How do they do it?

[TheButler]

Hey,

I was just wondering how indie bands do it; income wise. I'm sure a few of you folk on here will be relatively knowledgeable. See, i go to see these bands (65daysofstatic, This Will Destroy You awch, you know what i mean) They're brilliant, but i think to myself how much are these guys actually earning? Like all in, what £18-£25K maximum a year all in - more for the songwriters, a lot less for those who aren't?

I dunno, i was just wondering how they can do it without having another job going on. I know a lot of them might run labels themselves now or work in a studio, but some don't.

Edited November 6, 2009 by TheButler

[acidbass]

It's a sad fact that making money in the original music world nowadays is extremely difficult, especially consistently. I had a discussion the other day with a bass playing friend, who plays in an original indie band, and he was shocked to discover how much I made playing covers compared to their wage, if they even get one!

I think a lot of emphasis is being placed on merchandise sales, as this is where bands can recoup the investment needed to produce demos, EPs and the like. Of course, this means that bands have to take on the full responsibility of manufacturing, distributing and promoting their CDs too, so as to cut out the middle man. For the sheer amount of hours that most bands put in, they really do get paid a pittance.

[TheButler]

[quote name='acidbass' post='646895' date='Nov 6 2009, 01:19 AM']It's a sad fact that making money in the original music world nowadays is extremely difficult, especially consistently. I had a discussion the other day with a bass playing friend, who plays in an original indie band, and he was shocked to discover how much I made playing covers compared to their wage, if they even get one!

I think a lot of emphasis is being placed on merchandise sales, as this is where bands can recoup the investment needed to produce demos, EPs and the like. Of course, this means that bands have to take on the full responsibility of manufacturing, distributing and promoting their CDs too, so as to cut out the middle man. For the sheer amount of hours that most bands put in, they really do get paid a pittance.[/quote]

Yeh, the examples i gave are relatively big names, but yeah - folk that are doing long 2-3 month European tours, that might attract and audience of 50 maximum at each venue. How can they do it!?

[rasher80]

i think that there's so little money in selling records nowadays that "tour like a bastard" is the only way to make ends meet!

[harvey1-8]

The Singer from The Ghost of a Thousand works in HMV in Brighton, or at least he used to. They're signed to Epitaph.

Edit:

The drummer from Reuben worked in Debenhams in Guildford while they were still going.

Edited November 6, 2009 by alexharvay

[spacecowboy]

When my band played with "Baddies", "The Coronas" and "Idiosync" every single one of the bands had taken out a loan £18,000 - £24,000 and were touring the country on that, every band had a "mate" who acted as a driver, financial manager, roadie, booking agent etc and got a very small wage from that, guess if you want to get around you need to spend money.

Rock Sound magazine champions bands like This will destroy you, and sponsers them on their tours in the UK for coming over to play, 65 Days of static again huge in Rock Sound, have been DIY'ing their records for the past 12 years and that will definitely keep costs down, but it will in no way be a glamorous lifestyle!

Don't forget the bands main income of Merch sold at shows, thats how a band will really fund their night in a travel lodge.

[crez5150]

you don't.... unless your extremely lucky and get picked up by a major who will give you the support. Merchandise is a great way for indie bands to raise revenue.... if your in it for the Money... Join a wedding/Function band!

[spacecowboy]

[quote name='alexharvay' post='647166' date='Nov 6 2009, 12:47 PM']The drummer from Reuben worked in Debenhams in Guildford while they were still going.[/quote]


Reuben took me and my mate out for a pub lunch when we met them in Newcastle, hands down the nicest guys you could want to meet, they had what they called "Reuben Money" to spend and bought us lunch!

Likewise i was in Virgin in New York *as you do* and i saw Talena Atfield of Kittie working there while the band were off tour.....

[TheButler]

I guess the reason i'm asking this, is because i'm signed to a label. Things won't kick off 'til next year - with album release and stuff. Thing is the rest of them seem to be under the impression that they'll have to give up working in order to devote time to the band, but how the hell could you survive on nothing?

[jezzaboy]

The guitarist from Glasgow band Logan works in guitarguitar and a top bloke he is too. Was chatting to him a few weeks ago and said that whilst they weren`t making a shed load of bucks, they had supported Bent Jobys (sorry, Bon Jovi) at Hampden and went round the world a bit. Doesn`t sound too bad to me but we all need dosh to live.

Jez

[RussFM]

I think 4ft Fingers worked in Pizza Hut while they weren't touring, but yeah, part time jobs I'm afraid!

[harvey1-8]

Don't expect to give up your day job.

[TheButler]

[quote name='alexharvay' post='647183' date='Nov 6 2009, 12:58 PM']Don't expect to give up your day job.[/quote]

I'm a student. Work in a bakery on Saturdays and free weekdays. Should that be, don't give up your degree?

[harvey1-8]

[quote name='TheButler' post='647186' date='Nov 6 2009, 01:02 PM']I'm a student. Work in a bakery on Saturdays and free weekdays. Should that be, don't give up your degree? [/quote]

Well that depends. If you want a job that requires a degree then it's an easy decision.

I'm sure going to uni and being in a band can be do-able.

[buff]

Played with some bands a couple of years back who i think were signed to deckcheese records (the ruined, phinius gauge, fire apple red and no comply ) and the way i understood it was if they played somewhere it was part of the contract that the venue would provide them with a meal, depending on the venue also part of the takings on the door. Then again i played in plymouth one night with one of them, and only about 9 people came along. So the band where hoping to sell some cd's so they had enough diesel to get to exeter.

Edited November 6, 2009 by buff

[markl]

[quote name='rasher80' post='647162' date='Nov 6 2009, 12:44 PM']"tour like a bastard"[/quote]
and DIY your releases if you can

That's your answer and don't expect a very salubrious lifestyle - I had to give in and get a proper job in the end what with a mortgage and children.

Still do plenty though, you can tour etc you just have to plan it properly and have a supportive family, I took unpaid leave to tour a few years back.
I actually believe that this is the way it will be now for many orginal bands; do some kind of day job to pay the bills and do the music for your soul.
There is no money in normal CD/music sales anymore, I don't know exact figures but I know the 7,500 copies of the album we put out in 1992 would now get us very nice chart position rather then the just grazing the top 175 we actualy got then, also when we signed in 1991 the average development deal - that's for people who usually didn't even get to make record was £250,00- I believe those deals aren't around anymore, I try not to have any dealings with the music industry these days if I can help it.

Sorry long post

[TheButler]

[quote name='alexharvay' post='647193' date='Nov 6 2009, 01:06 PM']Well that depends. If you want a job that requires a degree then it's an easy decision.

I'm sure going to uni and being in a band can be do-able.[/quote]

The drummer has a history degree already and is in a stable job. The other two are working towards their second degree's (in music) and i imagine when they graduate next year all they're going to want to do is the band. I'd be cool with it, if i knew i could survive and hold down my uni and a job as well..

[harvey1-8]

[quote name='TheButler' post='647204' date='Nov 6 2009, 01:20 PM']The drummer has a history degree already and is in a stable job. The other two are working towards their second degree's (in music) and i imagine when they graduate next year all they're going to want to do is the band. I'd be cool with it, if i knew i could survive and hold down my uni and a job as well..[/quote]

Well seeing as the other guys have all been through or are going through uni then they should be understanding and supportive when you come to do it. Universities can be a great place to build a fan base.

Edited November 6, 2009 by alexharvay

[endorka]

There's always the option of getting work in commercially oriented function bands/musical theatre/sessions (or similar) to pay the bills, then depping out these gigs when you are working with the originals band. Some advantages are;

1) Your "day job" is playing music, and your musicianship will improve as a consequence.
2) You'll make contacts in the industry.
3) You may become more aware about commerical realities of the music business.
4) Taking time out to play in your originals band will be ok - depping out gigs to other musicians is an accepted practice.

But it would be a good idea to finish your degree... as someone once said "You should always have a Plan B".

Jennifer

Edited November 6, 2009 by endorka

[TheButler]

Yeah, i think finishing my degree is a given. I don't think i'm a good enough musician to do anything but originals haha.

[FuNkShUi]

[quote name='RussFM' post='647181' date='Nov 6 2009, 12:56 PM']I think 4ft Fingers worked in Pizza Hut while they weren't touring, but yeah, part time jobs I'm afraid![/quote]

They played a gig in my town a few years ago supporting douglas and the ataris. quality band, and a quality gig!! Actually it was when their bassist had just left, and a new dep had stepped in. What a player he was!!

[JTUK]

There is Indie and Indie, IMV..

Most acts head for Europe as they seems to have a more vibrant scene that exists because they like what they like as opposed to being driven by fads or what is hot.

A fan might run a record label and also promote his acts shows.. How they piece a tour together, I don't know, but a lot of favours will be called in.... FOR SURE..!!
About 20 years ago, we were touring with a songwriter and he was good enough to pay us what we asked for.. and our cost per show was around £500, I would guess. The local promoters had to provide BB, an evening meal and the rider at the gig. It must have worked for some, but others may have struggled. The tour promoter had to provide the transport and backline for the duration.
It was far better to get onto festivals as they had a budget that was decent..

It is a young mans game mostly...as you don't do it for the money.
Looking back on it..we were blindingly lucky to make good gig money and be looked after but all the songwriter got out of it was album sales and kudos....

Once you are into the festival scene we meet all manner of old bands that you though had died a death... they seemed to do well enough to do it all over again...but maybe they were just happy to gig at a fancy venue and then go back to running their pub or something..


I still reckon it is very hard to earn £30,000 pa out of playing... and not many can do it, IMO.

Sure, a function band gigging all over will get there, possibly ...but that still needs a couple of gigs a week at £200 plus per man..plus teaching, plus locals, plus a session or two...tough to keep that going 11 months a year...

that is hard work as well... and how long can you put up with it..??

[jonny-lad]

[quote name='endorka' post='647232' date='Nov 6 2009, 01:43 PM']There's always the option of getting work in commercially oriented function bands/musical theatre/sessions (or similar) to pay the bills, then depping out these gigs when you are working with the originals band. Some advantages are;

1) Your "day job" is playing music, and your musicianship will improve as a consequence.
2) You'll make contacts in the industry.
3) You may become more aware about commerical realities of the music business.
4) Taking time out to play in your originals band will be ok - depping out gigs to other musicians is an accepted practice.

But it would be a good idea to finish your degree... as someone once said "You should always have a Plan B".

Jennifer[/quote]
+1

Playing gigs that pay to fund originals bands seems to get overlooked IME, but looks like the ideal solution!

[markl]

[quote name='jonny-lad' post='647267' date='Nov 6 2009, 02:20 PM']+1

Playing gigs that pay to fund originals bands seems to get overlooked IME, but looks like the ideal solution![/quote]

This is a way to do it, a drummer I know in really bonkers noise/avant garde band earns his keep doing functions/sessions and teaching, but that way is not for everyone, I couldn't for instance, thought of it makes my blood run cold, I would rather do my office job and keep my music seperate.

You'll need to find a way that suits.

You do need to keep it enjoyable though IMO

[dangerboy]

The impression I get from chats with people who know these kind of bands is that you a/. keep costs to a minimum b/. keep another job for when you're not touring and c/. know that one day you'll run out of money, and the music will stop.

There's a stable income stream to be had in continental Europe (as has been pointed out above, the faddish "music" press seem to hold less sway there) too, but that's really only enough to make tours self-funding, rather than to make money.

In the UK the system seems to be rigged in favour of bands who have someone with very big pockets paying for everything until the day they're doing arena tours.