Going ampless

[mellortron]

Morning all. New here so not sure if this is in the right place. Feel free to merge/move or whatever.

 

I currently have a Rumble 500 combo which doesn't go through the PA. Good amp as it is, I'm fed up of lugging it around. We use IEMs for monitoring and the amp is DI'd into the desk for monitoring.

 

So I'm thinking of going ampless. I play in a covers band playing mainly Britpop and classic rock so don't faff around with different tones or styles too much. 

 

Does anyone have any experience of going ampless? What equipment did you use? I'm looking at the Ampeg SCR-DI and then using my Korg tuner added to it. 

 

Any suggestions or advice would be much appreciated.

 

If it helps, I play a 2004 precision.

 

 

[JapanAxe]

Welcome to the forum @mellortron! You could try this thread for starters: 

 

[joel406]

I have several pedal boards setup to quench whatever thirst I have at the time. I've been ampless for the last 2 years. I have both the Mesa Boogie Subway pedals. Both perform perfectly. I also have a Le Bass that is a bit better. Probably the tube. Which led to picking up a Revolt. And a CABM. Both amazing. The Crown Jewel of course is the Quadcortex. It does it all. Expensive. But more than worth it. I also have a variety of compressors, but I pretty much married to the Keely compressor pro. Love it so much I keep 3 on hand. I also have the Empress and a couple of MXRs. But the Keely is just right. Very subjective subject. Not a lot of love for ampless users here. Even if it is better than any amp setup. And I have a 1600 watt Mesa stack. I'll take in-ears any day. The sound is soooo much better.

[Lozz196]

I’m intending on going ampless for my gig on Fri. I am taking my amp head as an in-case but if the sound engineer is ok with it I’ll just be using my Sansamp.

[Jack]

1 hour ago, joel406 said:

... Not a lot of love for ampless users here...

It's like, the trendiest topic. 

[jimbobothy]

... I've been playing ampless at church for years now, and around 3 or so gigs for the Soul/Motown band I also play in. Truth be told I am starting to miss the vibe I got when were were not IEM in the Motown band, however my ears have not been ringing after rehearsals and gigs! Also we can hear each other much better!

 

Anyhow, back to the point, I use One Control AAIB pedals and a cheap Fender Micro DI that has a cab sim button on it. Not expensive if bought used and through headphones the sound is ace. I currently have the Crimson Red AAIB (Amp in a Box) pedal on the gig board, but also have the other AAIB pedals from One Control if I need a different sounding 'Amp' etc.

[xgsjx]

I played ampless at church when I was a Christian too.

DI box at the end of the pedal chain & straight to the desk. Used IEMs. 

With my band (jazz, trip hop, soul, kinda thing), I do pretty much the same, but I have an active PA cab for my backline rather than IEMs & waiting on a Bassics preamp arriving to replace my DI.

[Downunderwonder]

IEM scare me to death for the potential for a system out of my control to blow out my ears with one mistake.

[Marty Forrer]

6 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

IEM scare me to death for the potential for a system out of my control to blow out my ears with one mistake.

Me too. Plus the PA is mine, and I prefer to keep bass out of it.

 

[BigRedX]

I've been totally ampless in one band and partially ampless (I have an FRFR for rehearsals and occasionally on-stage monitoring) in the other for 5 years now. I made money when I sold my traditional amplification and replaced it with a Helix and RCF745. Given how I'm now using the FRFR I could have bought a lesser (and cheaper) model and come away with even more profit.

 

I don't miss my traditional rig. It looked good, but it was big and heavy and took up lots of room on stage and in the band van. On small stages I would have to turn down so much so as not to upset the FoH sound that it was all but inaudible and on big stages it really only worked as a personal monitor when I was stood directly in front of it. The rest of the time I was reliant on the PA monitors to be able to hear myself, so for me it made total sense to ditch the conventional rig as most of the time it was of no audible benefit to either me, the band or the audience. The sorts of gigs my bands play there is nearly always a good in-house PA in the venue. Since ditching the conventional rig I have done two gigs where I need to use the FRFR to provide bass for the whole venue, and IMO it coped far better - the improved dispersion of the FRFR meant that I only needed to be slightly louder on stage then I would normally choose, instead of being so loud that I could barely hear the rest of the band as had happened before.

 

Also loosing the conventional bass rig means that the bands' transport needs have been reduced. Instead of a fully loaded van one band now gets everyone and all our gear including the drum kit and the merch into two average-sized cars, while the other band (which has no drummer) gets the whole band plus our roadie/merch seller into a single estate car.

 

I can see bassists that play in bands with their own (mostly vocal only) PA not wanting to go this route. Personally from my experience playing in a band that owned its own PA, it was IMO an expensive hassle and I won't ever go back to doing those sorts of gigs.

[warwickhunt]

I've tried ampless and if it works for you it is apparently the end to all backline GAS... you just have GAS for the latest pedal and/or IE.

 

However, I didn't like it and I've reverted back to my amp/cab and my custom moulded ear plugs.  What I am going to do is get new plugs as mine are 10 years old and though still in good condition, I think my ears have changed shape and they don't fit as well.  

 

Each to their own and 'vive la difference' as the Scottish would say!

[joel406]

15 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

IEM scare me to death for the potential for a system out of my control to blow out my ears with one mistake.

That can't happen. Modern IEMs are controlled by their user. With a laptop, tablet or smart phone you have complete control of volume and your EQ. If you blow your ears out, you are the one to blame.

[warwickhunt]

19 minutes ago, joel406 said:

That can't happen. Modern IEMs are controlled by their user. With a laptop, tablet or smart phone you have complete control of volume and your EQ. If you blow your ears out, you are the one to blame.

 

Whilst I agree with the thrust of that, I know of several occasions when someone has gone into their phone/pad to change settings to their Aux... and adjusted the wrong one.    

 

People should know better... but they are people!  

[joel406]

17 hours ago, Jack said:

It's like, the trendiest topic. 

I've seen a few threads. But they quickly degrade into disdain for IEMs. One chap even said putting them in his head would result in him ripping them out and throwing them across the room. A very toddler Ish reaction. While many have embraced IEMs there are more (it seems) that are unwilling to even try them. A lack of understanding how they work seems the underlying problem. Personally, I have been playing since the 70's and admittingly was apprehensive and slow moving to IEMs. But once I made the decision to at least try them, I wondered what took so long. Bass response is staggeringly great. And the clarity is unmatched. I understand that not everyone can afford quality equipment. A good set of IEMs with just 5 drivers can easily run upwards of $500+ usd. And a decent wireless unit is a minimum of $850 usd. Not everyone is about that. But when you look at what we spend on inefficient amps. That pales in comparison to the tone of IEMs the expense is very justified. Yes, I still own amps. A throw back from a dying era. And I will keep them (maybe). The Mesa Subway D-800+ and my Epifani UL901 are amazing. Paired with either my Mesa Subway 212 cabs. Or my Mesa Subway 410 cabs. They outshine anything out there. But the Quadcortex and the C.A.B. M have them on file. And now I can have them easily available without having to transport them. The biggest benefit of IEMs (to me) was being able to move anywhere I wanted to, without having a change in sound. Tone doesn't change as well as the mix. You can go to the toilet and your sound remains the same. 

 

Long post... sorry.

 

 

But there is a lot of ignorance out there in regards to IEMs. People hate change. Even when it's for the better.

[warwickhunt]

8 minutes ago, joel406 said:

I've seen a few threads. But they quickly degrade into disdain for IEMs. One chap even said putting them in his head would result in him ripping them out and throwing them across the room. A very toddler Ish reaction. While many have embraced IEMs there are more (it seems) that are unwilling to even try them. A lack of understanding how they work seems the underlying problem. Personally, I have been playing since the 70's and admittingly was apprehensive and slow moving to IEMs. But once I made the decision to at least try them, I wondered what took so long. Bass response is staggeringly great. And the clarity is unmatched. I understand that not everyone can afford quality equipment. A good set of IEMs with just 5 drivers can easily run upwards of $500+ usd. And a decent wireless unit is a minimum of $850 usd. Not everyone is about that. But when you look at what we spend on inefficient amps. That pales in comparison to the tone of IEMs the expense is very justified. Yes, I still own amps. A throw back from a dying era. And I will keep them (maybe). The Mesa Subway D-800+ and my Epifani UL901 are amazing. Paired with either my Mesa Subway 212 cabs. Or my Mesa Subway 410 cabs. They outshine anything out there. But the Quadcortex and the C.A.B. M have them on file. And now I can have them easily available without having to transport them. The biggest benefit of IEMs (to me) was being able to move anywhere I wanted to, without having a change in sound. Tone doesn't change as well as the mix. You can go to the toilet and your sound remains the same. 

 

Long post... sorry.

 

 

But there is a lot of ignorance out there in regards to IEMs. People hate change. Even when it's for the better.

 

...and others are allowed to disagree.

 

Short post... sorry.

[xgsjx]

IEMs aren’t for everyone. Just like 5 string basses, valve amps & dirt pedals. 
They’re just a tool. Most professional players use them, even if it’s just for a click & audio cues. 
I don’t mind using them, but I prefer fold back or backline to hear the mix. 

[MrDinsdale]

A decent preamp like the Ampeg would sound excellent 👌 

[vsmith1]

I used to use an Ampeg SCR-DI as my amp-less setup, with IEMs. I wasn't overly happy with the Scrambler on the few songs with some grit. But it served me very well. I particularly liked using it with a RipCord USB 9V cable and USB power bank, as I didn't need to run out a mains connection near the front. 
 

I sold the SCR-DI and got a GK Plex, I am personally happier with that range of tones (especially the grit), but nothing fundamentally wrong with the SCR-DI.

[vsmith1]

On 22/08/2023 at 00:25, Downunderwonder said:

IEM scare me to death for the potential for a system out of my control to blow out my ears with one mistake.

That's why the unit that drives the in-ear 'phones should have a limiter. That's whether it is wired or wireless. A mere headphone amp usually does not have a limiter circuit. 

 

[BassmanPaul]

I just wonder if the PA Mains are able to handle bass at volume. If not all else is moot.

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by BassmanPaul
Mistype! :)

[Downunderwonder]

8 hours ago, vsmith1 said:

That's why the unit that drives the in-ear 'phones should have a limiter. That's whether it is wired or wireless. A mere headphone amp usually does not have a limiter circuit. 

 

Precisely why they scare me to death. It's all very well to set levels on an output but an accidental overload from back up the line is game over.

[joel406]

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Precisely why they scare me to death. It's all very well to set levels on an output but an accidental overload from back up the line is game over.

Never happens.

[Downunderwonder]

32 minutes ago, joel406 said:

Never happens.

Has happened.

[xgsjx]

12 hours ago, BassmanPaul said:

I just wonder if the PA Mains are able to handle bass at volume. If not all else is moot.

 

I don’t get what you mean?

If you mean the main FoH PA, then it really depends, just like it would if you only used backline. 
But if it’s a decent main PA, then I would certainly hope so. 

[EBS_freak]

On 22/08/2023 at 15:57, joel406 said:

I've seen a few threads. But they quickly degrade into disdain for IEMs. One chap even said putting them in his head would result in him ripping them out and throwing them across the room. A very toddler Ish reaction. While many have embraced IEMs there are more (it seems) that are unwilling to even try them. A lack of understanding how they work seems the underlying problem. Personally, I have been playing since the 70's and admittingly was apprehensive and slow moving to IEMs. But once I made the decision to at least try them, I wondered what took so long. Bass response is staggeringly great. And the clarity is unmatched. I understand that not everyone can afford quality equipment. A good set of IEMs with just 5 drivers can easily run upwards of $500+ usd. And a decent wireless unit is a minimum of $850 usd. Not everyone is about that. But when you look at what we spend on inefficient amps. That pales in comparison to the tone of IEMs the expense is very justified. Yes, I still own amps. A throw back from a dying era. And I will keep them (maybe). The Mesa Subway D-800+ and my Epifani UL901 are amazing. Paired with either my Mesa Subway 212 cabs. Or my Mesa Subway 410 cabs. They outshine anything out there. But the Quadcortex and the C.A.B. M have them on file. And now I can have them easily available without having to transport them. The biggest benefit of IEMs (to me) was being able to move anywhere I wanted to, without having a change in sound. Tone doesn't change as well as the mix. You can go to the toilet and your sound remains the same. 

 

Long post... sorry.

 

 

But there is a lot of ignorance out there in regards to IEMs. People hate change. Even when it's for the better.

55.6k views in the buoyant IEM Bible thread. There's plenty of interest - mindset change is the hardest, and of course, the user experience is only as good as the sum of the components. If your mixer cant hack it, you haven't got the FoH oomph to put your bass through and your IEMs are rubbish (e.g. the phones you get free with your phone), then yeah, results are going to be variable.