alhbass Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I'm interested in the possibility of de-fretting my Washburn bass. It's not an expensive instrument, so I'm not overly worried about using it as a test to see whether I can do it ok (not going to have a first go on my US P-bass!). If successful, I'd be interested in doing the same to a P (or possibly J) bass as I'd like to try playing fretless, but when the odd one comes available they seem even more expensive. I'm a joiner by trade, so well used to dealing with wood - but I've never turned my hand to instrument making/altering... So specifically, I'd be interested in any general advice about how to go about the task (and pitfalls etc) - but also technical issues arising, eg might the action end up being too high (I know it can be adjusted, but by how far?) once the frets are gone? I'd want to put lightweight strings on it, with a low action (I quite like a little "fret" buzz) for slapping, popping, bending and general abuse... Any advice or observations gratefully received. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Always better to buy an aftermarket fretless neck for a Fender. They can be picked up pretty cheap (less than £100 for pretty good quality). You then have two necks if you need versatility, and the original bass if you need to sell. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhbass Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='723640' date='Jan 24 2010, 10:25 PM']Always better to buy an aftermarket fretless neck for a Fender. They can be picked up pretty cheap (less than £100 for pretty good quality). You then have two necks if you need versatility, and the original bass if you need to sell. Chris[/quote] Thanks - I wasn't aware of that option. Any advice on what to look for when buying a fretless neck? Don't think I'd know a good one from a bad one, until it was too late maybe! Still interested in hearing from anyone who can give me advice on how to tackle the job on my Washburn tho... PS didn't Jaco take the frets off his own Jazz bass? Guess he knew what he was doing tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlthebassist Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) On the necks I have de-fretted, I have tightened the truss rod up a bit to create a back bow (takes pressure off the frets), and just used a soldering iron to heat the frets to loosen them off (it releases the oils in the wood, drying it a little and opening up the slot, takes a while), then gently wiggled the frets out with a pair of flush cut nippers. Problem can come in where the fret tangs are big and grip the wood more, which can lead to the wood flaking up around the slot when pulling them out. But they went in that way, so should come out. Get a gentlemens saw or pannel saw to cut the slot depths evenly on each fret, cleaning them out. if they are not even and clean then when you go to fill the slots you will notice the little lines of veneer that come down the edge of the fingerboard will look un even. Standard 0.6mm wood veneer is perfect for filling the slots - i have used superglue and titebond in the past and would advise against superglue... use a chissel to trim down the veneers after theyre glued in. keep glue to a minimum (but you know that being a joiner) If you can get a straight neck on the bass before you de fret it then you stand a good chance at getting it nice and level with the frets out. If you use a long block to sand the board you can get it pretty straight easily. Bolt on necks can be shimmed at the back of the neck pocket to give you a lower action is the saddels wont go down enough. also the nut will have to be re-cut, but thats easy. I'd say definately have a go on the washburn though. its fun. i taught myself how to do it on my squire mb-4, which was my first bass. but like chris says, you can get replacement fender necks REALLY cheap so thats a good option for the usa bass. I payed 47 quid for a brand new, finished, all maple Allparts neck on ebay! [url="http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/allparts-guitar-amp-parts/necks/bass-necks-c-277_1_122_124.html"]http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/all..._1_122_124.html[/url] look at those prices. theyre not bad necks at all really. but if you feel confidant after doing the washburn then go for it! you can always get it re fretted! (just dont go mad on the sanding ) Edited January 25, 2010 by karlthebassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Very good article in this months Guitar and Bass magazine..... Also some other good bits too! B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Thing is, if the bass isn't worth much and you don't mind if it does go wrong then I'd go for it. Any replacement neck will cost you hard earned cash whereas defretting is virtually free. I've even played a fretless that hadn't had the empty slots filled, and it worked fine. I'd do it the way Karl describes, but don't worry too much about the finer details like perfect inlays, glassy smooth boards and suchlike - get on and enjoy playing it. Oh, I nearly got death threats when I proposed defretting my old JV Precision, so I'd keep your US P the way it is and buy a fretless neck for it if you decide you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhbass Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 [quote name='karlthebassist' post='724519' date='Jan 25 2010, 08:30 PM']On the necks I have de-fretted, I have tightened the truss rod up a bit to create a back bow (takes pressure off the frets), and just used a soldering iron to heat the frets to loosen them off (it releases the oils in the wood, drying it a little and opening up the slot, takes a while), then gently wiggled the frets out with a pair of flush cut nippers. Problem can come in where the fret tangs are big and grip the wood more, which can lead to the wood flaking up around the slot when pulling them out. But they went in that way, so should come out. Get a gentlemens saw or pannel saw to cut the slot depths evenly on each fret, cleaning them out. if they are not even and clean then when you go to fill the slots you will notice the little lines of veneer that come down the edge of the fingerboard will look un even. Standard 0.6mm wood veneer is perfect for filling the slots - i have used superglue and titebond in the past and would advise against superglue... use a chissel to trim down the veneers after theyre glued in. keep glue to a minimum (but you know that being a joiner) If you can get a straight neck on the bass before you de fret it then you stand a good chance at getting it nice and level with the frets out. If you use a long block to sand the board you can get it pretty straight easily. Bolt on necks can be shimmed at the back of the neck pocket to give you a lower action is the saddels wont go down enough. also the nut will have to be re-cut, but thats easy. I'd say definately have a go on the washburn though. its fun. i taught myself how to do it on my squire mb-4, which was my first bass. but like chris says, you can get replacement fender necks REALLY cheap so thats a good option for the usa bass. I payed 47 quid for a brand new, finished, all maple Allparts neck on ebay! [url="http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/allparts-guitar-amp-parts/necks/bass-necks-c-277_1_122_124.html"]http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/all..._1_122_124.html[/url] look at those prices. theyre not bad necks at all really. but if you feel confidant after doing the washburn then go for it! you can always get it re fretted! (just dont go mad on the sanding )[/quote] That's a fantastic reply - very helpful - thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabson Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Big decisions! The people's basses I've de-fretted are of lesser value to them. One was a Peavey BXP which he bought of a soundman at a venue for £10... If you're goinmg ahead with it though what karl says is great. I filled - Under customer's request - the bass neck with epoxy glue mixed with paint. He was after the same colour fret slots you see. Its just as easy as filling the slots with veneer except you have to sand off lots of excess dried epoxy! check out this link for a photostory of how i did it: "Ben Wiltshire's Bass defret" [url="http://jacksinstrumentservices.com/my-work.html"]http://jacksinstrumentservices.com/my-work.html[/url] good luck all the best jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 One tip my luthier recommended, especially applicable to rosewood necks, as they tend to splinter more as you remove the fret, is to glue each splinter back in position as the fret is removed so you get a perfect fit and no blurring of the line when you fill it. I think he used superglue to do this. I've used Plastic Wood woodfiller to do 2 basses now - Pine colour for a maple board and Mahogany or "Dark Wood" possibly for a rosewood one where I didn't want the contrast to be too contrasty. This way you can still see the lines if you need to, but from a distance it looks pretty much like a plain board, which is tons cooler looking (imho). A fretless neck I had supplied specially was done with black lines on Pau Ferro which also looks nice, but nearly invisible under low lighting. If you look at Jaco's bass, specifically the picture on the front of his Biography, you can see he's just ripped 'em out with pliers and filled the slots with lots of evidence of splintering. Looks fine on a Mojo'd bass, but you might want to make a better job of it on something you're proud of.... or might want to sell further down the line! Cheers Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLondon Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 [url="http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1569.0"]http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1569.0[/url] See here, that's my bass being done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhbass Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='JackLondon' post='728974' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:36 PM'][url="http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1569.0"]http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1569.0[/url] See here, that's my bass being done [/quote] Wow - that's great! Quite inspiring.... But I think I'm probably going to take the advice of buying a fretless neck for now, so I have the option if things don't work out... But thanks for posting. I might have a go at my cheap bass (Washburn XB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslapper Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I've just done a defret on my Ryder P bass. Never done anything like this before, so had a go. I am a bit "industrial" when it comes to DIY, I don't have the patience, but I found it a lot of fun. Frets out, slots wood-filled, finger sanded. Now nice and smooth. But I'd like to put a seal on it. What's the best thing to use? Laquer? Which one? Satin/gloss Tru-oil? Anything else? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 If it's rosewood I'd leave it as it is. Oil it like you would a fretted and just 'play tha damn thang'. If it's maple then there are, eh.... options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslapper Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='henry norton' post='1125323' date='Feb 12 2011, 07:24 PM']If it's rosewood I'd leave it as it is. Oil it like you would a fretted and just 'play tha damn thang'. If it's maple then there are, eh.... options.[/quote] Thanks. I found an old bottle of lemon oil and rubbed that in. Looks nice. smells nice. Just need some flats to put on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom in Dorset Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I did my last de-fret with super glue. You can get big bottles from model shops. JUst paint it on with cheap disposable brushes (DO THIS OUTSIDE THE FUMES ARE NASTY) put on at last three coats (let each coat dry) then cut back with 320, 400 and 600 emery, then pollish with t-cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny-79 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 When i did the fret-less conversion on my Aria i used a two part glue, (something with a bit of give in it so that it wont dry totally solid and crack under vibrations of playing, truss rod adjustments etc) so would advise against anything like super glue to fill the slots it. Apply the glue, let it dry then carefully file it flush finishing with very fine sandpaper then give it a good lubing with some lemon oil to finish. Then all thats left to do is give the nut a bit of a cut/file to to get the action lower over the whole board, but play that one by ear, just because there are not any frets now its doesn't mean that you wont get a buzz if you go to low ! Good luck an have fun !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 [quote name='JackLondon' post='728974' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:36 PM'][url="http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1569.0"]http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1569.0[/url] See here, that's my bass being done [/quote]Outstanding job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeptrying Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 [quote name='alhbass' post='724460' date='Jan 25 2010, 07:56 PM']Thanks - I wasn't aware of that option. Any advice on what to look for when buying a fretless neck? Don't think I'd know a good one from a bad one, until it was too late maybe! Still interested in hearing from anyone who can give me advice on how to tackle the job on my Washburn tho... PS didn't Jaco take the frets off his own Jazz bass? Guess he knew what he was doing tho![/quote] in Jaco's biography he removed the frets with a pair of pliers, filled the gaps with wood filler and slapped a couple or coats of yacht varnish on the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 When you de-fret, is it possible to fill the holes and blend so that there's no visible line where the fret wire used to be? It's a long story - but project 2 (which I'm not starting for a while) wants a fretless fingerboard... however, because of other (daft) modifications, the intonation/scale length is going to out and I don't want little lines on the fingerboard trying to trick my already under-powered brain in to aiming for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbilly deluxe Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Just get the closest match wood filler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 And close you eyes Oh, and Jaco's hack job was fixed up by Kevin Kaufman not long after Jaco realised what a sh1t job he'd done of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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