drTStingray

I think this is a very complex subject. Many bass parts have hooks in them that cleverly form part of the allure of the song. If you don't play them you can lose part of the effect - as previously stated, this may be something quite complex (listen to the elaborate bass fills in Wake Me Up Before You Go (Go) by Wham) or something as simple as playing the upper octave of a 5th rather than the lower one played on the previous seven patterns, on the last bass pattern before entering a chorus, middle eight or even instrument solo. If you don't play them the song loses, sometimes a minor element, sometimes a major one. I'm as guilty as anyone - I do quite a lot of depping and people are in the habit of asking me to cover, then at the last minute saying, for instance, oh by the way we've added Kid Charlemaine by Steely Dan (usually something much simpler but you get the drift) to the set....... which I then listen to and work out but don't have time to do it thoroughly!! In other instances I just don't pick up the nuances until I've listened very carefully several times. So I end up approximating, or possibly interpreting (playing additional fills I've made up) sometimes. Now there's approximating and approximating - I was once in the habit of playing with a jamming band which was good fun, often doing standards, which taught me a lot but one day they played Lovely Day by Bill Withers - the guy who led the band asked me why I played that strange set of notes in the verses - insisting that their incorrect and simplistic version was copied from sheet music - well if it was, the sheet music was not based on the original!!! I then realised this band did not actually learn songs but made them up often from memory and ranged from fairly close to horrendously inaccurate!! Whether more than a couple of people in the audience would have noticed is a debatable point. I think there are elements of laziness, interpretation or simple errors across cover music - even in tribute bands. If you think the example of Pink Floyd discussed is anal, try playing in a Cliff and the Shadows tribute (I don't any longer) - it was good fun but rather worrying having the accuracy of one's playing scrutinised not only by bass players, but drummers, singers and horror of horrors, guitarists or even non musician aficionados. I saw Pino interviewed once and talking about his fabulous work with the Who, he was saying he noticed in one part of a specific song the air bass players in the crowd were playing high notes - so he re listened to the original and picked up something he'd missed - so it happens to world greats as well as mere mortals! And finally, does anyone else play the bass balls up in Jean Genie - I always do and it sounds wrong any other way to me!! I'm now a firm believer that you should play what you and the band are happy with, and not get too hung up. It may be as or even more important to get the groove, feel and instrument interaction to work rather than an exact note for note replica - something that really dawned on me during my foray into the Cliff and the Shads scene. Some people strive for complete accuracy but lost any shred of excitement in their playing in so doing.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1456963861' post='2994152'] Niggles? Blue [/quote] I've read other niggles about V7 controls - but why is this thread not in bass guitars??

Strange old thing, but I never ever gave the weight of an instrument a second thought until I read about it on here - and even then I only really became conscious of it when using a quite heavy example of an SR5 rather far into my 5th decade. Back in the 70s, I recall wanting a certain bass type so when I had saved the money for it I went to a shop with one in stock - tried it to check it worked etc, and bought it. The idea of trying a batch of them never occurred to me (or anyone else I know/knew). Yes, back pain is no joke to those of us who suffer, but is the subject not, like a lot of other subjects on this forum, not simply indicative of the demographic (the upper side of middle age being fairly well represented?), and largely irrelevant to anyone else? And similarly, the adage that one must try any instrument before buying is only really feasible if you're a purchaser of one brand (for basses) or two or three for guitars, and are willing to accept someone else's choice of colour and spec. I generally have to order what I want sight unseen otherwise I don't get - I suspect lots of other people are in the same boat!! Not everyone plays THAT brand of bass - indeed these days I rarely see them in use except of the tele or at 'name artist' gigs. Spookily my heaviest bass (that SR5) has the most body resonance and deepest, most vibrant tone of all my basses - when I first used it for gigs it gave me mild stomach ache ......... which I subsequently realised was caused by the body resonance, particularly the upper horn. I must have got used to it because I don't have that problem now - and because it's such a well balanced bass on a wide strap, whilst I'm standing up, the weight actually has little relevance to the playing comfort anyway. There, I've contradicted at least three known internet bass facts ......... as we all know body wood has no bearing on tone, heavy basses are no good, and playing comfort is entirely derived from the weight of the instrument!!!!

[quote name='police squad' timestamp='1456932815' post='2993715'] Thanks for the info is £700 a good price? [/quote] I agree with Gareth, sounds an excellent price to me - and the piezo is discontinued - I have it on my Bongo 5HH and it adds another sound dimension completely - pretty rare on Stingrays though (there's a 5 string in the for sale on here at the moment) Those white Stingrays are great, and they do age to a nice cream colour reasonably quickly.

[quote name='keefbaker' timestamp='1456933943' post='2993739'] However I've not seen my dream Stingray of the unlined stealth HH fretless appear on here yet. [/quote] You'll be quite lucky to see one without ordering it as they're pretty rare - Bass Central had one a couple of years back - stunning, as they have an ebony board also - so invisible (ish) except for the headstock decal in white. Also an awesome fretless in H form - so even better in HH!!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1456784779' post='2992340'] It's rumoured that pickup magnets actually make pickups sound better as they weaken over time. Not sure if there's anything in it. [/quote] I'd heard that as well, amongst lots of other things about old or aging instruments. The words mellower sounding seem to crop up quite a bit as well. It's all very subjective - weaker pick ups may lead to one person perceiving an old bass to have a mellow sound whilst someone else may think it just sounds thin, or even wearing out. If I had one of these lovely old beasts I'd also be scared to have any repairs done for fear of devaluing the instrument - but on the positive side, apart from the highly unlikely scenario it was a minter, I'd be less scared of dinging it. Im really dubious they get better with age but also succumb to the vintage gas from time to time - I played a pre EB Stingray a while back and was highly impressed (I did actually own a new one back ing he 70s/80s) but the gas evaporated when I got home again and played my Classic Ray, 32 yrs it's junior, but itself already 5 yrs old.

V nice. Thanks for posting.

EBMM will give you all details without going public on the forum if you email their customer services with the serial number.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1456250126' post='2987103'] I'd keep clear of Encore as they're a bit weighty. [/quote] You have s different experience from me - bought my 12 yo lefty an LH Encore P bass to learn on - came with a practice amp strap and cable - he did learn to play and he still has it after 15 years - as back up to various other basses including a Stingray. Sounds like a Precision but I think the neck's more of a Jazz width and it's really light - mind you it's only us oldies who worry about bass weights I think. It was never a consideration for me in my youth!! Encore, Vintage etc etc all make great entry level basses and you can often get them in local shops so can try them out etc etc.

Looks OK to me as well - I suggest you get the serial number and check out with EBMM Customer Services.

Happy birthday I will give you my current GAS and agonisation list which may provide some additional ideas!! Number 1) is because I want an EBMM in that colour and the Bongo is most fitting - I already have a 5 but a 4 would be awesome for playability in my mind - number 2) came about from reading about/hearing a pink refin one on Talkbass plus a mate has one on order, plus I'm a big Mark King fan - the Wal has interested me for ages in second hand form but 2) led to 3) and im a big Alan Spenner fan. 1) Bongo 4HH in chilli red - new 2) Jaydee Supernatural Classic - new build 3) Wal Mk1 new build with padauk facings 4) pre CBS Jazz, Olympic White with matching headstock and clay (Lino.....) dots - old 5) as 4) - Precision - no matching headstock - old 6) Stingray 40th Anniversary - new

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1456100246' post='2985464'] Agreed and hats off to whoever's idea it was. The white LED's are just perfect for it. Little too blingy for my taste, but absolutely right for that bass and it's owner. I've recently come around to the idea that I might like to try a Sterling. There's a lovely looking BFR on eBay right now for ~£2.5k, but it's a bit too far away from me to go and try it. [/quote] Yeah the BFR Sterlings are nice, but a little pricy.

[quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1456091563' post='2985361'] The John East MM pre-amp is amazing, based on the original MM pre-amp [/quote] I've heard it's very good but not been tempted to swap out the electronics on any of my Stingrays. Which version is it based on - apparently there were several iterations between 1976 and 79 - I think I read somewhere it was based on John East's own Stingray (76 or 77?)

The 3 band gives far more flexibility especially in a live situation, for instance in rooms with difficult acoustics. It's also more refined as the filters take out boomy frequencies which can occur with the 2 band. However the 2 band is also a fine EQ and makes some classic sounds - used my 2 band Sabre Friday night in a blues/funk gig to good effect - would have liked the mid control a couple of times when the guitarists got all crunchy and filled all the space though - I suspect it didn't matter to the audience but made it difficult for me to hear myself at those moments.

I can't get over people moaning about the tone ....... what are you on?? Not really to my taste either, but crikey, that is amazing from a number of angles.

The Stingray looks great. EBMM do custom jobs but only for the likes of Tony Levin and other artists. They've done some nice ones for Randy Jackson in the past (including an HH Sterling with white pick up covers - only available to mere mortals for the single H type Sterling and Stingray pick up, or SR5 single H with a white pick guard)

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1455994233' post='2984427'] Some of the places Mrs ET and I enjoyed while in Liverpool and environs ... [url="http://www.everymanplayhouse.com/whats-on/i-am-thomas-a-brutal-comedy-with-songs"]http://www.everymanp...medy-with-songs[/url] [url="http://www.saltdogslims.com/"]http://www.saltdogslims.com/[/url] [url="http://www.thegrapesliverpool.co.uk/"]http://www.thegrapesliverpool.co.uk/[/url] [url="http://www.maray.co.uk/"]http://www.maray.co.uk/[/url] [url="http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/walker/"]http://www.liverpool....org.uk/walker/[/url] [url="http://liverpool.gov.uk/libraries/find-a-library/central-library/"]http://liverpool.gov...entral-library/[/url] [url="http://www.salthousetapas.co.uk/"]http://www.salthousetapas.co.uk/[/url] [url="http://www.johnlewis.com/our-shops/liverpool"]http://www.johnlewis...shops/liverpool[/url] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbre_Island"]https://en.wikipedia...i/Hilbre_Island[/url] [/quote] This is on a par with Mrs DrT and I's visit to Stratford on Avon last year - we did absolutely nothing related to Shakespeare, theatre etc - the Beatles are to Liverpool as Shakespeare is to Stratford as the Black Country Museum is to Dudley. As for the Beatles and their relevance, I was at infant school when Can't Buy Me Love was in the charts - at playtime, Beatles bubble gum cards became legal tender - my friends and I could sing all of the Beatles hits of the time (including the twangy guitar solos) - the only other group I recall having this accolade was the Swinging Blue Jeans. Other bands of that time which were completely off the radar included the Shadows - something from a previous era which my parents and my friend's parents liked so were about as uncool as Perry Como and others as far as we were concerned. Even Gerry and the Pacemakers paled when they did Ferry Across the Mersey at the time!! I would class myself as someone who grew up with the Beatles and therefore they have a big relevance musically for me - I suspect the same for many of my generation and those a little older. I've only ever been to Liverpool once in my life and that was to Anfield, somewhere else which is synonymous with Liverpool!!

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1455641510' post='2981022'] I dont think there is any science to this. In my experience in buying vintage instruments, if its 100% original, then its exactly that. So if there are changed parts, then, if known, they should be declared. Its not always easy to tell with screws etc though, but it depends what you are looking for, or what instrument you are looking at. Prices will reflect originality, and some items affect more than others. Its certainly possible to find original, unmolested 50+ year old instruments with perfectly working components, and these are desirable. The exception, from my experience, is original factory strings. I've seen a few instruments claiming to have original factory strings, but personally have not seen this add any value, as its almost impossible to prove, and, its highly unlikely too, especially on a worn instrument. Someone else used the 'car tyre' analogy, which i would tend to agree with, although probably easier to prove an original tyre, than original string on something 50+ years old. If its not a highly collectible instrument, then a changed pot, or bridge, or strap button is unlikely to affect value too much. [/quote] I agree with all of this - also remember that (in the car tyre analogy) rubber perishes over time - I recall having to change 5 yr old rear car tyres for an MOT which were not worn at all but the walls had perished (showing cracks). This type of thing can be true of intruments - I've seen pictures of a pre 57 Precision and also a late 70s Stingray both with totally rusted strings (barely hanging on the instrument) and other parts deteriorated - knowing how old fashioned electrical flex perishes I could see this happening to 60s and earlier instruments. On this basis I sometimes find it hard to believe the alleged 'totally original' status quoted for some instruments, particularly if they've been played and haven't been stored away or on display in climate controlled conditions. Modern materials are far more durable. I would prefer to have a completely original instrument but would not turn away, for instance a bass which has had a replacement tuning peg so long as the new one is of the correct period and supplied by the manufacturer. I would not accept a refin unless I was deliberately looking for one, but even a refret or re shot fretless board (provided done professionally and with the correct materials (fret type) wouldn't worry me too much - if I was paying top dollar for a vintage bass I might prefer something more original if available. In essence, items which are subject to normal wear and tear should be fair game but more extensive mods (eg fret less board when it was built with a maple fretted one), or a different coloured body, would put me off. That's just my perspective though - others may have completely different views.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1455195718' post='2976901'] Just smashing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz1bJtV4KkM [/quote] Fabulous - would be great to see this line up live. A shame they didn't keep some of the hooks from the original.

It seems to have its advantages and disadvantages - ours is owned by the drummer who is occasionally doing much greater things and is depped. This leaves the lead singer in charge and it has been known to take 15 mins for him and the rest of us to work out how to adjust a mike which is verging on feedback - everyone groans and says what price a manual fader. In other words, as with any IT it takes a while to learn to use it and as there is often the need for an urgent tweak, it can be a hinderence if you aren't skilled with it. An advantage (in a pub) is that someone can take the iPod to the back of the room and mix the sound quite accurately (when the pa mixer would normally be with the band at the front).

Groove (alt) - the music slot on a vinyl record (music playing medium), the width and depth of which is dictated by the level of bass - when filled with other instruments it gets shallow and bass less. Hence bass players are crucial to and control the groove and other people sometimes fill it with fluff .......

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1455098764' post='2975777'] Muting was my problem with 5 strings. I found floating thumb pretty much essential. [/quote] + 1 - I find it essential (I use my left hand thumb over the top of the fretboard when slapping a 5 for the same reason)

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1455117897' post='2976095'] Space: The thing that Bass players leave to add feel and groove which guitarists then feel they need to fill COS IT'S THERE!! [/quote] Or the keyboard fills with left hand playing because he thinks the bass player has gone to sleep or forgotten the part

Crafted in Japan - made in Japan by a craftsman; as opposed to made in Japan (team built in Japan)