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Jean-Luc Pickguard

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For a long time my always-on compressor or choice was a cheapo Behringer BLE100 Bass Limiter Enhancer. A few years ago I 'upgraded' to a TC Spectracomp and have had that on my board since.

 

A few weeks ago I saw a Boss LMB-3, The pedal the BLE100 is a clone of, at good price and as I felt nostalgic I bought it to see how it compared. I put in on my board with the same settings I favoured on the BLE—all knobs at 12:00 and it just 'felt' right and sounded natural and transparent.

 

It feels a bit like a step backwards but the spectracomp is off the board for now and the LMB-3 is staying put.

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Another unashamed LMB-3 fanboy here! It was one of the first pedal compressors I used some 20 odd years ago after coming from the dual band compressor on the Trace Elliot SMX* amp I'd had for years before. I gigged my first LMB for a few years and then decided that I needed something 'better' i.e. more expensive, and so I wandered off down a long and costly road of trying and owning many, many different compressors including a couple of rack units, some but not all of the top tier pedal comps, both analogue and digital, some multi-band, some with clean blends, some coloured, some transparent and so on. All these helped me to identify exactly what I wanted from a compressor. A couple of years ago I had the opportunity to pick up a new LMB-3 for very little cash, I grabbed it more out of sentiment as I had good memories of my first one but as soon as I fired it up it just felt right, it was giving me exactly what I'd been trying to get from all the other units, some were closer than others with a notable mention to the Darkglass Hyper Luminal (cheers @krispn👍) on the Buss setting being the closest to what I was chasing. The Boss is a simple pedal, it's cheap and it doesn't do anything flash or have the advanced features of more sophisticated units - indeed one of its four controls is useless unless you really need to add some hiss to your signal - but it is a superb sounding little unit, IMO/IME and the punchiest one out of all that I've tried. It's not totally transparent but doesn't colour your sound noticeably either. But it just sound right to me, it's quick and easy to dial in, it keeps my signal in check and adds a pleasing punch to the mids that always brings a smile to my little yellow plastic face 😀

 

 

*Don't believe the hype on the TE SMX amps, mine at least was terrible, absolutely gutless and no matter what you did with the multitude of tone shaping controls it just made you sound like Mark King, but with no low end as well as that endless void in the mids. So in reality it was just a treble booster that was unnecessarily heavy! I had the misfortune of playing through another at a shared gig around 10 years ago and it sounded just as bad. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 03/12/2022 at 07:40, Osiris said:

*Don't believe the hype on the TE SMX amps, mine at least was terrible, absolutely gutless and no matter what you did with the multitude of tone shaping controls it just made you sound like Mark King, but with no low end as well as that endless void in the mids. So in reality it was just a treble booster that was unnecessarily heavy! I had the misfortune of playing through another at a shared gig around 10 years ago and it sounded just as bad. 

:facepalm:

 

User error!

 

The old Trace Elliot bass amps sounds absolutely amazing, that is if you don't engage the mid scooping Pre Shape buttons, which you obviously did.

 

If you don't like mid scooped tone, which I don't do either, then don't scoop the mids (in this case engaging the mid scoop button), simple as that!

 

Not the amp's fault you dialed it in with a tone you didn't like, when it was perfectly capable at other settings that definitely doesn't sound like what you describe.

 

Everything is crap if you insist on dialing in a tone you don't like.

 

 

Edited by Baloney Balderdash
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15 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

:facepalm:

 

User error!

 

The old Trace Elliot bass amps sounds absolutely amazing, that is if you don't engage the mid scooping Pre Shape buttons, which you obviously did.

 

If you don't like mid scooped tone, which I don't do either, then don't scoop the mids (in this case engaging the mid scoop button), simple as that!

 

Not the amps fault you dialed it in with a tone you didn't like, when it was perfectly capable at other settings that definitely doesn't sound like what you describe.

 

Everything is crap if you insist on dialing in a tone you don't like.

 

 

I have used more trace amps than anything else over the years (mostly 7 band pre).

I can confirm even with the pre shape/s off it can sometimes be very hard to get a nice sound if you aren’t wanting the trace type sound 

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Still using my LMB3 and its the only compressor/limiter I've used since I sold my old MXR M143 limiter. The M143 was the best pedal comp/limiter i've ever used and haven't found anything to match it. The LMB3 does a good job though and the thing about both pedals is I think they did colour the tone slightly and enabled me to have 'my' sound. Done the spectracomp thing as well as a few other things and none were particularly bad at what they did, I just prefer what the LMB3 does. Been on my board for about eight years now and was used when I bought it back then. No issues with reliability either.

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4 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

:facepalm:

 

User error!

 

The old Trace Elliot bass amps sounds absolutely amazing, that is if you don't engage the mid scooping Pre Shape buttons, which you obviously did.

 

If you don't like mid scooped tone, which I don't do either, then don't scoop the mids (in this case engaging the mid scoop button), simple as that!

 

Not the amps fault you dialed it in with a tone you didn't like, when it was perfectly capable at other settings that definitely doesn't sound like what you describe.

 

Everything is crap if you insist on dialing in a tone you don't like.

 

 

 

Thank you for your patronising and condescending post, as charming and adorable as it is. :facepalm:

 

By way of response here's a little extra background information, although the reasonable part of my brain is telling me just to ignore you. More on that later. 

 

I've been playing bass and gigging for some 40 odd years, maybe 10 years or so before owning the Trace rig, which I bought new in the early 90's. Now while I don't consider myself an expert on anything bass related I have picked up a few things over the years, including the basics of how to use an EQ as well as what constitutes a workable, usable tone when playing with other musicians. Obviously I wouldn't have been so clued up on bass tone at the point of buying the rig and have vague recollections of being caught up in the hype at the time as it was the rig to been seen with. I have played through many different amps over the years from cheap and cheerful starter amps through to high end gear, and have been able to get a usable sound from just about all of them. Notice I say a usable sound, that's because I'm not trying to get 'my sound' because what sounds good when I'm noodling away at home doesn't necessarily translate to what sounds good and/or works in the mix with a band. I consider myself a 'live' bass player and have played hundreds and hundreds of gigs over the years with many different musicians. So I EQ in a sound that works with whatever is going on around me. But most amps have a baked in sound and some of them take more time to dial in than others. And one or two haven't been able to give me what I needed no matter what, and one of those happens to be the Trace Elliot SMX I owned and gigged for some 10 years as well as the other SMX rig that I mentioned. During the years of ownership - believe it or not - it did actually cross my mind to try tweaking the EQ and various other controls to try and get some other sounds out of it, and I did exactly that on countless occasions. Yup, I really did, I even tried switching the mid scoop button in and out 👍. But no matter what I did with the various EQ options, pre-shape buttons, tilt control, pre-amp voicings etc it just had this constant baked in sound that sounded weak and gutless to me, there was no noticeable weight/heft in the lows, at least none that projected through the pair of Trace 1153 cabs that I was using, there was an ever-present mid scoop that even a sad face graphic EQ curve could seem to fully alleviate at least not in any meaningful way to my ears, and there was an ever present fatiguing spike in the upper mids/treble that I could never fully attenuate either.

 

There is of course the possibility that my amp was faulty in some way, or maybe it was Friday afternoon special put together when the Trace guys got back from the pub? Are there any any known faults with the SMX series that match what I was describing it'd be helpful to know that, why not share that information if you have it?

 

But I grew to hate the amp with a passion and if could have afforded to replace it sooner than I did then I gladly would have done. Since then I have played through a Trace combo, not sure of the model number but it was the simpler 7 band EQ model, and that had all the punch and weight that TE are renowned for, it was indeed a great sounding amp - but it was also the polar opposite to what I could get from the SMX during the years that I owned it. So I'm not anti TE, just anti the SMX series simply because the 2 different ones that I have played over the years sounded gutless, more like a guitar amp than a bass amp. That's just my experience and yours in obviously different, and that's great. But why not share your experience instead of assuming that I don't know my arse from my elbow? Surely that's the point of a forum like this? Or maybe seek some clarification on the assumptions you immediately made - including the one that I had no idea what I was doing? That would have been more helpful and maybe even have helped to make yourself look less of an arrogant tool who posts ill considered knee-jerk responses? 

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion - just as I am entitled to mine. And yes, maybe if I'd have added an emoji or 2 to my original comment it would have made it clear that the comment was intended tongue-in-cheek, even though it's still my opinion that the SMX remains the biggest turd of an amp I have ever played through. It looked great, and I liked the dual band compressor, but that was it, IMO/IME. 

 

Congratulations, you have the dubious honour of becoming the first person in my 14 years on Basschat to be added to my ignore list. :facepalm:

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8 minutes ago, Osiris said:

 

Thank you for your patronising and condescending post, as charming and adorable as it is. :facepalm:

 

By way of response here's a little extra background information, although the reasonable part of my brain is telling me just to ignore you. More on that later. 

 

I've been playing bass and gigging for some 40 odd years, maybe 10 years or so before owning the Trace rig, which I bought new in the early 90's. Now while I don't consider myself an expert on anything bass related I have picked up a few things over the years, including the basics of how to use an EQ as well as what constitutes a workable, usable tone when playing with other musicians. Obviously I wouldn't have been so clued up on bass tone at the point of buying the rig and have vague recollections of being caught up in the hype at the time as it was the rig to been seen with. I have played through many different amps over the years from cheap and cheerful starter amps through to high end gear, and have been able to get a usable sound from just about all of them. Notice I say a usable sound, that's because I'm not trying to get 'my sound' because what sounds good when I'm noodling away at home doesn't necessarily translate to what sounds good and/or works in the mix with a band. I consider myself a 'live' bass player and have played hundreds and hundreds of gigs over the years with many different musicians. So I EQ in a sound that works with whatever is going on around me. But most amps have a baked in sound and some of them take more time to dial in than others. And one or two haven't been able to give me what I needed no matter what, and one of those happens to be the Trace Elliot SMX I owned and gigged for some 10 years as well as the other SMX rig that I mentioned. During the years of ownership - believe it or not - it did actually cross my mind to try tweaking the EQ and various other controls to try and get some other sounds out of it, and I did exactly that on countless occasions. Yup, I really did, I even tried switching the mid scoop button in and out 👍. But no matter what I did with the various EQ options, pre-shape buttons, tilt control, pre-amp voicings etc it just had this constant baked in sound that sounded weak and gutless to me, there was no noticeable weight/heft in the lows, at least none that projected through the pair of Trace 1153 cabs that I was using, there was an ever-present mid scoop that even a sad face graphic EQ curve could seem to fully alleviate at least not in any meaningful way to my ears, and there was an ever present fatiguing spike in the upper mids/treble that I could never fully attenuate either.

 

There is of course the possibility that my amp was faulty in some way, or maybe it was Friday afternoon special put together when the Trace guys got back from the pub? Are there any any known faults with the SMX series that match what I was describing it'd be helpful to know that, why not share that information if you have it?

 

But I grew to hate the amp with a passion and if could have afforded to replace it sooner than I did then I gladly would have done. Since then I have played through a Trace combo, not sure of the model number but it was the simpler 7 band EQ model, and that had all the punch and weight that TE are renowned for, it was indeed a great sounding amp - but it was also the polar opposite to what I could get from the SMX during the years that I owned it. So I'm not anti TE, just anti the SMX series simply because the 2 different ones that I have played over the years sounded gutless, more like a guitar amp than a bass amp. That's just my experience and yours in obviously different, and that's great. But why not share your experience instead of assuming that I don't know my arse from my elbow? Surely that's the point of a forum like this? Or maybe seek some clarification on the assumptions you immediately made - including the one that I had no idea what I was doing? That would have been more helpful and maybe even have helped to make yourself look less of an arrogant tool who posts ill considered knee-jerk responses? 

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion - just as I am entitled to mine. And yes, maybe if I'd have added an emoji or 2 to my original comment it would have made it clear that the comment was intended tongue-in-cheek, even though it's still my opinion that the SMX remains the biggest turd of an amp I have ever played through. It looked great, and I liked the dual band compressor, but that was it, IMO/IME. 

 

Congratulations, you have the dubious honour of becoming the first person in my 14 years on Basschat to be added to my ignore list. :facepalm:


In short - i have spoken with @Osiris at length over the years on all bass related issues - and we differ on approaches and sounds but have a commonality on our themes.

 

He knows his onions theoretically and practically, nothing said is a cack handed glib comment without substance, the fact @Baloney Balderdash he wrote a reply detailing this shows this.

 

Now I know I always ‘sound’ good no matter what I do cos my gear is ace, BUT, I play like crap - that’s all my fault.

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1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:


In short - i have spoken with @Osiris at length over the years on all bass related issues - and we differ on approaches and sounds but have a commonality on our themes.

 

He knows his onions theoretically and practically, nothing said is a cack handed glib comment without substance, the fact @Baloney Balderdash he wrote a reply detailing this shows this.

 

Now I know I always ‘sound’ good no matter what I do cos my gear is ace, BUT, I play like crap - that’s all my fault.

In my defense how he described the tone of the Trace Elliot in the post I responded to initially it did very much sound like he was describing how a Trace Elliot sound with the pre shape button engaged, and very very far from how I would describe the tone of the older Trace Elliot amps when the pre shape button has not been engaged, in fact almost quite the opposite, I quote: "...absolutely gutless.... ...no low end as well as that endless void in the mids..."

 

In other words I could simply not recognize how he described the tone at all from my personal experience with Trace Elliot amps, unless he was describing the sound with the pre shape button engaged.

 

It was not just the fact of him not liking the tone, we all have different personal preferences, and thank God for that (that doesn't however make everything that doesn't fit our personal taste, I quote: "terrible", and one should be able to recognize the difference, especially as a musician with as much experience as he claims he has).

 

At least I know now who not to trust when they are describing the tone produced by anything.

 

But you are perfectly right I don't know anyone on this forum personally, but I was of the impression that it was not a private club, apparently I was wrong about that assumption.

 

I just hope that everyone haven't put me on ignore at this point because they don't know me, cause else I'd rather not waste my time writing here.

 

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TLDR version:

- some gear that people love, other people hate. 
- somethings have settings that people might move from hate to love with. Depending on their experience these people might need help

- If trying to help people tone of voice is important 

- this is the internet, at least nobody has mentioned Hitler yet.

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I’ve just bought a secondhand LMB-3 to put together an old style Boss BCB-30 board. TU-2, LMB-3 and SYB-5.

 

This is only my second compressor ever. I’m using a vintage P bass through a Mark Bass LM3 and a Barefaced One10 at the moment. I have a TE Elf head on the way though. It’s a low volume contemporary jazz band I’m doing. 
 

For those that have experience of the LMB-3, can you give me some pointers on where to start with it? I just want it to even out my inconsistencies, give me a little punch (but not top end), but still allow a bit of dynamic in my playing when I need it.

 

Cheers,

Rob

 

PS. The SYB-5 is just for one tune at the moment, Chameleon by Herbie Hancock. I’m right in thinking this should be last in the chain aren’t I?

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36 minutes ago, ossyrocks said:

I’ve just bought a secondhand LMB-3 to put together an old style Boss BCB-30 board. TU-2, LMB-3 and SYB-5.

 

This is only my second compressor ever. I’m using a vintage P bass through a Mark Bass LM3 and a Barefaced One10 at the moment. I have a TE Elf head on the way though. It’s a low volume contemporary jazz band I’m doing. 
 

For those that have experience of the LMB-3, can you give me some pointers on where to start with it? I just want it to even out my inconsistencies, give me a little punch (but not top end), but still allow a bit of dynamic in my playing when I need it.

 

Cheers,

Rob

 

PS. The SYB-5 is just for one tune at the moment, Chameleon by Herbie Hancock. I’m right in thinking this should be last in the chain aren’t I?

 

Giving someone recommended settings for a compressor is always a tough one as there's so many variables such as how hard you play, the output of the bass, whether there's anything else going on in the signal chain, plus loads of other factors. But I'm happy to try to give you some pointers but these are generalisations and you'll need to fine tune them to optimise them for your set up. 

 

First up, the Enhancer control. I personally don't like it, it adds an artificial edge to the treble, scoops the mids, and adds a fair bit of hiss. I keep it off but if you like what it does then adjust to taste, but less is more with it, IMO.

 

Volume, I set mine to unity so that it's the same volume whether on or off. I leave the pedal on all the time but don't want to overload anything further on by adding a volume boost. 

 

Ratio and Threshold are the tricky ones. For me and the way I play the optimum ratio setting is at around 10 to 11 o'clock~ish, this setting keeps the signal consistent, adds some weight to the overall tone but still allows plenty of dynamics. The Ratio controls how much the signal is compressed once it hits the threshold. I've no idea what the actual ratio is at these settings as it's not printed on the pedal but having used lots of comps over the years it feels like it's around 3:1 to 4:1~ish which is perfect for most bass applications.

 

Threshold is the most difficult to get right as this sets the point at which the compression works on the signal. With the Threshold fully counter clockwise you at the lowest threshold which will squash everything you play. The more you turn the control clockwise the more the threshold is raised, meaning the hotter the signal needs to be to cross the threshold. In short, the minimum control position, 7 o'clock, is the threshold maxed out flattening everything, and the control fully open is the minimum/off setting. A good rule of thumb is adjust the threshold so that it catches the peaks but lets the 'normal' signal level through. There's no metering on the LMB so you need to do this by ear and that's something you have to get a feel for. Keep playing with it until you feel the sound tightening up but not getting overly squashed. For me this is around 3 o'clock~ish on my hottest bass, closer to 2 o'clock for my other basses. But the right setting for you is something you'll need to work for yourself, keep tweaking until you get there ;)

 

Hope this helps 👍

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5 minutes ago, Osiris said:

 

Giving someone recommended settings for a compressor is always a tough one as there's so many variables such as how hard you play, the output of the bass, whether there's anything else going on in the signal chain, plus loads of other factors. But I'm happy to try to give you some pointers but these are generalisations and you'll need to fine tune them to optimise them for your set up. 

 

First up, the Enhancer control. I personally don't like it, it adds an artificial edge to the treble, scoops the mids, and adds a fair bit of hiss. I keep it off but if you like what it does then adjust to taste, but less is more with it, IMO.

 

Volume, I set mine to unity so that it's the same volume whether on or off. I leave the pedal on all the time but don't want to overload anything further on by adding a volume boost. 

 

Ratio and Threshold are the tricky ones. For me and the way I play the optimum ratio setting is at around 10 to 11 o'clock~ish, this setting keeps the signal consistent, adds some weight to the overall tone but still allows plenty of dynamics. The Ratio controls how much the signal is compressed once it hits the threshold. I've no idea what the actual ratio is at these settings as it's not printed on the pedal but having used lots of comps over the years it feels like it's around 3:1 to 4:1~ish which is perfect for most bass applications.

 

Threshold is the most difficult to get right as this sets the point at which the compression works on the signal. With the Threshold fully counter clockwise you at the lowest threshold which will squash everything you play. The more you turn the control clockwise the more the threshold is raised, meaning the hotter the signal needs to be to cross the threshold. In short, the minimum control position, 7 o'clock, is the threshold maxed out flattening everything, and the control fully open is the minimum/off setting. A good rule of thumb is adjust the threshold so that it catches the peaks but lets the 'normal' signal level through. There's no metering on the LMB so you need to do this by ear and that's something you have to get a feel for. Keep playing with it until you feel the sound tightening up but not getting overly squashed. For me this is around 3 o'clock~ish on my hottest bass, closer to 2 o'clock for my other basses. But the right setting for you is something you'll need to work for yourself, keep tweaking until you get there ;)

 

Hope this helps 👍

That’s great, thanks! I’m looking forward to getting used to it.

 

Rob

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1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

TLDR version:

- some gear that people love, other people hate. 
- somethings have settings that people might move from hate to love with. Depending on their experience these people might need help

- If trying to help people tone of voice is important 

- this is the internet, at least nobody has mentioned Hitler yet.

 

Is this an extract from the 2023 National Socialist manifesto?

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I think the only settings I can whole heartedly recommend is to have youer LMB3 switched on all the time and I like it last in line😁 Agree its a matter of fine tuning to however it suits the individual. I rarely change settings and might tweak the level depending on what amp I'm using. Thats usually an Ashdown ABM although I have been testing an old GK bass amp and found it can cope better with a bit more signal from the LMB3 without any detrimenal effect. Just had a look at my board from the last rehearsal and looks like this:

 

  IMG_1494.thumb.jpeg.e9a19ba0880a7d30d47cac28772aaf4a.jpeg

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5 hours ago, ossyrocks said:

I’ve just bought a secondhand LMB-3 to put together an old style Boss BCB-30 board. TU-2, LMB-3 and SYB-5.

 

This is only my second compressor ever. I’m using a vintage P bass through a Mark Bass LM3 and a Barefaced One10 at the moment. I have a TE Elf head on the way though. It’s a low volume contemporary jazz band I’m doing. 
 

For those that have experience of the LMB-3, can you give me some pointers on where to start with it? I just want it to even out my inconsistencies, give me a little punch (but not top end), but still allow a bit of dynamic in my playing when I need it.

 

Cheers,

Rob

 

PS. The SYB-5 is just for one tune at the moment, Chameleon by Herbie Hancock. I’m right in thinking this should be last in the chain aren’t I?

My preference for both the behringer clone and the LMB-3 is to have all the knobs pointing north as it is easy to remember and sounds best to my ears. I use a Boss SY-1 synth which I guess is in a similar ballpark to your SYB-5. I have that pedal first in the chain with my thumpinator immediately after, the LMB-3 after that, and then a couple of dirt pedals last. Putting the synth first helped with it triggering smoothly and eliminating glitches.

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On 11/12/2022 at 15:07, ossyrocks said:

I’ve just bought a secondhand LMB-3 to put together an old style Boss BCB-30 board. TU-2, LMB-3 and SYB-5.

 

This is only my second compressor ever. I’m using a vintage P bass through a Mark Bass LM3 and a Barefaced One10 at the moment. I have a TE Elf head on the way though. It’s a low volume contemporary jazz band I’m doing. 
 

For those that have experience of the LMB-3, can you give me some pointers on where to start with it? I just want it to even out my inconsistencies, give me a little punch (but not top end), but still allow a bit of dynamic in my playing when I need it.

 

Cheers,

Rob

 

PS. The SYB-5 is just for one tune at the moment, Chameleon by Herbie Hancock. I’m right in thinking this should be last in the chain aren’t I?

Try these:

Enhance - 9 o’clock

Ratio - 9 o’clock

Threshold - 3 o’clock

 

i believe the enhance circuit scoops the tone as well as adding hiss, so I always had that turned down.  Ended up swapping the LMB-3 for a Hyper Luminal 

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Thanks for all the advice on the LMB-3, and sorry to have hijacked the thread a bit. I've received the one I bought on ebay this week and have just tried it out. It doesn't work!

Either on battery or 9v power, only the Level control functions, the rest of the controls have no effect on the sound whatsoever, in any position. I've requested a return via Ebay. A bit disappointed!

 

I'll put an ad in the Wanted Section.

 

Rob

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I use my LMB-3 always on, with Level at 1 o'clock, Enhance off, Ratio at noon and threshold at 10 o'clock. Just to show the wide variety of settings that people find useful. I haven't changed these settings in at least the last year. 

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21 hours ago, NHM said:

I use my LMB-3 always on, with Level at 1 o'clock, Enhance off, Ratio at noon and threshold at 10 o'clock. Just to show the wide variety of settings that people find useful. I haven't changed these settings in at least the last year. 

Thanks for that. This is pretty near where I’m ending up being. Rehearsals are starting up again next week, so I’ll see how I get on with it in a band setting.

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Do report back on what settings you end up with after trying things out in rehearsals.

The sound I'm looking for is a very pure, even, controlled sound. I play in a blues band and my playing style is fairly gently compared with other players, using fingers or pick. I try to let the amp to the work as much as possible. I've gone to the LMB-3 after trying a range of compressors over the years, and I think this does the job of lopping spikes better than anything I've tried.

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2 minutes ago, NHM said:

Do report back on what settings you end up with after trying things out in rehearsals.

The sound I'm looking for is a very pure, even, controlled sound. I play in a blues band and my playing style is fairly gently compared with other players, using fingers or pick. I try to let the amp to the work as much as possible. I've gone to the LMB-3 after trying a range of compressors over the years, and I think this does the job of lopping spikes better than anything I've tried.

Similar. I play a lot of blues in practice, and I’d love to find a blues band, but this band is contemporary jazz with a sax and trumpet. I want a really clean, smooth, rounded tone. I play with my fingers and try to play lightly. I use a P bass with the tone rolled all the way off. I think I need the LMB-3 to iron out some of my inconsistencies on faster stuff like The Chicken by Jaco. (I sound nothing like Jaco btw!)

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