drTStingray

[quote name='Shonks' timestamp='1446473465' post='2899592'] what's wrong with the pink jazz?? [/quote] That's an unusual Jazz bridge pick up?! Nice colour bass.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1446680465' post='2901503'] I erm............don't actually like anything he's done , not my thing at all [/quote] Hmm interesting - I don't think I've ever come across another bass player who didn't like Bernard Edwards..... I was merely pointing out he probably didn't use that technique on many of their (Rogers/Edwards songs).

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1446649408' post='2901134'] He had a very distinctive way of playing, using his thumb and finger like a pick. That no doubt contributed to his sound. [/quote] On tracks like Happy Man, Everybody Dance and Dance Dance Dance this can be clearly heard. However he didn't always do this. Notice how close to the bridge he plays on the video (sadly his last performance - and using the Stingray - and sounding exactly like himself despite illness) - fabulous sound (using Trace Elliott plus his 2 band 1977 Stingray) http://youtu.be/M1APFyc_QtQ

Birdland was the first time I heard Jaco and I presumed the initial melody was one of Zawinul's keyboard parts - I was somewhat blown away when I saw Weather Report live and realised it was false harmonics. The thing about Jaco's playing was it being a fusion of contemporary R and B bass style with jazz and rock. But fundamentally an R and B groove. You would not need in the 70s to delve far into R and B or bands like the Crusaders, Herbie Hancock etc to find an upfront bass style (less thump, more zing or pop) characterised by an aggressive but pleasant playing style and phenomenal groove. Remember this was the 70s when you could actually buy music where the bass could be felt and heard - the antithesis of the 60s - so not much place for flatwound strings (although early Stingrays came with them - but the EQ could make them as cutting as you needed). Jaco stood apart owing to his broader musicianship and composition skills, along with developing his own take on R and B and disco style grooves, and a specific sound (although Alphonso Johnson was not far from the sound around the time of Black Market etc). Like others, I find some of his music rather inaccessible, but still marvel at the likes of Teen Town, A Remark You Made; Elegamt People. Suffice to say Jacos was one of THE bass sounds to have (amongst others) back in the late 70s - still is for me - the 70s/80s was a golden age of and for bass players as far as I'm concerned!!

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1446450431' post='2899370'] Supply all the gear for everyone else to thrash? [/quote] Sounds about right - when I did this I provided an LM3 with 2x10 HF cabinet, and a slightly careworn Musicman Stingray - beware the nights no bass players turn up because you will end up playing all night. Several used to turn up to the one I did and they all played my bass. I used to try and get the amp set and the bass set to provide a decent generic sound - rarely did any bass player have a clue how to set an EQ on bass or amp (something I've also found when I've visited other jam sessions - underpowered bass amps with the bass on full on the EQ for example). Dependent on what sort of jam it is, it's always useful to be able to play a few guitar hero songs - eg thin lizzy ones like whole lot of Rosie, boys are back in town etc; sweet child of mine; famous AC/DC stuff if people can sing it, All Right Now; Cream; maybe a little Zeppelin, Quo etc. It really depends on who turns up; 12 bars are always popular, and maybe Beatles songs (Come Together springs to mind, often in very strange keys!) It can be great fun and you may well meet people who you end up in bands or musical projects with.

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1445941369' post='2895519'] then.... he went to his proper Fender Japan MM Model And he also had a MusicMan Stingray 4 as a back up bass [/quote] I'm pretty sure his regular 4 string was made in America in 1977...... and the Musicman is a Sterling fretless piezo - which he now seems to use as his main fretless bass!!

i wish I'd have been there!!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1445781718' post='2894103'] Some amps/rigs ARE too powerful for the room...My DB750 is... is will rattle the back walls and the drummer is going green. This is the place for the comparivtily 'weedy' 'Class D's .. [/quote] I agree with the first part but as a long time user of an Acoustic 371 with a 1x15 extension cab (from the late 70s), my Markbass LM3 plus 2 X 2x10s sounds more powerful and a damned sight more audible (both from where I stand and from the room). The problem with valve amps is they break up into distortion way before reaching their max output - great for guitar but pants for bass for anything more technical than crunching root 8ths - one of the reasons 70s group's bass players often didn't sound much like the records. It's the main reason why many people stopped using them in the 70s and solid state took over. A very high powered valve amp would not only be too loud for most small gigs but will break your back as well - just like moving a Hammond B3 and Leslie unit around (as we did in the 70s!!). Much as I love Pinos sound with John Mayer, I think he does most of his recording with an ABM and also uses them live at times. These days I believe fridges are for cooling food and drink!!! Love to play through one sometime for fun though (provided I don't have to move it!!)

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1445814621' post='2894496'] Agree with the majority of your post, but not this - everyone should be wearing ear protection when playing. Even if you think your band is quiet, it's still going to be loud enough to damage your hearing. I'm not usually sensible, but I really don't regret using plugs for the last four decades - some of my contemporaries did not and it's really not at all rock 'n' roll to be deaf or have debilitating tinnitus. /lecture [/quote] I agree wholeheartedly Discreet. My point was simply that guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs can often be immune to the amount of noise they're making. I guess the sensible answer is for the whole band to be wearing ear plugs.

I have concluded, based on playing with a whole range of guitarists, that they hear music differently in terms of band mix than most other people and most if not all play too loud. Some have painfully screechy tone particularly at the front of the audience. I'm talking small club or pub venue type places, and those with very hard acoustics (extensive wood panelling for instance) make it worse, although outdoor gigs are less of a problem. It would certainly help for your guitarist to elevate his amp although if he has hearing deficiency it will probably just inflict more screech on the band. I definitely think there's a issue in bands of individuals (mostly guitarists, singers and drummers) requiring too much in the mix so that the mix sounds unbalanced (compared to a recorded sound) and others turn up to compensate - I've noticed in the band I play in that if I turn up the mid range on my bass (so becoming slightly more clear and prominent) the guitarist usually turn his amp up a few seconds later to regain a position at the head of the mix - regardless of whether the guitar should be up there at that point. Then when he drops out of rhythm for a solo the band suddenly becomes a well balanced unit. Guitarists also seem to eq sometimes with ludicrously boosted bass and treble and scooped mid range (on querying this I was told that this is the classic eq arrangement for that particular type of gear). As I say I'm pretty sure it's all about perception (and maybe a little ego). No easy answer but another way you could go is to get someone independent to either mix the band or at least comment. Added to that elevating the guitar amp. A word of warning with the latter, if hearing is compromised it will possibly make matters worse - I played in a band where the guitarist did exactly this - but had badly compromised hearing and could obviously hear no upper frequencies. It just hurt everyone else's hearing in the band. Guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs are also bad news in my experience as well!!!!

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1445418221' post='2891264'] Doc Stingray & Rob Afraid I've got it worse cause I'd like my JG back. Normally I convince myself I don't mind selling it,other times who the hell am I trying to kid [/quote] Now I lament my pre EB Ray which went a similar way but if it had been a Wal I'd be totally depressed. So there's at least three of us in the market for a JG!!!

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1445408272' post='2891194'] Does anyone know who played bass on the Avalon album by Roxy and particularly the track Jealous Guy - from the notes and style it sounds like Spenner to me and likely a Wal?? [/quote] I've since found Alan Spenner played on all but three tracks on Avalon and him and the Wal bass is quoted as being partially responsible for the sound of Roxy in that era. Jealous Guy was a single and it sounds like Spenner on Wal on it.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1445547658' post='2892398'] Loads more info here if you're interested... http://walbasshistory.blogspot.co.uk They came in a floral finish too... ;-) [/quote] Oo nice colour - having looked at your interesting blog site, I see that's the colour of John Gustafson's bass - I could see him playing this in the Ian Gillan band. Do you know whether those leather pick guards deteriorate over time? I seem to remember Alan Spenner's was in a dark colour - in fact looked rather like the darker coloured Mark 1

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1445445054' post='2891551'] Funnily enough when I bought mine from Allbang and Strummit in 1990ish I was choosing between a Jaydee, the Wal (£450 and £500) and an Alembic (£600). And that Wal is now one of the only things I own that's actually increased in value. The Alembic may have shown a similar increase, but definitely not the Jaydee! [/quote] Spookily enough, I used to rate these as the pinnacle of bass - they're still pretty close for me although Ritters etc are in the mix. To put the prices in perspective I sold my pre EB Stingray in around 87 for £450 IIRC. I was well pleased at the time to get around 25% more than I'd paid for it!

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' timestamp='1439503354' post='2843489'] Are there any bridges out therer with a built in mute. Rockenbacker and ernie ball have them. are there any others. I'm sourcing parts for a precision build and would definitely be needing some muting capacity. In Holland you have Elio Martin guitars that sell The Bass Mute, but I get no reply to my emails. [/quote] Fender Mustang (though it's a very similar concept to the Musicman one). A chunk of foam rubber also does the trick - I've used those scouring pads before also (scourer one side and sponge the other) - careful with your bass finish though - when I used one I put it on for certain tracks only and it's easy to put it in the wrong way up and scratch the bass....

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I am a great fan of the late Alan Spenner, listed in your tracks with a Roxymusic track. I loved Alan's work on Kokomo's albums in the 70s - such greasy soul/funk (on a Precision) with a feel not unlike Pino's. I was lucky enough to see him in his Wal days playing at the Roundhouse in a Kokomo reunion concert in the late 70s - now if he sounded good on a Presicion, the Wal sound was a revelation - absolutely fantastic and really displayed the finer nuances of his playing as well as sounding fat and funky - and I further became a Wal fan on seeing Percy Jones' fretless magic with Brand X in that era. I've since played one quite recently at some length in the Bass Gallery and what a bass!! Feel and sounds are perfect - a bass which really creates GAS for me!! Now the wait to save up enough and for one that really appeals visually (the range of facings really look quite different). Ideally I'd love a JG one (as Alan Spenner and John Gustavson) but as there were only 46 made this is probably a tall order. Does anyone know who played bass on the Avalon album by Roxy and particularly the track Jealous Guy - from the notes and style it sounds like Spenner to me and likely a Wal??

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1444919702' post='2887358'] Is it any good for metal? [/quote] How many do you have to try before you find 'the one'

I played my first one in a shop in 197cough cough aherm.......... well you can tell how long ago it was cos it was brand new and stood next to it was a brand new Fender Bass V - I remember thinking that was mighty cool as I'd heard Jack Bruce had dabbled with one - at that time Fender could do no wrong basswise in my eyes and it was years before I realised they were capable of releasing monstrous flops like the bass V and even that peculiar baritone bass V1 thing beloved of Shadows officianados, responsible for Duane Eddy thick twang like melodies on Jet Harris pieces and even by Hank B himself once or twice. Anyway back to Precisions - I really really really wanted one of these back in the day but unfortunately never actually got one, using a Jazz copy for years - probably wasting money on booze and ciggies so I could never afford one. I have spent a sum total of probably a dozen hours in the last 10 years or so trying out countless of them but I still haven't found 'the one' - I have come close but no - unfortunately once or twice I have progressed to trying other makes on the same occasion and thinking to myself - hmmm I'm not so sure I actually NEED a Precision as it is no longer 1968. I'm sure I will buy one one day though!! So I'm not sure you have an obsession or not - when I was obsessed with them I hadn't even noticed my two favourite bass players Jack Bruce and Andy Fraser didn't play them, such was the allure of the Precision (and playing an EB3 NEVER entered my head) - and I also thought that many tracks with nice bass on them were Precisions and it turned out they were Rickenbackers shock horror!! So maybe it is an obsession but who cares as they are good basses - phenomenal in some hands (Alan Spenner, Alan Gorrie, Larry Taylor to name three - before even thinking about the Motown guys). I dunno perhaps we should all just get out a little more....... i think I'm addicted to bass rather than any specific make and maybe that is an obsession in itself.

I have had to play this several times in a band I dep with. I generally use an HH three band Stingray but I did once use a Classic 2 band for it - it makes little difference to be honest and it always sounds fine without effects - one of my band mates picks out the core chords (probably on the first note of each bar) which adds a little soft backdrop. I did try it on a Stingray fretless and whilst sounding great, did not reflect the sound in the recording as well as a fretted Stingray, and in any case, I thought better of trying it live - my fingers are too fat and I'm too impatient to play accurate notes above 12th fret on a fretless!!!

[quote name='kevvo66' timestamp='1443567949' post='2875901'] Not the basses that did my back in , it was the heavy rigs , thank goodness for lightweight cabs we have now [/quote] It's surprising how many people who extol the virtues of lightweight basses hump around gargantuan valve amps and 8 x 10 cabinets. I'm with the OP on this - being concerned about the weight of instruments had never crossed my mind until reading about it on bass forums. I have come across one or two very obviously heavy basses but most are within a pound and a half of each other in weight anyway. However I can see the issue for people with bad backs. I suspect you only get a real choice if you're buying something that is very plentiful in shops or are willing to shell out a lot of money until you find the "right" one. Something most people wouldn't do if ordering a Stingray, Custom Shop Fender or Alembic, say. I have found there is another issue with light Basses. I recently bought a USA Sub Stingray 5 which is extremely light - however I suspect the weight difference is in the body - and as a result it has chronic neck dive when playing seated - compare with my ash SR5 which is heavier and balances better - however on a strap both are fine - the SUB is more comfortable on a long set though.

I think string choice makes a vast difference on any bass but especially fretless. I have a 3 band fretless Stingray and have put Ernie Ball Cobalt flatwounds on it recently. The sound and string attack is quite different but it produces tons of mwah (though always has). The mid range control brings out the upper register well in a band situation. This demonstrates a Stingray fretless recorded well (it ain't me - it's far better lol!!) http://youtu.be/VMVAwUYCn3A

Fabulous - I've seen this before but the performance and musicianship is just great and the sound is spot on. That version of All Right Now has such energy in the guitar solo part especially when they all jam towards the end.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1442170811' post='2864869'] In my memory it all sounded fantastic but the reality was that the bass in particular sounded awful in early seventies live recordings. So, was the gear really that good? [/quote] Spare a thought for the poor old 60s where live sound was even worse using amps and guitars that everyone now seems to revere. You only have to look at artists like Paul McCartney and Hank Marvin - do they still use the same Vox or whatever amps in more recent years. The answer is no. There is also the role the bass played in the music - 70s TV recordings or live sound with The Average White Band, Free or Bad Company for instance was v good as far as bass was concerned. I was a great fan of Ten Years After and particularly Leo Lyons and saw them live a number of times - their bass sound live (through twin Marshall stacks) sounded vanilla bass to me though the playing was great - fast forward to 83 and he was using a Wal with transistor amp of some sort and the sound was far more authentic to the recorded sound. A lot of bass players moved to Acoustic 370 set ups in the early 70s (especially R and B - but including Family Man Barrett and John Paul Jones amongst others). I think high powered transistorised bass amps made a huge difference - changing to an Acoustic 370 and Stingray in the late 70s from a Jazz and valve set up made a light and day change in my own bass sound. Changing to 10" speakers and a high powered class D completed the sound for me. I think the reverence to 60s and 70s equipment is as much buying into nostalgia as it is quality, perhaps more so. Remember there are a lot of people buying this stuff purely to buy nostalgia (I know of a number of people buying les Paul's or fiesta red strats purely for nostalgia - they can't play although aspire to learn in their final years.

V nice - congratulations. Have you tried the piezo on its own - v interesting sound (well it is on my Bongo).

[quote name='ianrendall' timestamp='1441959748' post='2863209'] Thanks for the replies chaps! Also, why so many holes? [/quote] Some of them are where they hold the items on a stick during manufacturing process (eg painting). Not sure about the Swiss facility....... 😃