to lean towards Fujigen on a nice looking J copy like this. The pickups were Maxons, actually single-coils with 2 rows of poles, some of them are very high-output - I have one in a Rickenfaker that's around 14k if I remember rightly. J.

Missed this thread at the time, but some interesting assertions/opinions being expressed! I have two Westburys - a Track Two and a Westy Standard guitar. Normally I'd say Noelk27 is the man to listen to in terms of this era of MIJ instruments, but his view here doesn't concur with my experience. Pickups are DiMarzio, as several respondents have already said - afaik they were across the range. While build quality isn't as stellar as, say SB series Aria Pros or the high-end Washburns, they are far from being tat - bodies are solid timber, mahogany according to the catalogue, iirc, hardware is mostly decent - apart from that 3-point bridge which bends & cracks after a few decades' string tension. The Track 2 & Track IV are, despite being aesthetically similar, entirely different basses. The 2 is a simple, bolt-neck, slab body design while the IV has a carved arch top and set-neck construction. I'd assume (having never played one) that the IV is somewhat heavier, and as that extra weight's in the body, maybe a little less prone to neck-dive. Anyway, for good measure, here's my Westbury Synchro Pair: [sharedmedia=core:attachments:64632] Jon.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1389355942' post='2333174'] Thanks for the info on your Cardinals. Interesting looking El Maya here. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/El-Maya-Ibanez-active-bass-made-in-Japan-1981-/271364720733?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3f2e99085d"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3f2e99085d[/url] [/quote] That's a very interesting El Maya, since most of it's an Ibanez RS900 Roadster. Not going to say too much because I'm pretty sure the seller's a BC member, but given that the El Maya neck has an extra fret over the RS900, it's likely struggling to intonate properly. And £350+ is a [i]lot[/i] of money for a [s]bodge[/s] bitsa. He has another very rare & interesting MIJ bass for sale though: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polytone-Contempo-B-bass-ultra-rare-Mij-like-Ibanez-artist-/271364652076"]http://www.ebay.co.u...t-/271364652076[/url] I've only ever seen pictures of these before, very striking bass, love the inlays but not too sure about the headstock. Curiously enough though, the exact same bass was sold branded as El Maya, with a neck ever-so-slightly exactly the same as the one bolted onto that poor Ibanez. Whatever can it mean? J.

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1389311397' post='2332858'] Hopefully Jon will be along soon to put me right. Edit: Actually I think the tuners might be the plastic topped ones they used in the early 70's, rather than the rectangular ones I first thought. So maybe it is a Fuji Gen after all. [/quote] Happy to help! Those tuners are the ones with the cast chrome buttons, which turn up on Japanese basses from pretty much all known brands & manufacturers - although not usually on Fujigen Fender copies, it's true. A lot of hardware on early/mid 70s MIJ stuff appears to be Gotoh, and I have seen a NOS set of these in a Gotoh box. As for the bass - it's a Status alright, although nothing to do with that nice Mr Green: [sharedmedia=core:attachments:73542] [sharedmedia=core:attachments:73543] From a Jedson catalogue which is probably circa 1972. This might well be a decent JapCrap J if it sells for sensible money. Jon.

Bit late to this thread but... Geoff, you're maybe thinking of CSL, some of their guitars & basses were from the same factory as Ibanez & Antoria, because CSL was house brand of Charles Summerfield Ltd, at the time UK importer for Ibanez. Those tree-of-life Fujigen LPs were gorgeous and are very collectable now, whatever brand's on them. CMIs were a bit of a mixed bag. Like a lot of UK brands they had a several different quality levels in their range and they sourced from several different factories, probably based on who was doing the best deal at the time. Most of what turns up tends to be the lower-end stuff (probably because they sold more of them) and while not awful, they're low-to-middling quality, similar, if not the same as Columbus or Avon. CMI didn't only come from Japan, either - I had a CMI-branded Ned Callan bass a few years ago, BCer Razze06 has it now. Jon.

[quote name='hubrad' timestamp='1389287132' post='2332418'] Someone had to point this out! [/quote] The fact the hamfisted shop gonk was also calling it an "input" kind of says it all... Jon.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389229722' post='2331781'] Oh, I see. English isn't your native language then. [/quote] Indeed. Born & dragged up in the Medway Towns ("tahns" mush, innit) but effected an escape some 26 years ago. I don't know what the hell they speak back there but it certainly ain't English. J.

Fair play - that Model P's worth twice that! J.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389191336' post='2331113'] Please ignore... [/quote] Not at all - it's a rare day that I get pulled up about lazy use of language and I appreciate the reprimand. I do try to avoid mangling the language (apart from for attempted comedic effect) in particular the use of lazy Americanisms. My only excuse is that I've been living in Scotland for too long. J.

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1389182826' post='2330930'] [b]Jon is right, as always[/b]. Squiers are unfortunately associated with cheap tat, i think i destroyed my fair share of great guitars in the 90s, as they were squiers, and therefore needed to be Townsended at the end of the gig. Sorry. [/quote] I forgive you, if only for your obsequiousness. J.

I have dismantled and rebuilt easily over 100 bolt-neck basses and guitars, most of them 70s Japanese instruments made from significantly inferior timber to 80s Fujigen products - I have never had a problem re-attaching a neck. The screws cut a thread into the timber the first time the neck's attached, re-fitting it cleanly is simply a matter of making sure the screws engage the "threads" cleanly & not over-torqueing. In the event some ham-fisted numpty did manage to chew the wood up, it's spectacularly easy to plug the old hole with a dowel & re-drill it, anyway. J.

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1389139126' post='2330665'] There are some nice guitars there. [/quote] £385 for a mid-70s Aria J copy? Dream on. Jon.

Satellites were nothing to do with Teisco, Matsumoku didn't build Columbus Js, end of. There's a lot of out-of-date erroneous information floating around on the web, most of it (including the Japanese manufacturer list I'm sure Fleabag's referring to) has been picked apart & discredited on the various specialist JapCrap boards where there are people who have been living & breathing this stuff since 1972. Because most of the factories & importers are long-gone, the few that aren't kept no records, and these were irrelevant budget instruments at the time, the study of JapCrap is an odd cross between archaeology & detective work. Some manufacturers (Matsumoku, for example) have easily-identified features, while others are much more generic. Often the only way to define the origin of an instrument is to compare a no-brand or off-brand with an example of one with a known provenance. Eg - there are no confirmed Matsumoku Jazz copies which are the same as Columbus J clones, therefore Matsumoku didn't make Columbus Js. On the other hand, a particular Maya J copy looks to be identical in every way, apart from the logo, so it's quite likely that Rokkomann (brand owner/possible manufacturer of Maya) were responsible for these Columbus instruments. I'll stop now because one of the rules of BC is that one should not post material which is "tortuous" and I think I possibly am. But you get the gist. Hopefully. J.

Sad, sad, sad, sad. What a f*cking mess. Wish I hadn't looked. Jon.

Some things just don't shift on BC - there was a nice Korean-made Ibanez SR clone on for £50 or swap for P/J parts. It was on for about a month before it sold. I think a lot of people are very conservative in their tastes - I definitely know better than to try & sell my Lace Helix here... Jon.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1389095723' post='2329756'] Hondo made a neck-thru P Bass? [/quote] They didn't - Geoff's bass was a Satellite. I bought it off him & found the logo under what looked like an inch of black Hammerite under the headstock! J.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389096221' post='2329767'] In the mid 70s my parents bought me a Kimbara branded acoustic guitar. Six months later my friend also got one which was identical in almost every way except his said "Grant" on the headstock. Obviously from the same factory in Japan but imported by two different companies. [/quote] Yep - Grant was a music shop in Glasgow who imported & distributed their own line. My first bass was a Grant. Awful, it was. J.

I still think that [b]IF[/b] it's structurally OK under all the crap, and [b]IF[/b] the electronics are a straightforward fix, then it's just about worth £400. Personally though I wouldn't touch it without having a good, proper look at it. J.

[quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1389061166' post='2329543'] Weren't Satelite basses made by the same people? Horrible things. Amazed they trade hands for so much money nowadays. [/quote] Satellite was imported by the same company (FCN Music in Tonbridge) but they were Korean-made and a lower priced, even cheaper & nastier range. Columbus was FCN's middle range, with the very nice quality Kimbara brand at the top. J.

What they said! Hoshino Gakki (parent company of Cimar & Ibanez) sourced from several factories, not sure who made Cimar but Ibanez came from Fujigen. The factories supplied stock shots of the instruments so the same pics of the same unbranded instruments turn up in catalogues for various different brands - eg find an old Antoria catalogue and the pictures are the same as Ibanez for the same year. Jon.

Some of the later ones were Japanese-made and very nice - Flat Eric on here has one, I believe. However, a lot of them - most, in fact - were Korean-made in the early/mid 70s, at a time when Korean instrument manufacture was not good at all. With these, expect a ply body, ultra-cheap hardware/electrics and potentially dodgy fret work. These often turn up for well under £100 on Ebay. Any chance you can grab a pic of the one you're interested in? The different models are easy to ID from components & headstock design. Jon.

Dunno where the OP got the idea that Columbus were made by Matsumoku. Ebay experts, perhaps? Anyway, they absolutely weren't. Not sure who did make them - maybe Rokkomann/Maya but definitely not Mat. I've had a few and none of them were ply - bodies tended to be veneered butcher-block - not great quality but a step up from ply. Clear finish ones were decent solid timber. Not great basses but not awful - like most lowish-end 70s JapCrap a decent setup will address most issues - I guess back then most of us just played them straight out of the box. The weedy round-end pickups were another matter - not surprising a good few turn up with DiMarzios fitted. Jon.

[quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1389032681' post='2329091'] The benefit of 'starter' instruments that are of a quality unimaginable 35 years ago, and Internet based 'monkey see, monkey do' lessons perhaps. [/quote] I think you have a point - usually the songwriting's nowhere near the standard of the musicianship, and a lot of young bands seem to slavishly imitate their heroes rather than take inspiration from them. I wonder if the lower level of technical ability back in the day meant we had to be more creative because we lacked the technique to imitate the bands we wanted to be. J.