envelope filter?

[budget bassist]

I was listening to falling into grace by the red hot chilis (one hot minute), and i really love that funky bass sound, is flea using an envelope filter there? I have a fairly limited knowledge of effects you see. Also what are some decent cheap envelope filters, if that is indeed what i'm after? I did a quick search on GAK and all it brought up was a digitech one for £60. Not a bad price but i'm wondering if it's any good or if you guys could suggest any alternatives. I'd really like to avoid behringer if i can!
cheers

[Hamster]

The EMMA DiscomBOBulator and EHX Q-Tron are very popular.

There are some youtube vid demos of both

[thisnameistaken]

The Q-Tron is Flea's current filter. I rate it, for the money, but I replaced mine with a Meatwad (much more versatile, much more expensive).

I haven't found another filter that sounds that funky for that sort of money.

[Delberthot]

Flea used to use the DOD Envelope Filter. There's a shot of it on his video with River Pheonix.

I had one but couldn't get anything usable out of it

[lemmywinks]

The DODs are good for the money (around £25 second hand). They can be excellent in the highs but very indistinct in the lows.
Basically i liked mine and could get a few cool sounds out of it, but it sounded nothing like Chilis records which was what i bought it for!
Another thing to watch out for if volume drop when the effect is on. This rendered it nearly unusable on my Warwick but was ok on a Musicman and a Squire

I found the two envelope settings on the Boss SYB-3 Synth pedal better than the Dod, much smoother and clearer.

Edited March 8, 2009 by lemmywinks

[Kirky]

I build a BYOC one, which is a clone of the DOD I believe. Sounds great, but needs to be set up carefully for the bass and amp. £44 and a fun project.

[Higgie]

[quote name='Kirky' post='428538' date='Mar 8 2009, 12:49 PM']I build a BYOC one, which is a clone of the DOD I believe. Sounds great, but needs to be set up carefully for the bass and amp. £44 and a fun project.[/quote]

That would be a clone of the DOD 440, which is completely different to the FX25 that others have been talking about.

The song the OP mentioned isn't actually an envelope filter but an auto wah. It's got a constant sweep controlled by an LFO. If you want a pedal that will do this, plus cover all the rest of your filter needs, with a sample and hold filter too, the Subdecay Prometheus will get you there. It's currently the forerunner in the list of which pedals I will buy as a backup to my Original Mutron. Great pedal.

If you want something that's a little cheaper but can get this sound, and a fairly conventional filter sound, the MXR Bass Auto Q is a lot of fun. Bare in mind it will be nowhere near as versatile as the Subdecay pedal, which is what IMO, justifies the price difference. Try and buy used too, you'll save a lot of money

I hope you find some kind of help in the above section of waffle!!

[Born 2B Mild]

I'm loving my Q-Tron. The good thing is they are not rare, so buying used is possible.

[budget bassist]

Cheers for the advice guys The q-tron sounds like it could be a solid choice or the mxr higgie mentioned. And of course i'll probably buy used, they don't call me budget bassist for nothing

[katri]

The Q-tron is really cool, i keep meaning to check one out, maybe even the Nano ones.

[Happy Jack]

I've been using the Micro Q-Tron for a while now. Lovely pedal and all that, but the sound gets very thin all too easily, and you really notice it if you record your rehearsals/gigs.

Someone was telling me that the MXR Bass Auto Q doesn't suffer from this, and remains a much fatter sound.

Can anyone comment on that?

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='439029' date='Mar 19 2009, 11:01 AM']I've been using the Micro Q-Tron for a while now. Lovely pedal and all that, but the sound gets very thin all too easily, and you really notice it if you record your rehearsals/gigs.

Someone was telling me that the MXR Bass Auto Q doesn't suffer from this, and remains a much fatter sound.

Can anyone comment on that?[/quote]

Usually if you're getting a thin sound it's a combination of the filter being open (or too far open) too much of the time, and a high resonance causing a peak at the treble end to be louder than the lower end. A low-pass filter (as the name suggests) always lets the bottom end through, but with high resonance it can sound quiet by comparison to wherever the cut-off frequency happens to be. I suppose with the Micro Q-Tron you've got control over the resonance (Q) but not sensitivity? Unless the drive knob does that full time... I don't know, I haven't used that pedal. I'd stick with lower settings on those two knobs though, and always have it on LP.

The Bass Auto Q always sounded a bit dull to me.

[Currrls]

[quote name='Kirky' post='428538' date='Mar 8 2009, 12:49 PM']I build a BYOC one, which is a clone of the DOD I believe. Sounds great, but needs to be set up carefully for the bass and amp. £44 and a fun project.[/quote]
It says on the website "Compared to other envelope filters, this may be a one-trick-pony, but it does it's one trick well."
what is this one sound???

[ahpook]

my q-tron's up for [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=44348"]sale[/url] if anyone's interested.

damn good pedal, i'm just short of pedalboard space !

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Currrls' post='439731' date='Mar 19 2009, 09:06 PM']It says on the website "Compared to other envelope filters, this may be a one-trick-pony, but it does it's one trick well."
what is this one sound???[/quote]

The 440 circuit is very subtle, it stays deep. Doesn't do extreme funky quacking noises, more of a throb.

[Kirky]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='439900' date='Mar 19 2009, 11:44 PM']The 440 circuit is very subtle, it stays deep. Doesn't do extreme funky quacking noises, more of a throb.[/quote]
I find it can be quite extreme depending on how you set the controls. It can be subtle. It can also be virtually unusable. I like it, but I've not tried any others.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Hey Higgie,

Have you tried a Subdecay Prometheus yet?

If so does it sound anywhere near the Mu-Tron? I have looked at their site and they only have audio samples from a guitar which is no bloody good!

Cheers.

Mark

[quote name='Higgie' post='428552' date='Mar 8 2009, 01:11 PM']That would be a clone of the DOD 440, which is completely different to the FX25 that others have been talking about.

The song the OP mentioned isn't actually an envelope filter but an auto wah. It's got a constant sweep controlled by an LFO. If you want a pedal that will do this, plus cover all the rest of your filter needs, with a sample and hold filter too, the Subdecay Prometheus will get you there. It's currently the forerunner in the list of which pedals I will buy as a backup to my Original Mutron. Great pedal.

If you want something that's a little cheaper but can get this sound, and a fairly conventional filter sound, the MXR Bass Auto Q is a lot of fun. Bare in mind it will be nowhere near as versatile as the Subdecay pedal, which is what IMO, justifies the price difference. Try and buy used too, you'll save a lot of money

I hope you find some kind of help in the above section of waffle!![/quote]

[Higgie]

I've used it yeah. Compared it side by side with my Mutron

It DOES do a great impression of the Mutron. Not exactly spot on, but it's got it's own character that's very pleasant on the ears. It's also smaller, has True Bypass (the bypass on the original Mutron is terrible), has an LED, and then not to mention the step filter mode (which can be tamed into an auto-wah) make it altogether a better option unless you absolutely cannot live without the "Mutron" sound. As I said before, if my Mutron were to break or be stolen (or even if I decide the Mutron takes up too much board space ) it's the Subdecay I would replace it with. That slot used to be open for a Maxon AF-9 (sounds more Mutronish than the Subdecay) but it isn't as versatile so I figure the Subdecay is the best bang for the buck. Not cheap, it's one of those pedals that you'll be glad of spending the money on afterwards

Cheers

Hope that helps!

Edited March 20, 2009 by Higgie

[Gunsfreddy2003]

I had a Maxon AF-9 but I honestly felt that it just sucked all the bottom end out my tone so sold it on very quickly!

I like the EBS Bass IQ but just cannot get that distorted squelch that I am looking for (thinking of Light Years by Jamiroquai) and every time I struggle I just keep thinking of biting the bullet and going for an original Mu-Tron but I would hate to spend that money and find that I still can't get that tone.

I see that the Subdecay is about $225 so not too bad once the exchange rate sorts itself out again - certainly a lot cheaper than the Mu-Tron.

Mark

[quote name='Higgie' post='440257' date='Mar 20 2009, 01:24 PM']I've used it yeah. Compared it side by side with my Mutron

It DOES do a great impression of the Mutron. Not exactly spot on, but it's got it's own character that's very pleasant on the ears. It's also smaller, has True Bypass (the bypass on the original Mutron is terrible), has an LED, and then not to mention the step filter mode (which can be tamed into an auto-wah) make it altogether a better option unless you absolutely cannot live without the "Mutron" sound. As I said before, if my Mutron were to break or be stolen (or even if I decide the Mutron takes up too much board space ) it's the Subdecay I would replace it with. That slot used to be open for a Maxon AF-9 (sounds more Mutronish than the Subdecay) but it isn't as versatile so I figure the Subdecay is the best bang for the buck. Not cheap, it's one of those pedals that you'll be glad of spending the money on afterwards

Cheers

Hope that helps![/quote]

[sshorepunk]

I always figured a distorted squelch was gonna take a couple of pedals?

If any of my filters started doing that, I would be thinking somethings wrong, or batteries are dying, Sir Psycho stylee!

At this point I had to go listen to Light years, not heard it for years, err, light years!

... are you meaning the low notes between the main riff, if you know what I mean?

Tony

[MB1]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='428184' date='Mar 7 2009, 07:40 PM']I was listening to falling into grace by the red hot chilis (one hot minute), and i really love that funky bass sound, is flea using an envelope filter there? I have a fairly limited knowledge of effects you see. Also what are some decent cheap envelope filters, if that is indeed what i'm after? I did a quick search on GAK and all it brought up was a digitech one for £60. Not a bad price but i'm wondering if it's any good or if you guys could suggest any alternatives. I'd really like to avoid behringer if i can!
cheers[/quote]

MB1.
Whos behringer?

[Higgie]

You won't get the "Light Years" sound with a Mutron or any standalone filter pedal. You will need some kind of fuzz (I would recommend the Crowther Prunes and Custard - Really squlechy synthy sound by itself) then run that into a filter, and you'll be somewhere close.

Ps. Were you using the Maxon AF-9 on Band Pass or Hi Pass modes? Always stick to Low Pass with a bass, unless you are using a signal blender like the Barge VFB2/Xotic XBlender, otherwise you will lose low end. I never found the Maxon to suck the lows at all in Low Pass mode.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Yeah I think you are right that it is going to be a couple of pedals needed to nail that sound!

But yes it is the low notes between the main riff on Light Year - just how do you make that sound??!!!

Mark

[quote name='sshorepunk' post='440859' date='Mar 21 2009, 08:43 AM']I always figured a distorted squelch was gonna take a couple of pedals?

If any of my filters started doing that, I would be thinking somethings wrong, or batteries are dying, Sir Psycho stylee!

At this point I had to go listen to Light years, not heard it for years, err, light years!

... are you meaning the low notes between the main riff, if you know what I mean?

Tony[/quote]

[Gunsfreddy2003]

I think that you mentioned the Prunes & Custard pedal to me before - have you got any clips of you using it to get this type of sound?

I did have the AF-9 set on Low Pass but still found that it just didn't give me the sound that I was looking for - I have found the EBS Bass IQ much more funky

Mark

[quote name='Higgie' post='441075' date='Mar 21 2009, 01:54 PM']You won't get the "Light Years" sound with a Mutron or any standalone filter pedal. You will need some kind of fuzz (I would recommend the Crowther Prunes and Custard - Really squlechy synthy sound by itself) then run that into a filter, and you'll be somewhere close.

Ps. Were you using the Maxon AF-9 on Band Pass or Hi Pass modes? Always stick to Low Pass with a bass, unless you are using a signal blender like the Barge VFB2/Xotic XBlender, otherwise you will lose low end. I never found the Maxon to suck the lows at all in Low Pass mode.[/quote]

Edited March 22, 2009 by Gunsfreddy2003

[Higgie]

I apologise, my recording setup is TERRIBLE!!

This is the P+C used just by itself:
[url="http://media.putfile.com/Deeper-Underground---Prunes-and-Custard"]Deeper Underground[/url]

And into the Maxon AF-9:
[url="http://media.putfile.com/Sir-Psycho---PC---Maxon-AF-9"]Sir Psycho Sexy[/url]

Ok so I did these soundclips yonks ago, and they probably aren't as accurate as the sounds I've got now, but they give you a basic idea

I've got a soundclip of using it with the Subdecay Prometheus and Boss OC-2 with a bit of Analog Delay, but I haven't been able to upload it for some reason, so PM your address and I'll send it over.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Higgie