drTStingray

Many of the comments in this thread about 'authentic jazz' remind me of the days of old in folk music when Dylan went electric and caused a near riot at a concert in Manchester - similar apeplexy when Fairport Convention used electric instruments and these days seen as a bunch of narrow minded people looking and sounding daft. I personally prefer Jazz on electric bass and I'm sure lots of people do. I also like upright (but please not in Miles Davis later music). What are these 'calls' which people keep saying electric players won't get? Firstly probably id wager a majority of people posting here are not professional musicians looking for a jazz session call (are there that many jazz sessions)? And secondly what is wrong with learning a range of music on your instrument - be it authentic or not? The idea is to grow musically not fit to some preconceived idea someone else has. I've learned quite a lot of music I'd never remotely expect to play in a group or even want to. But I can say it has helped me technically and theory wise to be a better player in what I do play. These people with the 'it's not a 62 precision with la bella flats through a Kustom so it's not authentic Jamerson' make me smile - they never notice it ain't Jamerson playing either. All has little relevance IMO - a bit like 'disgusted from Tunbridge Wells' in the Times letters page. They miss the point entirely.

Excellent - what is especially noticeable is the way the individual parts complement each other, leaving space - even the drumming does this. No individual part is overly complex or plays many notes - but together it sounds fabulous.

I experience this phenomena and have done/do with guitarists as well. With the drumming the issue for ears is with the high frequencies particularly (as far as ear safety goes). I have watched this situation with interest over periods of time and have developed several theories:- 1) too loud anything is usually caused by people whose hearing is suspect 2) people whose hearing is suspect don't hear higher frequencies properly so complain the bass is too loud and/or compensate by having an excruciatingly raucous tone or volume or both. 3) different instrumentalists/singers hear music in their own way - I will give you an example - the band I play in sometimes provides music by iPod in between sets - through the PA and generally at normal PA volume - when returning to play it's not unusual for the band to play along with the last bit of the final track of the interlude - all is well and beautifully mixed until the guitarist joins in who summarily drowns the entire band and the music track - does he hear music that way - ie it is only the guitar?? The problem is that is the volume he will play at so the entire band ratchets up to match it - meaning the band is excruciatingly loud at the start. 4) I was sat talking in the audience between sets during a gig of the band at 3) when the guitarist played a few notes having changed a string - it was truly ear shatteringly uncomfortable - if I'd been a punter I would not have stayed 5) I once played in a band with an elderly guitar player whose hearing really was shattered through a lifetime of gigs and I believe one incident with a PA contributed greatly - anyway he regularly moaned that the bass was too loud - he was so concerned about this he bought a radio device so he could stand at the back of the room at sound check and be assured the mix was ok - he was stunned that the sound in the audience area was well balanced - however the root cause - that he heard no treble and a heightened version frequencies at the bass end was not resolved - that band had a seemingly raucous guitar sound which led to people leaving gigs - it was also compounded by a singer who's idea of 50s Echo was to submerge his voice in slap back echo and reverb. So two issues there - hearing problems and perception problems - they are extremely audible on recordings made. So what's the answer to all this - and to the OPs problem - well comments about people's volumes generally creates defensiveness and denial and bad feeling - unless you entrust the job to someone independent - eg a sound engineer. My own problem is not being able to hear myself if people play too loud - and if I can't I'm pretty damned sure other band members can't as well. However the bass sound carries and the result is being too loud at the back of the room. Our (sometimes loud) drummer moaned at our guitarist at a recent band meeting - to paraphrase - for having an unmixed sound the direction from which it originated being obvious to the audience. The drummer was asked about his volume at times (he is very good at lowering his volume to create dynamics but tends to drum louder when the band get louder) - his response was he's not s jazz drummer! Which is a lie because he can play jazz admirably. A complex issue involving personalities, perceptions and even physical issues (hearing). Sometimes it's good for someone to say - we re too bloody loud - turn down!!

[quote name='Old Horse Murphy' timestamp='1436627059' post='2819643'] I've taken the neck off to look closer but unfortunately it's just as illegible as the photo By all accounts and speaking to a few people on the Ernie Ball forum, "red" was a colour option at the time and it certainly is that [/quote] Indeed - if you follow the link below (independent database - probably the best info you can get on pre EB instruments) you'll see there are quite a few basses listed with B027xxx serials in 1988 even though EBMM had used serials without the B0 prefix before and continued to use them after - perhaps they used up a batch of pre EB bridges? Anyway there are several listed as red and they certainly made other basses in the late pre EB period in that same colour (I've seen Stingrays and Cutlass basses) - as has been said on the EBMM forum the first Stingray EB made was in that solid red colour also. It looks a very nice bass. http://www.musicmanbass.org/mycustompage0028.htm

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1436515714' post='2818691'] Tell me Royal Blood isn't helping newbies pick up the bass for the first time, [/quote] Agreed - I had Muse with Chris Wolstenholm in that category as well. But they are exceptions - kids starting to play will generally get the 'sit in the background with a smiley face EQ and play a Precision with flats' mentality - as if it's 1960 again. A far cry from Royal Blood and guaranteed to put them off!

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1436510964' post='2818658'] I'd rather listen to John Paul Jones playing The Lemon Song or Ramble On than any of this sort of stuff. Yes, technically incredible, but what purpose does it serve? Technique, for me at least, is a background process. It's what you use to make a non-musician want to get up and dance, without necessarily knowing why [/quote] I agree entirely - but JPJ on those songs is all about technique and feel. Interestingly, there's nothing like a bit of slap bass or fretless to liven up non musicians - I have found its generally some musicians who object. Bass and drum breakdowns in songs in the disco/funk days was an oft used trick, with each other instrument entering one at a time after - lots of Bernard Edwards/chic examples of this especially live. No one stopped dancing - in fact they probably focussed on what was making them dance even better - so bass solos are not all bad in my view!!

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1436468322' post='2818449'] But it's so boring! What is this obsession with the honky bridge sound? Give me a bass player who looks cool, has an aggressive sound and isn't obsessed with doing a thousand licks per song. JJ Burnell and Duff McKagan spring to mind... [/quote] I suppose it depends on your musical taste. I find JJB quite tiresome to be honest. The mid heavy sound is what makes the bass heard rather than consigned to an inaudible background hum and whine. My worry these days is who in pop music (other than players from 25 yrs ago with a few exceptions from 10-15 yrs ago) is going to inspire a new generation of bass players. Pop music seems to be populated these days often by barely audible bass with a sound focus on subs rather than mids, often played in a plodding style - in other words, unlike rock and roll, rock, 70s R and B or 80s pop, the bass appears to not have any importance. Part of this is caused by the appalling mixing which occurs often - the pinnacle of this for me was listening to a big band play Glenn Miller stuff on BBC recently and for the first time ever I could hear a rythmn guitar (it was electric) - more prominent than the bass mind - on a par with the horns. The bass drum was as loud as the bass - the cymbals were also loud - totally inaccurate and just about sums up how much music these days for me is ruined by daft mixing. I heard Mark Ronson's latest single - an 80s throwback with synth bass - the bass is ok in the mix but an analogy would be with the toned down reggae served up in this country in the 60s on the basis our ears couldn't take the bass levels in the authentic stuff - of course that changed over the years but it seems to be where we are in pop these days. I admire these guys with great technique - if it's linked to great feel and musical skill in terms of note choice and groove it can enhance music significantly - basically what many players have done over the years. Including JJB in my view. I'm afraid I don't share the current love for indistinct thin plodding bass parts - such as much of the stuff served up at Glsstonbury. It just suggests to me the players don't have much skill as musicians and little say in the crappy mixing which occurs - or maybe they're using the wrong instruments. Back to my original point - how will kids be inspired to take up the bass with the current state of affairs?

I can guarantee its not all dreamers in the for sale threads - I was in the market for a vintage sunburst late 80s/early 90s Stingray - one appeared and the first time I saw the ad (about 2 days later) it had already sold ......... Damn!!! Perhaps the thread could be split so that the most popular makes/models get their own subthreads - thus avoiding buyers having to trawl through pages and pages of xyzabc etc and sellers having to constantly bump their items.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1436264483' post='2816470'] I had the guitar version of one of these. It was a nice player, though the novelty of that finish wore off rather quickly. [/quote] Is that finish faux leather or built in finish cracking? I also quite like Antigua as a finish. I'm guessing quite a few would have been refinished somewhere along the line to avoid scaring the kids - rather like all those sunburst strats in the early 60s in the UK when the distributors realised everyone wanted to be Hank B Marvin so wanted fiesta red Strats!! Another finish needing an acquired taste is the original USA Musicman Sub textured finish with checker plate pickguard. Strangely appealing now and if I was to be looking to buy a U.S. sub now I'd insist on it being all original and not pimped up to look like a regular Stingray. I can't work out how to post pictures on this site so I'll leave it to someone else to post a pic (presuming there's anyone left on the site with such a beastie - ah McNach has one I think!)

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1436128470' post='2815247'] Worst ever.. Spalted or burled. Rotten wood on your bass Sir? [/quote] Does plain (even rotten) wood even count as a colour - I know Warwick basses are often uncoloured but they have made some choice coloured ones including aherm ............. black (about the least adventurous of all bass colours), and the even more whacky chrome and dirty blond!! That Musicman puke colour has surely to rank as one of the all time disasters of mixed pigment though! The pic shown is not too bad but I've seen others where it looks browny yellow - it's called trans green btw (for those who didn't know)

You could just tune it BEAD and get the best of both worlds. Stingray 4s sound great tuned down.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1436103766' post='2814942'] And then peed on it. [/quote] Excellent imagery!! I'm surprised no one quoted this colour - although to be fair it has taken on somewhat of a cult status so is quite sought after - like peach, it was a colour quickly dropped and is thus quite rare - variously referred to as a Heinz condiment colour or akin to used nappy colour!! https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=musicman+trans+green+heinz&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XjuZVbnCGrOO7AbL3bq4Aw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=372#imgrc=JJ2JptI9uUbHQM%3A

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1435607506' post='2810587'] Fender Custom Shop Precision with two Gibson Thunderbird pickups and later added Gibson EB neck humbucker. [/quote] At Glastonbury that neck pick up had a white cover and resembled a Telecaster bass neck humbucker without the chrome cover.

Congratulations that's a v tasty looking Ray you have there - I'm quite envious! As you say there's something rather nice about the 2 band EQ - simpler to use IMO and always gets a cracking tone.

Very sad news - so many top bass players passing away this year. He was never my favourite bassist but having seen Yes multiple times live in the 70s and having heard the albums incessantly for a few years some of those lines are etched in my mind.

I thought they were great - fabulous sound IMO. One of the few bands where you could hear the bass and I was pleasantly surprised to see the bass cam cut in on the solo in My Generation - where many directors in the past have panned in on the lead guitar during it. Much as I'm a lover of the late Ox's music, I was always disappointed that you often couldn't hear what he was playing properly live - well certainly televised - I'm sure it was a great frustration to him. I thought Pino covered the material perfectly and it was the first time I've ever heard some of the bass lines of the 60s stuff properly - I am a little biased as I think Pino is one of the greatest electric bassists in an extremely versatile way. The Who was one of only a handful of acts televised at Glastonbury where you could hear the bass well in the mix (through my standard tele speaker). Well done to them long may they rock! The power of some of those songs is awesome.

[quote name='Modman' timestamp='1435257929' post='2807103'] Good evening one and all, I wan to start playing Jazz standards properly, whether that be in a band or at a Jam night etc but is it a cardinal sin to play an electric bass? Put it another way... Am i going to be sneered and spat at by the Jazzer elites? [/quote] Electric bass has been around in jazz since the early 50s - a lot of the opposition (from jazz officianados and other musicians) evaporated in the 70s and quite honestly there have been countless examples of jazz standards played on electric bass. I stayed in a hotel quite recently where they had someone performing jazz standards on piano in the lounge - accompanied by a bass player playing fretless electric. There was no sneering and no complaints. I think he was using roundwounds judging by the sound. I also saw the Buddy Rich orchestra in the early 70s - with electric bass (and excellent as well). There will always be die hards who have a different view (folk is another genre example) but a lot of what is reported these days is probably an exaggeration - back in the 50s/60s it was certainly true. But there's plenty of musical snobbery around in rock jam sessions to rival anything I've seen in the more esoteric genres. There's a bit of a tendency for people to confuse the current popularity for slavish attempts to mimic eras of historic music (especially the 60s) with a musician simply wanting to play particular songs etc. concentrate on learning the songs - that in itself is hard enough with jazz standards in my view. A presumption that the only way you can play particular songs and music is, for instance, on a specific make of instrument with a particular type of strings is focussing on equipment rather than musicianship - musically speaking its v narrow minded. Fine if it's a stage show depicting a specific band or as a tribute - otherwise not!! Walking bass lines are better on a double bass?? Good grief that's absolute nonsense in my view - the only thing better from the players point of view is you can be quite inaccurate on a double bass without being found out - unlike on a fretless or fretted electric!! Now if you're wanting to join an orchestra or band playing this music then you may find openings for electric bass more limited. My personal view is that jazz sounds better on electric - mainly because you can hear the notes more clearly. I suspect classic Miles Davis (eg Kind of Blue) has been played significantly more on electric bass than on upright, as recorded originally.

Mine is well travelled also originating in the USA from a now deceased EBMM forum member. I'm the third owner, having bought it from a UK based EBMM and Basschat member. Perhaps they all are!! Anyway I'm going to use the Bongo on my next gig and follow your advice on EQ settings to approximate a Precision sound.

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1434616917' post='2801159'] That actually makes sense, it's saying that the North and the South both have their rogues: [color=#000000][font=proxnov-reg, arial, sans-serif][size=1]In Birmingham they love the governor, boo boo boo[/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=proxnov-reg, arial, sans-serif][size=1]Now we all did what we could do[/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=proxnov-reg, arial, sans-serif][size=1]Now Watergate does not bother me[/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=proxnov-reg, arial, sans-serif][size=1]Does your conscience bother you? Tell the truth[/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=proxnov-reg, arial, sans-serif][size=1]Read more: [url="http://www.metrolyrics.com/sweet-home-alabama-lyrics-lynyrd-skynyrd.html#ixzz3dOw8ukDe"]Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama Lyrics | MetroLyrics[/url] [/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Indeed - but it doesn't explain the reference to the guv'nor below, which suggests concurrence with the courses of action. Even the producer, Al Kooper is quoted as saying they tried at the time to get the references removed from the song. 'Sweet home Alabama, oh, sweet home baby Where the skies are so blue and the governor's true'

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1434561745' post='2800818'] Ummmmm, why would you cringe? Where's the support for racism and violence in there? [/quote] It's a well known and debated controversy, which is a strange juxtaposition with the popularity of the song, which is undeniably a classic and catchy piece of music. The extract from an article below gives a flavour of the controversy:- 'Music historians point out that the choice of Birmingham in connection with the governor (rather than the capital Montgomery) is significant for the controversy as "In 1963, the city was the site of massive civil rights activism, as thousands of demonstrators led by Martin Luther King, Jr. sought to desegregate downtown businesses...[and] was the scene of some of the most violent moments of the Civil Rights Movement. Segregationist police chief Bull Connor unleashed attack dogs and high-pressure water cannons against peaceful marchers, including women and children; just weeks later, Ku Klux Klansmen bombed a black church, killing four little girls."[4]' Sorry to OP re thread drift - this is about Sweet Home Alabama. Brown Sugar's a great song to play but I don't totally buy an argument that it's anything but about sex (which the Stones, like any other young guys, seemed to be obsessed with).

I'd never realised Brown Sugar was anything other than reference to sex of one sort or another (not unusual for a Stones song). However the one I nowadays cringe at playing is Sweet Home Alabama with its Deep South attitude towards racism and support of violent put down of black protest - cringeworthy in my book, in a similar way to a couple of 70s British sit coms which only get shown as clips to demonstrate how society has changed since then - but Sweet Home Alabama goes down a storm presumably because no one takes the lyrics in.

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1434295092' post='2798371'] Everyone's playing Precisions these days [/quote] Oh yeah, those old planks (basses - not people) - but hey, even some of those have batteries - I've even seen vintage 50s/60s ones played by famous Americans, sporting outboard fixed on pre amp units. However very few semi pros I encounter use Precisions - I'd agree they're wall to wall on the television in name acts. I've noticed a tendency for the bass players, along with the bass sound, to evaporate into the background - apparently a good idea to wear 'background matching' colours to complete the effect of the disappearing bass player. There are notable exceptions - Bob Babbitt in the Funk Brothers band had a great upfront bass sound as I heard on one of their concert videos a few days back - now Motown was an outfit who knew how to use a bass guitar in music.

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1434278954' post='2798206'] This idea of keeping notes so you know in advance that when strings will die can only lead to one thing, boredom. How will you ever know what dull strings sound like again if you never hear them as dull. Life has its ups and downs. It is part of what makes life so interesting. When you have a bad gig/practice with bad strings you then have the new strings to look forward to. Perfection is not perfect. Just concentrate on the playing. [/quote] I couldn't agree more, but for one recent gig experience. I decided to crank out my Musicman Bongo 5HHp for this posh country pub bluesy/funky gig - can't remember why - thankfully we did a sound check because what started out in the initial noodle as a fantastic bass sound degenerated to a damp fart sound when the sound check started. And I had no spare batteries and we were a good 30 mins from the nearest purveyor of batteries. Our singer came to my rescue - as a user of radio mikes he had what can only be described as the battery version of an ammunition magazine of sparkly new batteries available!!!! 30 seconds later and the bass was back in working order and ready to shake lady's nether regions with its seismic bass notes!! I've noticed no one has mentioned batteries in this thread except me - has the population of Basschat altered over the last few months?? Or has everyone converted to double bass??

I well remember a member of this forum posting on the Musicman bass forum a copy of his extensive spreadsheet based bass log, which also included dates of battery change and other information - I was not the only member who gasped in amazement at the time. However he had several basses. I have several also and can't remember for the life of me when I replaced each battery. I was also playing one if them a couple of weeks ago and thought - hmmm these strings sound nice and zingy - but I couldn't remember what make or when I installed the roundwounds concerned ........... I fear I'm going to have to resort to the bass geek style spreadsheet - other than carrying a couple of batteries and a spare set of Ernie Ball Cobalt flatwounds in my lead box!!

Also on some bolt on neck basses. The Musicman Reflex is a particular example. It has a mahogany tone block within an otherwise ash body. The guitar version has a chambered tone block. The intention is, as far as I know, to alter the resonance of the body wood. It always make me laugh when I read comments on bass fora about body wood making no difference on an electric instrument - and yet manufacturers go to the expense of adding tone blocks of different types of wood in order to produce a specific tone which wouldn't be available otherwise - or would result in a heavier bass if the tone block wood was used for the whole body.