Pubs and venues to be protected from noise complaints

[Cliff Edge]

sounds like a plan. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwye5jx8y3go

[chris_b]

Too late for many gigs.

[Rich]

ABOUT BLOODY TIME. But yes, too late for many fine venues. RIP The Point, Cardiff.

There are only a few lower forms of life than someone who moves in near an established music venue, knowing full well that it's there, and then complains about it to the extent that it is forced to close. Scumbags. I hope their houses get infestations of mountain-beaver fleas.

[Mottlefeeder]

Noise pollution is a common cause of stress, so keeping it down, or keeping it in, will reduce ill health and the resultant load on the NHS.

 

I have no problem with people who want it loud, but I think it is wrong to expect the rest of the neighbourhood to pay for soundproofing. The polluter should pay for the reduction/treatment of their pollution.

 

If that results in most pubs being quiet, and purpose built venues for loud music, with prices to suit, that seems fair to me.

 

David

[Count Bassy]

14 minutes ago, Mottlefeeder said:

Noise pollution is a common cause of stress, so keeping it down, or keeping it in, will reduce ill health and the resultant load on the NHS.

 

I have no problem with people who want it loud, but I think it is wrong to expect the rest of the neighbourhood to pay for soundproofing. The polluter should pay for the reduction/treatment of their pollution.

 

If that results in most pubs being quiet, and purpose built venues for loud music, with prices to suit, that seems fair to me.

 

David

It's a case of who was there first. If you build a dwelling next to a noisy venue then that should be your responibility. If a bar/cub opene up next to you then it's their responsibility.

 

It's the "Agent of Change " princible.

Edited 20 hours ago by Count Bassy

[Hellzero]

This is the stupidest law project ever.

 

Noise is a health problem, period.

 

So noise makers must contain it within their properties and limits, so they are the ones to build the soundproof barrier, not the neighbourhood.

 

It's also based on respecting the others.

 

If you understand this, you'll live in total harmony with everyone.

 

The freedom of one ends where that of another begins.

[lowdown]

I thought the English loved noise? **

 

“The English may not like music, but they absolutely love the noise it makes”.

 

Sir Thomas Beecham

 

 

 

 

 

[Gank Bass]

Brings back fond memories of the police being called to a pub gig on the lovely Birmingham waterfront. The complaint came from a nearby docked boat, maybe float off??

[TimR]

2 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

It's a case of who was there first. If you build a dwelling next to a noisy venue then that should be your responibility. If a bar/cub opene up next to you then it's their responsibility.

 

It's the "Agent of Change " princible.

 

It's a case of the level of noise that is reasonably expected. 

 

If I moved next to a pub that played music, I'd expect music at certain times of the week and at a certain level.

 

Bands are getting louder and venues are staying open later.

 

There are developers that do stupid things like build retirement flats next to music venues, that kind of thing should be thrown back to the developers to fix. But we know developers vanish with regularity for a new company to spring up in their places.

 

It's far more complex and nuanced than; buy a place near a pub and you should expect trouble and noise, just put up with it.

[TimR]

And allowing pubs to spill put into the street in city centres is one thing, but in an area where there is housing, without the landlord being expected to control rowdy behaviour is another.

 

Having people eating, drinking and talking all week outside your front door is one thing. Having people shouting and swearing is another. 

 

Again, it's about what is reasonably expected.  

[Count Bassy]

4 hours ago, Hellzero said:

This is the stupidest law project ever.

 

Noise is a health problem, period.

 

So noise makers must contain it within their properties and limits, so they are the ones to build the soundproof barrier, not the neighbourhood.

 

It's also based on respecting the others.

 

If you understand this, you'll live in total harmony with everyone.

 

The freedom of one ends where that of another begins.

You first statement is a matter of opinion. I disagree.

 

Your second statement is simply wrong. Noise CAN be a health problem but it all depends on the level.

 

 

I can't think of any club I've been to where the noise outside is anywhere like a health problem. Possibly annoying to neighbours, but a health problem? No.

 

If you move next to that sort of existing noise source then you should have no right to complain.

[Hellzero]

Of course you have the right to complain, noise above a certain dB level is a nuisance and is simply not allowed.

 

And noise is a health problem as it can lead to serious health issues, stress being the first, leading itself to cardiac problems and neurological disorders.

 

If you like noise, go and start living in a factory with 24/24 7/7 permanent noise, you'll certainly appreciate being in such an environment.

 

Stop thinking you can make as much noise as you want without caring for the neighbours, it's so selfish.

[Mottlefeeder]

1 hour ago, Count Bassy said:

You first statement is a matter of opinion. I disagree.

 

Your second statement is simply wrong. Noise CAN be a health problem but it all depends on the level.

 

 

I can't think of any club I've been to where the noise outside is anywhere like a health problem. Possibly annoying to neighbours, but a health problem? No.

 

If you move next to that sort of existing noise source then you should have no right to complain.

Let's be clear about the 'health problem'.

 

It isn't about volume which can damage your hearing, it's about the stress caused by the regular annoyance which you refer to.

 

David

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

Of course you have the right to complain, noise above a certain dB level is a nuisance and is simply not allowed.

 

And noise is a health problem as it can lead to serious health issues, stress being the first, leading itself to cardiac problems and neurological disorders.

 

If you like noise, go and start living in a factory with 24/24 7/7 permanent noise, you'll certainly appreciate being in such an environment.

 

Stop thinking you can make as much noise as you want without caring for the neighbours, it's so selfish.

So just to be clear -- you think it's ok to move in to a house close to an establishment that you know full well to be a source of noise, and then complain about it despite the fact that a} it was there first, b} you knew it was there, and c} you chose to live near it?

[Hellzero]

10 minutes ago, Rich said:

So just to be clear -- you think it's ok to move in to a house close to an establishment that you know full well to be a source of noise, and then complain about it despite the fact that a} it was there first, b} you knew it was there, and c} you chose to live near it?

It's all about noise, not what you're trying to make me say as it was absolutely not my point.

 

Let me put it another way.

 

You come to this place once in a while, enjoy the noise or even make it yourself, then you go away.

 

It happens to you, as I wrote, once in a while, but the neighbours have to live with this each and every day with other people doing exactly the same as you, so this noise becomes a medical issue for them.

 

This could be avoided if the noise is limited to the place mentioned, by simply using dampening or limiting the PA to what's legal, which is NEVER the case.

 

It's not because it was there first that this is not a nuisance, and your b and c points are pure bullshìt trying to make me say what I didn't.

 

What I'm saying is that if you want to make noise, go on, but respect the neighbourhood without annoying them and if this noise is coming from a pub or a venue, it's their obligation to tame it.

 

Of course, I would never decide to live nearby some known noise makers, being it a pub, a venue, an airport or anything else and then starting to complain as I knew it would be a real nightmare from the start.

 

But some people have not my choice or sometimes discover afterwards that there's a noise maker nearby that was closed for a period, but reopened and then the escalation starts.

 

You know Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes: Does this make U.K. a German property?

[Mottlefeeder]

There may be circumstances when it is in the national interest for a few people to be lumbered to noise annoyance, eg wind farms, airport flight paths etc (but even these are debatable),  but for the population in general, they have an expectation that they should not be subjected to loud music at antisocial hours, dogs barking all day, drum/bass/guitar practice playing the same thing over and over, and the law appears to be on their side.

 

Just because we always used to do it does not make it right today. The current trend for wedding venues to require IEMs, no stage amps, no stage monitors, and all PA speakers pointing at the dance floor to keep external noise down is the way forward.

 

David

[Rich]

27 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

It's all about noise, not what you're trying to make me say as it was absolutely not my point.

 

Let me put it another way.

 

You come to this place once in a while, enjoy the noise or even make it yourself, then you go away.

 

It happens to you, as I wrote, once in a while, but the neighbours have to live with this each and every day with other people doing exactly the same as you, so this noise becomes a medical issue for them.

 

This could be avoided if the noise is limited to the place mentioned, by simply using dampening or limiting the PA to what's legal, which is NEVER the case.

 

It's not because it was there first that this is not a nuisance, and your b and c points are pure bullshìt trying to make me say what I didn't.

 

What I'm saying is that if you want to make noise, go on, but respect the neighbourhood without annoying them and if this noise is coming from a pub or a venue, it's their obligation to tame it.

 

Of course, I would never decide to live nearby some known noise makers, being it a pub, a venue, an airport or anything else and then starting to complain as I knew it would be a real nightmare from the start.

 

But some people have not my choice or sometimes discover afterwards that there's a noise maker nearby that was closed for a period, but reopened and then the escalation starts.

 

You know Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes: Does this make U.K. a German property?

My points b and c were perfect germane and your accusation of 'bullshit' is as peculiar as it is nonsensical. In fact, the situation I described is exactly what happened to The Point in Cardiff, inclusive of my points a to c and probably an additional d, e and f too. But thank you anyway for eventually actually addressing my sole question, even if it did take you 8 paragraphs of huffing to get round to it. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Rich

[Count Bassy]

3 hours ago, Mottlefeeder said:

Let's be clear about the 'health problem'.

 

It isn't about volume which can damage your hearing, it's about the stress caused by the regular annoyance which you refer to.

 

David

But in that case almost anything can be called a health issue. e.g. other people, especially other drivers, having to work, not having a job,  traffic, the guvment, people complaining about the noise etc. etc.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Count Bassy

[Count Bassy]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

It's all about noise, not what you're trying to make me say as it was absolutely not my point.

 

I think you have already said it. No need to try and make you.

 

[TimR]

5 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

But in that case almost anything can be called a health issue. e.g. other people, especially other drivers, having to work, not having a job,  traffic, the guvment, people complaining about the noise etc. etc.

 

 

Those things are 'reasonably expected'.

 

You expect a music venue to make a reasonable amount of noise.

 

As I said upthead, a lot of these venues make unreasonable amounts of noise well into the early hours of the morning, during the week and on Sundays. 

Edited 6 hours ago by TimR

[BassAdder60]

I think it’s a shame we have become less tolerant of others having fun 

 

Many established music venues destroyed due to noise complaints often from one individual!

 

People jumping on the mental health issue ( seems to be any reason these days it’s stated ) Granted in some cases of course it’s valid but perhaps it’s more down to lack of respect and tolerance. We really just don’t have much of it these days, proportionate fun and live and let live should be more the thing like it seemed to be years back 

Jeez we are all musicians on here and music comes with volume which we should applaud and congratulate any opportunity to keep venues open for music. 
 

Edited 4 hours ago by BassAdder60

[Geek99]

If it’s in a city and you’re trying to get your kids to sleep? 

I get that if it was already there when you moved in, it’s not the venues issue 

 

much as we like to make what is essentially noise, it has consequences for other people 

Edited 4 hours ago by Geek99

[TimR]

I went to see Iron Maiden at the London Stadium last month. 

 

It was loud, but not overbearing. They had a 10pm curfew. They just started a bit earlier.

 

Contrast that with their Hammersmith Odeon gigs in the 80s, my ears were still ringing 3 days later.

 

I always take my earbuds to gigs now (even pub gigs) and I had to wear them at a recent gig at the Underworld in Camden. They shouldn't really be necessary if we are honest with each other. 

[Hellzero]

This debate will be as sterile as tonewood.

 

Some people believe they can make as much noise as they want as well as some don't believe in tonewood.

 

The funny thing is that those preaching for noise tolerance would refuse to live in such a neighbourhood all year long, it's exactly the same as those complaining about people driving too fast in their street and doing it themselves everywhere else.

 

Strange selfish world we're living in.

 

And it didn't take 8 paragraphs to state my point of view as it was obvious from the start, but @Rich, you were only talking about one venue in peculiar and not in general, which is my speech: Empathy doesn't seem to be a part of your emotional panel.

[TimR]

If the owners of The Venue were honest with themselves, it wasn't a suitable place for loud concerts, and spending 10s of thousands of pounds on soundproofing was short-sighted. 

 

Ultimately, the financial crash of 2008 was what bought them down. 

Edited 3 hours ago by TimR