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Eldon Tyrell

New EBMM Stingray Special Colours and Prices

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8 hours ago, Ian McFly said:

Anyway, moving on from the Stingray realm and sound, I’ll get back to what I love the most, in the bass world: Jazz-like basses. 
 

If you want to stay in the EBMM world, you may want to check out the Caprice, EBMM's take on the Jazz bass. I have never played one but I own the Cutlass (EBMM's take on the P bass) and it is a killer bass: very well made, lovely neck (one of the best I have ever played), not too heavy and a P bass sound on steroids. Amazing bass. There is one Caprice on sale here on BC at the moment (in white). Here is a video showing both the Caprice and the Cutlass:

 

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32 minutes ago, Ian McFly said:

Ok, so it's not to do with Brexit as apparently the import duty has gone down.

Also, the dollar/pound change rate has changed in a year... but not the way it should to explain that increase. Indeed, a year ago, a $2200 Stingray would be £1692 (I know, it's not how it works but all I'm doing here is a simple rate calculation).

Now, January 2021, the same $2200 Stingray should be £1605. So prices shouldn't have gone up in that regard. 

 

BUT, let's take into consideration the US price increase. OK, so let's take the exact same model:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StRay4HESC--ernie-ball-music-man-stingray-special-bass-guitar-smoked-chrome-with-ebony-fingerboard

 

https://www.andertons.co.uk/music-man-stingray-special-smoked-chrome-roasted-maple-ebony-black-headstock-black-pg-black-hardware

 

If you take the american price, $2,399, it translates to £1,750. It is actually sold £2,899 !!!

Yes, I understand you've got to add import taxes, shipping, etc.... but still! That's a staggering difference. And I also know that most USA states add their own tax on top of the price so it's not an actual reflection, but that changes from state to state, plus some states don't even have a tax on goods....

 

Anyways, I'm just stunned....

I'm wondering if Westside are now doing the distribution....

:ph34r:

 

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8 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

If you want to stay in the EBMM world, you may want to check out the Caprice, EBMM's take on the Jazz bass. I have never played one but I own the Cutlass (EBMM's take on the P bass) and it is a killer bass: very well made, lovely neck (one of the best I have ever played), not too heavy and a P bass sound on steroids. Amazing bass. There is one Caprice on sale here on BC at the moment (in white). Here is a video showing both the Caprice and the Cutlass:

 

I had been GASing form a Caprice years ago... unfortunately I can't afford a bass "now" so I'll have to pass on it.

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44 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I'm wondering if Westside are now doing the distribution....

:ph34r:

 

I was about to say the same thing! :D 

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2 hours ago, LeftyJ said:

To be fair, so is a "Teambuilt", and even a "Masterbuilt", Warwick: they're CNC-routed, in standardised shapes with run-off-the-mill hardware and electronics. Of course there's a lot of attention to detail, and a lot of manual labour still goes into the fit and finish of each instrument. But in my opinion it really doesn't justify why they're so wickedly expensive. That Streamer Stage II posted above is to die for, but 4000 pounds? And this one is over 7000! :o

I think in fairness you can only compare these Musicman basses being discussed here to the Teambuilt Warwick basses, which are still very good at a workable price point.  I guess you'd compare the Masterbuilt to the super special editions Musicman make, ball family reserve etc, and we don't know the new prices of those yet.

That workable price point is now less than Musicman, yet a few years ago Warwick were lambasted for the cost of the German instruments, of which a Teambuilt is.

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2 hours ago, Kiwi said:

I forgot to mention the impact on second hand instruments as well.  Watch those climb in the same way they did for Warwick and (perhaps more understandably) Wal. 

Wal is a whole different game, Used prices (particularly in the US) now regularly exceed the new cost, sometimes by some way.  There have been several examples that have sold for $15,000 over the last 12 months.  Absolutely insane.

But not as insane as a £3k white stingray 😉

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3k? Just over six years ago I managed to snag one of the last ‘133 series’ 2EQ StingRays in black with a rosewood board for £1099 brand new.

 

 

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I posted this on Talkbass

 

Well, I was gonna get a Special 4HH, thinking it would be roughly £2200 tops. Not getting one anymore at this actual price. They’ve lost me as a customer. 
Now, you could be like “who cares”, and think they’ll still have loads of customers to buy their instruments.... fact is: they won’t. It’s 2021, we’re in the middle of a freaking pandemic, and some of the most impacted people are musicians. What we love to do, which is playing music for audiences, cannot happen. Some of us (not me) do that for a living. There’s no job in that field at the moment. 
So, how can you justify a 43% price increase on an instrument which has NOT evolved since last year (except new colors)? 
What has changed in their building process and costs, to justify that increase?
Consequently, how can you expect severely impacted musicians, who have no idea when live music (or even practice) will resume, to swallow up a 43% price increase when.... well it’s the same instruments as last year!!!! Again I don’t consider a new color as innovation. 

So yeah, they won’t have my money, but they won’t have a lot of people’s either, because it’s the worst time in years to be forking out 3 grand on an instrument. 
Again; had they been more reasonably priced, I would have made the effort probably. But I cannot accept the idea of spending 3 grand on a kind of mass-produced instrument that gives me ZERO customisable options. 

For the price of one Stingray, I can get two fully customised to my specs Maruszczyk basses. Not mass produced in Poland. 
Or even, a Valenti bass, with great advice from Nino himself, and options available to choose from. And that leaves me with another grand to go on a nice holiday when it’s doable to do so. 

Yes. I’m frigging annoyed at this policy of ramping up prices like mad. I know they’re not a charity and their aim is to make money. But not to that ridiculous extent.

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7 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I'm wondering if Westside are now doing the distribution....

:ph34r:

 

Do you mean Jonny X’s Westside distribution? Just wondering what I’ve missed?

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1 hour ago, Chiliwailer said:

Do you mean Jonny X’s Westside distribution? Just wondering what I’ve missed?

Mesa used to use west side and had similarly massive mark ups

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19 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Mesa used to use west side and had similarly massive mark ups

Do you think the distributor (S&T, I guess) is behind the huge increase and not EBMM?

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I spoke to S&T and they said that supply would be limited in 2021 so maybe they have hiked the price to stem the demand.

Edited by skb558
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Just now, skb558 said:

I spoke to S&T and they said that supply would be limited in 2021 so maybe hike the price and stem the demand.

I’ll wait. 😏

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3 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

I’ll wait. 😏

Me too...especially having just done my tax return and now owe HMRC, ahem, a ‘few quid’ 😱

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2 minutes ago, skb558 said:

I spoke to S&T and they said that supply would be limited in 2021 so maybe they have hiked the price to stem the demand.

Cheers. Makes business sense, at least at a first glance: big demand coupled with limited supply = price increase. Economics 101. However, this is based on the assumption that there is a big demand and I am not sure that this is realistic (BTW, having unrealistic assumptions is typical for economics, at least for classical economics ;- ). I think the price hike is just way too much and there are just too many great alternatives on the market. EBMM does not have a monopoly. So, apart from the die-hard EBMM fanboys and girls, many others will just walk away with their money and hand it over to someone else. Well, we'll see. 

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Well, thing is... how can they expect to be high demand for those "limited" supplies, especially at these prices? I understand they want to make up for the fact they will sell less, so then need to hike prices. But this is beyond ridiculous here. How can the same model go from £2099 to £2749??? 

And, what next? Things improve after COVID, EBMM can spew more Stingrays out of their production line, so more supply... what will S&T do? Decrease prices? That never happens. You don't want to upset people who paid high price. So you keep the same price, with more supply... but not necessary more demand.

 

Since EBMM's prices in the US have "reasonably" increased (still too much IMO), S&T's greediness will seriously harm EBMM. I can't imagine them having the same demand as usual. Never....

Edited by Ian McFly
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5 minutes ago, Ian McFly said:

Well, thing is... how can they expect to be high demand for those "limited" supplies, especially at these prices? I understand they want to make up for the fact they will sell less, so then need to hike prices. But this is beyond ridiculous here. How can the same model go from £2099 to £2749??? 

And, what next? Things improve after COVID, EBMM can spew more Stingrays out of their production line, so more supply... what will S&T do? Decrease prices? That never happens. You don't want to upset people who paid high price. So you keep the same price, with more supply... but not necessary more demand.

 

Since EBMM's prices in the US have "reasonably" increased (still too much IMO), S&T's greediness will seriously harm EBMM. I can't imagine them having the same demand as usual. Never....

Agree on most points. However, do you think it is S&T's decision or EBMM's?

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4 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

Agree on most points. However, do you think it is S&T's decision or EBMM's?

I guess we will pretty much know when we see if the price increase in other big markets (e.g., Germany and France) will be like the one in the US ($100-200) or like here (£750-1000 up). 

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@Ian McFly you may find this is a combination of increases - without wishing to 'dis' Andertons because they've been very helpful to me in the past, but they do noticeably mark up Musicman basses (say compared with other retailers), a recent example being the champagne sparkle BFR Stingray Special HH - available elsewhere for a good £200 less. But they have provided a much better service than one or two well known names who will remain nameless here. I guess it's a factor of - in normal circumstances - being able to go to a shop and try a multitude of basses ( they had about 20 Stingray Speciaks when I got mine). I suspect they build in their loyalty points scheme to the prices as well. 

I was one of the first 'customers' (as opposed to dealer stock) to order Stingray Specials in 2018 (April) via Andertons - the price of the 4HH Aqua sparkle was £2299 and the correct price of the Cruz teal 5HH was £2499 (I got a reduction but had to wait 7 months for it to arrive). 

Those prices were two years ago. So I would call £3000 a 20% rise (10% per annum) against the 5 string. Nonetheless still very expensive. 

My understanding (from informed sources on TB and EBMM on their forum) is the factory has had to reduce production for Covid reasons. They also sell more guitars than basses these days so make of that as you will in terms of relative production levels. 

I doubt I'll be buying one of these currently - indeed anything bass wise!!! I'm still enjoying playing the ones I already have. I do like the latest colour offerings though - except the prices!! 

Edited by drTStingray

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2 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

@Ian McFly you may find this is a combination of increases - without wishing to 'dis' Andertons because they've been very helpful to me in the past, but they do noticeably mark up Musicman basses (say compared with other retailers), a recent example being the champagne sparkle BFR Stingray Special HH - available elsewhere for a good £200 less. But they have provided a much better service than one or two well known names who will remain nameless here. 

I was one of the first 'customers' (as opposed to dealer stock) to order Stingray Specials in 2018 (April) via Andertons - the price of the 4HH Aqua sparkle was £2299 and the correct price of the Cruz teal 5HH was £2499 (I got a reduction but had to wait 7 months for it to arrive). 

Those prices were two years ago. So I would call £3000 a 20% rise (10% per annum) against the 5 string.

My understanding (from informed sources on TB and EBMM on their forum) is the factory has had to reduce production for Covid reasons. They also sell more guitars than basses these days so make of that as you will in terms of relative production levels. 

I doubt I'll be buying one of these currently - indeed anything bass wise!!! I'm still enjoying playing the ones I already have. I do like the latest colour offerings though. 

In fairness to Andertons, another retailer also quoted me £2,899 for the new 4HH Raspberry Burst, so it is not only Andertons.

I am sure there are Covid related supply issues, however, how come they keep the price increase in the US pretty low ($100-200) and increase it here by £750-1000? 

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5 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

In fairness to Andertons, another retailer also quoted me £2,899 for the new 4HH Raspberry Burst, so it is not only Andertons.

I am sure there are Covid related supply issues, however, how come they keep the price increase in the US pretty low ($100-200) and increase it here by £750-1000? 

So that's £600 uplift in 2 and a 1/2 yrs (my aqua sparkle of Sept 2018 is on a par spec etc)? I really don't know the answer to the question - I do know there was a big hike in the US a year or two back which caused outrage on TB initially - I do know I looked into buying a new car recently - the equivalent of mine, bought just under 2 yrs ago would cost me £41k - mine cost £34k. That's 20% in 18 months or so..... 

Edited by drTStingray

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1 minute ago, drTStingray said:

So that's £600 uplift in 2 and a 1/2 yrs? I really don't know the answer to the question - I do know I looked into buying a new car recently - the equivalent of mine, bought just under 2 yrs ago would cost me £41k - mine cost £34k. That's 20% in 18 months or so..... 

The main issue is that the price increase in the US is small (and nothing usual, typical yearly increase) and huge here. As mentioned, will be interesting to see how the new prices will look like in other markets.

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