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No one has mentioned the style back then was for a different sound than we tend to strive for today. You never heard toppy, metallic sounds back then. It was very thumpy type bass that was the norm , at least in my experience. I listen to old songs and think, I would never be happy with that indescribable rumble ! I realise a lot of that would be down to the gear available, but I think we should allow that most players looked for that type of sound. It was just en vogue.

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441987338' post='2863594'] That's a strange thing to say. It's kind of self evident. Better gear is better. Until you define what 'better' is, it's a silly statement. [/quote] If I have to spell it out , he said that the more expensive gear sounded better! The name brands. To me he completely disagreed with the rest of his statement !

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441286405' post='2857556'] I know we like to sit around and chew the fat about gear - What's best for gigging, what's best for recording, what's best for this amount of money, what's best for metal. And I've long since held the view that, actually, nobody cares. The majority of an audience when you play live won't care. Other musicians might, but are you writing music to please other musicians? I had the experience recently of playing with many fantastic musicians, who played on various qualities of instruments. The instruments were completely sidelined by sheer raw talent and songwriting/performing ability. Nobody was interested in talking about which year Fender stopped making their switches out of bakelite, or what bass is best for metal. Everyone got stuck into the music without pretentiousness. So what compels us to still talk about what instruments and backline we need to play the crow & fiddle on a gloomy Saturday evening? Does it make any difference to the punters? What if you spent £500 on a bass, and £500 on an amp - Wouldn't that be good enough? And in video format - metal guy yells and swears (that's your warning) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSiv45KEFGY[/media] [/quote] Right at the start he says the better gear sounded better, so even though no one cares in the audience , you're gonna sound better with good gear!

I have only found this thread and can't add anything that hasn't been said already apart from agreeing that pushing mids is the way to cut through. The sound you get in your bedroom or wherever you practise, might sound thin, but in a band situation, it will cut through without being oppressive. Also , have a word with the vocalist and tell him that the band is a sum of parts and each is important, so telling someone to turn down so they can't hear them self, is not conducive to a pleasant audio experience !

And why should you need to apologise for wanting the best gear ? I'm not going to think , oh, I'm playing the pub tonight, I'll take the cheap gear so I don't look too poseurish, oh, next week we are playing a function, better take the good gear. I take my best gear for every gig and I couldn't give a toss what anyone thinks of my choice. Surely, they are more interested in what kind of a noise you are making anyway!

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1441493259' post='2859325'] If it offends your sensibilities to see an average player in a pub band with a Wal hanging from his strap, I'd suggest you haven't got enough worries in your life. Lucky man! [/quote] Im pretty sure this sums up my stance on this matter!

Obviously, you are going to consider how a guitar feels just as much as how it sounds but I also consider how it looks as one of the most important factors! I mean a Hohner violin bass might feel and sound amazing, but I'm not going to even think about buying one!

[quote name='Bikenbass' timestamp='1441360108' post='2858205'] The band I saw last night at Krazy Horse in Bury St Edmunds played almost all the songs mentioned in this thread. Great band with great enthusiasm so no complaints from me. Had to laugh when when they struck up with Sweet Home Alabama though and had thoughts of enraged Bass Chatters. [/quote] There's no doubt, if a band is good enough , they can get away with playing more or less anything. There's plenty songs I hate, but if someone was to perform them flawlessly, I would have to hold my hand up and say, well done!

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1441364529' post='2858264'] I wonder how much of it might be "the trouble with audiences"? Some people are happy just to hear the song played well using whatever palette of sounds is available to the performer, while others seem to judge the quality of the performance by how closely it resembles the record. The latter group might have to adjust their expectations a little when attending small venue gigs. [/quote] We played a gig once when the bass was cutting out more or less all the time in the first set. The dance floor was full and when we came off, lots of folk were saying " that was great" I deduced that, as long as you have a beat, recognisable singing and a guitar making near enough tuneful noises, everyone's happy !

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1441350309' post='2858083'] Saxon were old even when they were young! Biff must be older than Lemmy? [/quote] I seen Saxon in 1980 on the wheels of steel tour. I think Biff has one of those unfortunate faces that looked old even then. They were bloody good though!

Pointless argument really. Some people like expensive, known brands, some people can't see the point. Everyone's different.

I think you should leave it as it is and maybe lend it to me on a kind of long term give it kind of way

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1441299485' post='2857754'] I bought the most expensive bass i could afford when i started, because i know that i will keep learning to play to the best of my ability. If i had spent £300 on all the gear, i would give up fairly easily, compared to if i lay out a large chunk of cash on any thing that takes time to learn. Probably not the best bass for the money, but i like it, and that is all that counts for me. As for business sense on spending £2000 on a guitar. It is something you will be playing in your spare time and takes up a lot of your leisure time, so why not treat yourself to the best you can afford [/quote] THIS! Who buys cheap gear because you are "probably" only going to play dives? What happens if you suddenly get a booking for a better joint ? I like to have the best I can get because I have earned it by working my way through all these dives and plenty nice places along the way. I certainly didn't select cheaper bass for cheaper venue.

I myself, use American Fenders,Sandberg, Gibson, Ampeg amp and a Barefaced speaker cab. Partly because I'm in a position to afford good gear now after scrimping for years, and partly because I know it's better than cheap gear. Further to my earlier post, we have a very good PA which gives an accurate FOH sound when cranked. I also agree with the people who say, it's good to play with decent gear. It makes you feel and play better. Why would you deliberately use cheaper gear because you didn't want to be a snob?

In my experience, I find that unless you are playing pretty quietly, or at the other end of the scale, using professional equipment, the instrument and amplification you are using makes very little noticeable difference. If you are in a small venue and you can hear the instrument, then yes, a good guitar or amp/speaker will be noticeable. If you start ramping up the volume, no one really hears whether it's a Fender P or a Gibson Thunderbird. I know some will disagree, but it's only when you are using high end PA gear that your guitar sound will be accurately reproduced FOH

The thing is, a really good song can be stripped down to play even on a single acoustic guitar. The band should try to do their own version of said song and embrace the "spaces" left. I do, however agree that modern pop songs are just about impossible to replicate live as they sound in the studio, which is why so many of these artists mime to backing tracks

Loads of good systems out there now mate. Have a look on you tube

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1441124660' post='2856249'] Cant get you outta my head. Anything by Bryan Adams Anything by Dire Staits [/quote] I'm with you one hundred percent on this pal!

I can recommend Lemmy's autobiography very much. That guy has lived the Rock and roll lifestyle to the hilt and I wish him the best of health but to be honest, if you burn the candle at both ends, something's gotta give. Maybe it's time for him to take it easier. Maybe one off shows instead of tours. Just a thought cos I'm sure lots of people would be disappointed !

What is happening to the fans that have paid good money for three songs ? I feel for Lemmy, but you can't keep letting fans down. If it was a one off, I'm sure people would forgive the band, but if it keeps happening, people won't risk buying tickets. I wish Lemmy a speedy recovery , cos he is a legend!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1440846403' post='2854279'] Isolated bass tracks are never meant to be heard in isolation. Criticising a bass player's technique or whatever is just pointless, as the end result is all that is intended to be heard. And if that sounds good, then it IS good. It's all the little nuances, rattles, timing errors, pushing and pulling and even mistakes that make great bands great. It's not just the bass doing this, it's every member of the band and it's what makes music like this greater than the sum of its parts. As already said above, this is why modern programmed digital music has no soul because it's perfectly produced and perfectly in time. It has no humanity about it whatsoever and relies almost entirely on production tricks to make it in any way interesting. [/quote] Couldn't agree more, which is precisely why I'm not worried about the keeping time app. Music is feel, not manufactured ! Well some of it is manufactured, but the less said about that, the better!

I have an American Std P and an American Std J. I also have a Jap J and Mex P and I have to say, the American ones are the best. I don't know what it is, they just sound better Maybe it's the pick ups, maybe it's the wood, maybe it's the hardware , but they do sound better!

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1440699157' post='2853132'] Have you had any lessons with an experienced bass player ? they may see if elements of your playing could be causing the problems. Once that has been ruled out, if the issues still continue, that would be the time to see GP / physio etc. Reason for that process is; if your bass playing situation is causing the problem,the GP etc will treat the symptoms, but they won't be treating the cause [/quote] This is what I was going to say. It could easily be your technique that is causing stress. Some of us that have been playing for years, forget that bad posture or attitude when holding your pick or neck, can cause pain. We have got so used to doing it right that we can't remember how to do it wrong. If you were standing in front of a seasoned player, they might be able to spot something. I'm not saying this is your problem, but it's worth checking out !