1975 Fender Precision Fake?

[ronswanson]

Hello. I'm Looking for some advice on a bass I've purchased via auction, I've yet to collect.
 

It was listed as 1975 Fender Precision Bass mocha finish. From the photos I thought the neck and neck plate looked genuine. I thought the body had obviously had a hard time and had some bits changed but didn't think too much of it.

 

3 or 4 things looked obviously non-original for a Fender:

• bridge
• pickups
• knobs
• string-through - I wasn't sure about this but thought it was possible or could have been a mod.

 

By chance, after the auction I saw an image of a P bass copy on Facebook that has made me doubt it's fully authentic - a Hondo H-830 Fame. Any one of those parts being different didn't ring any alarm bells but seeing the Hondo having 3 or 4 similarities is a bit of a co-incidence.

 

The bridge design matches a Hondo exactly. It's also string-through with the holes on the back not in a straight line. The knobs are dom topped rather than flat.

 

The pickups on the "Fender" seem to have "EMG" written on them, while the Hondo I think has DiMarzio, so nothing to conclude from that.

 

What do you think? Genuine or partscaster?

 

I've got other photos but hopefully you can zoom in on these.

 

Hondo Fame 830 on reverb for reference:
https://reverb.com/item/29455437-hondo-fame-830-bass-guitar-used

 

Next steps will be to pass the info back to the auction house and suggest checking the neck pocket and pots. It's a 3 hour round trip so I'm hoping to resolve this without having to go in person.

Cheers!

[warwickhunt]

Cant see the neck clearly but the body is a wrong un! 

 

[diskwave]

Thru body holes arent even in line... somebodys been at it with the dremel. Neck looks good but who knows and theres no-way to chk the bodies authenticity. Red flags everywhere, but if its a player, then for the right price.....

[wateroftyne]

The string-through routes don't look factory, though..!

[Burns-bass]

Deleted post as I was wrong.
 

This is the bass I had seen.

 

Might be good as a reference?

 

https://richtonemusic.co.uk/fender-1976-precision-bass-mocha-hard-case-2nd-hand/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17621730406&gbraid=0AAAAAD_dMP3g5GEaSq-BJVH3JCCIPv-ag&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxo_CBhDbARIsADWpDH6QFy1oJPV75GkeXgflwqYVhEsDYkGIdtm5VpjOL6DXnNRJLpUpqvYaAn7qEALw_wcB

Edited 15 hours ago by Burns-bass

[warwickhunt]

The fact that the bridge and alignment of the ferrules are 'exactly' as per the Hondo screams that the body is simply a Hondo.

 

[Doctor J]

Cancel the order now, that's a cheapo body. Dots on the neck aren't right and it looks like  J width nut to me.

 

Fakedy Fake from Faketown.

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, warwickhunt said:

The fact that the bridge and alignment of the ferrules are 'exactly' as per the Hondo screams that the body is simply a Hondo.

 

They look aligned on the Hondo, but the OP bass looks like a frown...?

[walshy]

I can hear the alarm bells ringing from Northumberland! 

[wateroftyne]

6 minutes ago, walshy said:

I can hear the alarm bells ringing from Northumberland! 

Aye, it’s clearly a mutt. Just wondering how - if it’s a Hondo - they let it out of the door with those routes.

[walshy]

Just now, wateroftyne said:

Aye, it’s clearly a mutt. Just wondering how - if it’s a Hondo - they let it out of the door with those routes.

Aye looks like it was done with a machine gun from distance or maybe the GG 😉

[MrFingers]

It went to hell, got beaten, and refinished, there and then travelled all the way back... But it's legit. What is an instantly recognisable feature is the 2 filled dowel holes at the rear of the body. One near the end of the body, the other next to the neckplate (prior tot 1969 they were both on the centerline of the guitar, the top one was moved because you could see it on a sunburst).

The neck is also a typical 1970-1975 neck, the difference in discolouration between the headstock face (nitro) and the rest (poly) checks out. I bet that if you remove the E-tuner, you'll also see an (unfilled) dowel hole between the bottom two mounting screws for the tuner.

 

 

[Mrbigstuff]

1 hour ago, MrFingers said:

It went to hell, got beaten, and refinished, there and then travelled all the way back... But it's legit. What is an instantly recognisable feature is the 2 filled dowel holes at the rear of the body. One near the end of the body, the other next to the neckplate (prior tot 1969 they were both on the centerline of the guitar, the top one was moved because you could see it on a sunburst).

The neck is also a typical 1970-1975 neck, the difference in discolouration between the headstock face (nitro) and the rest (poly) checks out. I bet that if you remove the E-tuner, you'll also see an (unfilled) dowel hole between the bottom two mounting screws for the tuner.

 

 

If the neck is Fender, it’s had a new nut, fingerboard, inlays and frets. The body might be but again has been modded beyond meaningful originality. It’s a dog if there ever was one.

[ronswanson]

Wow. Thanks for the replies. It's definitely a dog's breakfast 😀

 

The dowel holes is an interesting observation @MrFingers thanks. I've been searching for natural-ish Hondo's for comparison. I can't find any that show dowel holes.

 

The ferrule holes are pretty shocking. Most of the Hondo's I can find have them straight - this initially made me think it was a DIY job (possibly meaning it's not a Hondo). I suppose if you set the bridge how you want it and then drill pilot holes from the front, you'll end up with something like this. But I did find some Hondo's that were similar like this one on reverb:

 

 

 

and this one on gumtree:

 

 

 

 

I somehow didn't even notice the brown inlays on the fretboard 🙄 Again, I've been search for examples of anything at all with brown dots but can't find any. Just another wierd customisation?

 

A close up

 

Another interesting bit is the scratchplate. It appears to have had a switch fitted at some point and then the whole covered:


Why would it need a switch? That makes me think the scratch plate might also be from another bass - one that maybe had a PJ setup, like this.... also a Hondo but I don't think the PJ setup is standard. Those knobs look familiar.

 

 

 

A few more images... Side view of neck join showing fretboard

 

Back of headstock with tuners

 

Front of headstock

 

Thanks again!

[Burns-bass]

Did you buy it on Facebook or through an auction house?

 

Most auctions will argue their case on this and that the onus is on you to ensure the condition and originality before bidding.

 

eBay is much more forgiving to the buyer.

 

There are two ways to consider this. If it’s an investment for you, this is probably a bad one.

 

If it’s a bass you want to play and enjoy for years to come it might be ok.

[Doctor J]

Another massive alarm? There's no gap in the neck pocket, very unlike 70's Fenders 😉

[Geek99]

Regarding string thru, misalign when drillling thru from front is exactly the mistake I made with a Vintage 

 

Fake, reject it 

Edited 3 hours ago by Geek99

[Chiliwailer]

9 hours ago, ronswanson said:

 

 

 

Why would it need a switch? That makes me think the scratch plate might also be from another bass - one that maybe had a PJ setup, like this....
 

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there was routing under the pickguard, for active electronics and a battery, probably installed years back. The guard is likely original. 
 

As @MrFingers already pointed out, the nail holes suggest the body to be original Fender (but earlier). 
 

This could be a really great ‘player’s bass’ (I.e. vintage but not collectible) at the end of the day.

Edited 1 hour ago by Chiliwailer
Important word missing!

[Geek99]

7 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Did you buy it on Facebook or through an auction house?

 

Most auctions will argue their case on this and that the onus is on you to ensure the condition and originality before bidding.

 

eBay is much more forgiving to the buyer.

 

There are two ways to consider this. If it’s an investment for you, this is probably a bad one.

 

If it’s a bass you want to play and enjoy for years to come it might be ok.

Actually that is not always true. If it proves to be something other than described in a substantial way you can reclaim 

[Geek99]

Was tending to fender neck, hondo body but the weird inlays steer me away 

different varnish shade on headstock is normal - their normal varnish attacked the decals and these age differently 

 

bitsa. Might be a good player but not worth premium vintage money 

[MrFingers]

12 hours ago, Mrbigstuff said:

If the neck is Fender, it’s had a new nut, fingerboard, inlays and frets

It's a one-piece neck, so replacing the fingerboard is not that easy. And it would show immediately at the walnut trussrod plug, which would have its top cut off. Someone went to town on it by replacing the facedots (as can be seen on the detailed pictures further in this thread, it also shows no gluejoint at the headstock, so fretboard is original), and thus (locally) refinishing the fretboard. New nut is no real biggie. Frets do appear to me to be the original "low and wide" ones as were used after 1966. I don't see any tearout of the maple either that would suggest a refret.

To OP: you can rest assured: the bones of the instrument (tuners, stringtree, neck (except position markers and possible new fretboard finish), body, neckplate (with its black backing plate) and likely the pickguard all check out for a 1974-1975 Precision Bass. It might be thrown together from parts sourced left and right (hurray for the modular design of Fender), but the parts do check out. Once in your possession, you can always remove the neck and search for a date-stamp, and maybe the potmeter codes.

EDIT: the more I look at it, it might even be that the body finish is original as well. Prior to 1975, Fender used a rather light brown and very translucent colouring, before switching to a darker and almost opaque colouring (because then the wood didn't really show, so they could use more/uglier pieces of wood).

Edited 1 hour ago by MrFingers

[Reggaebass]

I’ve seen the pictures of this on the auction site, it’s an interesting one that someone has used for a project, I do think the body and neck is original but the dot markers are strange , could it be a walnut finish and not mocha?, the extra hole in the pickguard would worry me as that could suggest extra routing under the guard for maybe active electrics, I’d ask for some pics, and one of the neck stamp if possible, with a decent bridge it might be ok but hard to tell without seeing it up close and playing it, good luck 

[Mrbigstuff]

7 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

It's a one-piece neck, so replacing the fingerboard is not that easy. And it would show immediately at the walnut trussrod plug, which would have its top cut off. Someone went to town on it by replacing the facedots (as can be seen on the detailed pictures further in this thread, it also shows no gluejoint at the headstock, so fretboard is original), and thus (locally) refinishing the fretboard. New nut is no real biggie. Frets do appear to me to be the original "low and wide" ones as were used after 1966. I don't see any tearout of the maple either that would suggest a refret.

To OP: you can rest assured: the bones of the instrument (tuners, stringtree, neck (except position markers and possible new fretboard finish), body, neckplate (with its black backing plate) and likely the pickguard all check out for a 1974-1975 Precision Bass. It might be thrown together from parts sourced left and right (hurray for the modular design of Fender), but the parts do check out. Once in your possession, you can always remove the neck and search for a date-stamp, and maybe the potmeter codes.

EDIT: the more I look at it, it might even be that the body finish is original as well. Prior to 1975, Fender used a rather light brown and very translucent colouring, before switching to a darker and almost opaque colouring (because then the wood didn't really show, so they could use more/uglier pieces of wood).

Yes easy to see now with the detailed pictures. The original pic looked like a fresh board - can be done - and the frets appeared jumbo size. Obviously now not the case. Shows the importance of the details!

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, Geek99 said:

Actually that is not always true. If it proves to be something other than described in a substantial way you can reclaim 

You can, but you’d have to prove that the auction house had completely and purposefully misrepresented the item. They use all sorts of semantic tricks to ensure this doesn’t happen. Pay on credit card and you’ve got more protection.

[miles'tone]

The fingerboard dots look like they've filled the holes with woodfiller to match the body finish.