Musicman20 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 [quote name='mikek' post='544465' date='Jul 19 2009, 02:37 AM']Hi Alex, I'd be interested in seeing a photo of a Midget on top of a Compact, plus the results of your testing.[/quote] +1 on any photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 What happens if I put a Midget on top of my Big One? (Please take the [i]"oo-er Missus"[/i] as read.) Will they complement or compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_pokkuri Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='545097' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:23 AM']What happens if I put a Midget on top of my Big One? Will they complement or compete?[/quote] Thats exactly what I was thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='545097' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:23 AM']What happens if I put a Midget on top of my Big One? (Please take the [i]"oo-er Missus"[/i] as read.) Will they complement or compete?[/quote] Well you could use one for a small gig and one for a big gig but I wouldn't recommend using both simultaneously - you might as well just throw more power at the Big One. Both at once will get more SPL out of a low powered head but it's a bit of a generic bodge, not like a Midget/Compact pairing. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='chris_pokkuri' post='545149' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:09 AM']Thats exactly what I was thinking![/quote] If you reach the limits of the LH1000/BigOne pairing then its time to give out earplugs to everyone at gigs, including those in adjacent buildings. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) [quote name='alexclaber' post='545151' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:11 AM']....Both at once will get more SPL out of a low powered head but it's a bit of a generic bodge....[/quote] What exactly does "a generic bodge" mean? Edited July 20, 2009 by chris_b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_pokkuri Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545157' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:22 AM']If you reach the limits of the LH1000/BigOne pairing then its time to give out earplugs to everyone at gigs, including those in adjacent buildings. Alex[/quote] Ha ha, yeah I dont think I need to go louder. GAS is a terrible affliction though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='545169' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:49 AM']What exactly does "a generic bodge" mean?[/quote] More speakers generally equals more sound, even when mismatched. But doing so messes with the tone and particularly the consistency of the tone from directly on-axis to well off-axis. So in this case it's an umbrella term for stacking cabs willy-nilly. It's not such an issue with traditional designs where seemingly little or no consideration has been given to off-axis performance but when a cab has been specifically designed to perform well in that respect then I'd rather not suggest throwing a Midget shaped spanner in the works! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545151' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:11 AM']Well you could use one for a small gig and one for a big gig but I wouldn't recommend using both simultaneously - you might as well just throw more power at the Big One. Both at once will get more SPL out of a low powered head but it's a bit of a generic bodge, not like a Midget/Compact pairing. Alex[/quote] Thanks Alex. I was thinking more in terms of using the Midget as an on-stage monitor to replace DI'ing my bass for foldback purposes. The Big One chucks out PLENTY of volume, but it has a very long "throw" and on the tiny stages I get to perform on I still struggle to hear it. Put my Zoom H2 at the back of the pub and the bass comes across clear as a bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='545293' date='Jul 20 2009, 01:44 PM']I was thinking more in terms of using the Midget as an on-stage monitor to replace DI'ing my bass for foldback purposes. The Big One chucks out PLENTY of volume, but it has a very long "throw" and on the tiny stages I get to perform on I still struggle to hear it. Put my Zoom H2 at the back of the pub and the bass comes across clear as a bell.[/quote] It doesn't have a long throw at all, in fact it's better up close than the Midget or the Compact, or in fact any other bass cab I know of. If you can't hear it clear up close then you simply don't have enough midrange in your tone. The only reason using an on-stage monitor is making your bass easier to hear is because the monitor is adding midrange through its own colouration. More midrange - or alternatively less bottom - is the answer! If I were you I'd simplify your signal chain as much as possible (which adds clarity by removing distortion artifacts etc), roll the tone knob back up a bit on your bass and then add a little muting so you get more clarity on the attack of the note. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I think I just jumped on the eminent Mr H. Jack a little too fiercely but the reason was that the Big One is specifically designed to have very wide dispersion and therefore be excellent in cramped spaces where you have poor PA support and monitoring. 'Very long throw' is exactly what it doesn't have. So in this situation it is without a doubt a question of operator error (which could also be a product of what HJ's bandmates are up to - though they'd have to be behaving fairly strangely). When musicians/sound engineers refer to speakers having long-throw they are usually making an incorrect assumption based on the speaker having too little midrange and treble and up close their ears are struggling to discern the tone from the lows alone in the denser onstage mix. Also the lows are not attenuated by the air, furnishings and audience members whilst the midrange and treble are, so any bottom heavy sound will carry further than a balanced sound. I know for a fact that the Big One has plenty of midrange and treble so in this case the source of the problem is the signal coming from the amp down the speaker lead, which may originate in the amp EQ, the instrument knob settings or indeed the player himself! The true meaning of 'throw' in a speaker is as the inverse of dispersion. A large PA main should have narrow dispersion to focus the sound to the audience and not send it off to the surrounding campsites or venue walls. A small PA speaker should have wide dispersion to spread the sound around the typically more weird shaped smaller venues and to get it to the very up-close audience as well as to those stuck in a corner or at the far end of the venue, and do so with reasonably consistent response. Likewise onstage monitoring equipment should have wide dispersion so everyone can hear each other clearly (but most guitar amps are appalling and most bass cabs aren't great either). Quite simply the Big One completely blows away every bass cab I've ever heard in helping you hear yourself well onstage without compromising your tone to do so. Fact. Anything else is humans messing up! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 And something else. The Big One has lower distortion through the lows and mids than normal bass cabs so it doesn't synthesise a whole load of extra midrange. In other words, use similar EQ at similar SPL on say a typical 4x10" and due to the difference in frequency response you'll get less bottom, more midrange (though with humps and troughs) and more treble, whilst the difference in distortion levels will mean you'll get even less bottom, yet more toothy midrange and yet more treble. Therefore a clean sheet of paper is required when finding your sound. Set everything flat and go from there - the cab is very responsive so small EQ tweaks will have a big effect. If you don't know what flat is for your particular amp (it's not always 0,0,0,0 etc) then ask me, I seem to have replaced the part of my brain that should remember where I put my wallet/keys/car etc with a filing system for storing such enthralling data. I've recently started completely rewriting the manual to address all this sort of stuff in a more accessible way but it does get rather deep if you're not careful... Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Thanks Alex - I'm printing this lot off and taking it along to rehearsal tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='545357' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:04 PM']Thanks Alex - I'm printing this lot off and taking it along to rehearsal tonight![/quote] Keep it in your gigbag to scare any punters that claim bass is easy, "ah but you need an astrophysics degree to play root notes..." A simpler approach which should usually work is: "Set amp EQ flat, set instrument EQ/tone flat, select neck pickup, play, listen, change how/where you're plucking if need be. If technique changes unsuccessful then select both pickups equally if less midrange wanted or bridge pickup soloed if more high midrange wanted. Roll off passive tone/treble slightly if it's too bright but always err on the side of brightness, it rapidly vanishes once the band is cranking. If it's too boomy turn lows or low mids down on amp a smidgeon, if it's too thin turn same up a smidgeon. Knob tweaking is bad, listening and reacting with your touch is good." To hear how important midrange texture is on old school bass sounds get hold of Standing In The Shadows Of Motown and check out quite how gnarly Jamerson's tone is when soloed. As Chuck Rainey said of his own similar style of a playing (IIRC), paraphrasing: "if you solo one of my basslines on a studio recording there's so much percussive noise, squeaking, clanking, rattling etc on there that it sounds like someone's working on a car in the background". Also, although this is getting into the zen of bass playing, if you think your basslines with clarity and conviction as you play them, that will come through in how they are heard. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Correction, Chuck didn't say it, his longstanding recording engineer did: "Good bass players' tracks always sound noisy when soloed. Chuck Rainey's tracks sound like someone's working on a Buick in the background. But plug it into the mix, and the magic is there." [url="http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryId/32/A-Kick-in-the-Bass.aspx"]http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/E...n-the-Bass.aspx[/url] Alex P.S. Why didn't he say car instead of Buick? Thought google was going to fail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I see they say that getting a good bass sound is one of the hardest things when recording. I've always found it an absolute doddle, pick up bass, plug in, play, done - so I must be doing something right! I spend a thousand times as long getting the drums sorted. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 You know this was meant to be neat, tidy and concise thread to inform potential customers of current and forthcoming stock. Talk about self-sabotage. Move along now... Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545390' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:36 PM']You know this was meant to be neat, tidy and concise thread to inform potential customers of current and forthcoming stock. Talk about self-sabotage. Move along now...[/quote] Will you stop talking to yourself! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545391' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:37 PM']Will you stop talking to yourself! Alex[/quote] Don't panic.... others are listening as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545389' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:35 PM']I see they say that getting a good bass sound is one of the hardest things when recording. I've always found it an absolute doddle, pick up bass, plug in, play, done - so I must be doing something right! I spend a thousand times as long getting the drums sorted. Alex[/quote] +1. I just always find a clean technique and a good quality bass are all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545253' date='Jul 20 2009, 01:06 PM']More speakers generally equals more sound. But it's an umbrella term for stacking cabs willy-nilly. It's traditional designs where seemingly little or no consideration has been given to off-axis performance but I'd suggest throwing a Midget! Alex[/quote] Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545391' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:37 PM']Will you stop talking to yourself! Alex[/quote] Do some work!!! Well, not now, it's after 8, but if it's 3.30pm and you're talking to yourself on here, do some work!! Updated manual when it's ready please! Oh, and I spotted a smelling pistake in the last one but can't remember where it was. Can I proof-read the new one and get a free Midget?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='545390' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:36 PM']You know this was meant to be neat, tidy and concise thread to inform potential customers of current and forthcoming stock. Talk about self-sabotage. Move along now... Alex[/quote] In a vain attempt to drag you back on topic, when will Midgets be available and what about Big Baby ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='Merton' post='545684' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:05 PM']Updated manual when it's ready please! Oh, and I spotted a smelling pistake in the last one but can't remember where it was. Can I proof-read the new one and get a free Midget?! [/quote] There's a manual? No manual with my Vintage. (No port plugs either, but I assume Alex is beavering away on them now he's clearly back with a vengeance. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) [quote name='BottomEndian' post='545834' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:45 PM']There's a manual? No manual with my Vintage. [/quote] Indeed I have omitted to send it to everyone because the pm system here doesn't allow attachments and I haven't got everyone's email addresses so it's all gone a bit awry, and now I can't remember who has it and who doesn't! If you don't have it then email me and I will send you one! Port plugs bit noted! Alex Edited July 21, 2009 by alexclaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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