Stingray5 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 ...and so the Jaco debate trundles ever onward. Personally I gave up a long time ago trying to convince others one way or t'other about JP. Either you get it or you don't. (Same can be said for <insert name here>). Now chill out, take five and try this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXz7FUi4-I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXz7FUi4-I[/url] p.s. - +1 to bilbo's comments ++1 to urb's website article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumfrog Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote name='Stingray5' post='408198' date='Feb 13 2009, 03:40 AM']Either you get it or you don't.[/quote] nahh, it's not a case of getting it or not, it's just personal preference. That's the great thing about music, so much of it out there and so many different types Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_in_ya_face Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't get him at all. I hate having his named rammed down your throat from day 1 of learning the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 If you bother to read the opening post properly you'll see that this thread wasn't ever intended to be a 'Jaco debate'. Yes we have had more than enough of those. Thank you those who've chosen to reply. I'm pleasantly surprised by the extent of folk on here who do, like me, enjoy listening to him, whether gently accompanying someone else or more 'in the mix' directing things from the low end. I actually prefer the latter stuff even though I delight in Joni Mitchell. Heavy Weather, 3 kinds of a secret and his self titled album are Jaco heaven for me. Of course there will be a disproportionate number of 'naysayers' who don't post. It's interesting that some folk are apologising for either not having heard his stuff or for not liking it. What is just is so far as I'm concerned. Interesting the comments on 'fret w***ery'. Makes me wonder if you've ever listened to a representative proportion of his stuff (as opposed to the odd Youtube clip) as Jaco and 'fret w***ery' go together like champagne and chips imo. I do know some 'fret w***ers' though. So thanks for the replies folks. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 He's probably one of the few that can generate so much hate or dislike with his music.....now to me, that's got to be a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't deny his skill. He no doubt changed the role of bass for many, showing that it can be a solo instrument. My sticking point is that I hate bass as a solo instrument, so for the way I play, he may just as well been a painter and decorator. To me, it just sounds rubbish. Horrible tone. Like a toy trumpet. Also, I hate dynamics in music. Just keep it all at one volume, otherwise you sound like your either tuning up or f***ing up. Half of Jaco's stuff I can't even hear (thankfully). The only acceptable dynamic is finishing a bit louder than you start. The Ox and McCartney (even though I hate the f***er), have had a bigger influence on me (and I would argue music as a whole) than JP. Without JP we would have no Michael Manring, which would have only been a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) His solo album is amazing and completely seminal, I've spent years trying to cop licks from his tunes on that C.D. Herbie Hancock's playing on that album in particular is without question some of the best keys playing I have ever heard. It's not an easy listen though unless you've got a real affinity for jazz and that style of music. [quote]To me, it just sounds rubbish. Horrible tone. Like a toy trumpet. Also, I hate dynamics in music.[/quote] Fair enough on the tone side of things, it's hit or miss. But you hate DYNAMICS in music? That's nuts... music is by it's very nature dynamic, to not include it in your playing I think would actually require a conscious effort to do so. [quote]Without JP we would have no Michael Manring, which would have only been a good thing.[/quote] Agreed. Manring does absolutely nothing for me Edited February 13, 2009 by liamcapleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote name='liamcapleton' post='408339' date='Feb 13 2009, 10:43 AM']Fair enough on the tone side of things, it's hit or miss. But you hate DYNAMICS in music? That's nuts... music is by it's very nature dynamic, to not include it in your playing I think would actually require a conscious effort to do so.[/quote] As I say, you can get louder at the end, or pick it up a bit for the chorus, but anything more make you sound like a Jazz tosser (that one's for you Rich!). I always try and play at the same volume. Maybe classical music can get away with it, but as you may have guessed, I'm not a classical musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote]but as you may have guessed, I'm not a classical musician.[/quote] I guessed. Neither am I though... I dread to think how much worse of a tosser I might have been if I was a classical player Dynamics are important though, especially for a bass player of all people because it's such a dynamic instrument. Each to their own though, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote name='liamcapleton' post='408368' date='Feb 13 2009, 11:05 AM']Dynamics are important though, especially for a bass player of all people because it's such a dynamic instrument.[/quote] It's important to bass players and a handful of other musicians. Not to normal people though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Pfft. Bass players aren't normal people. The mere fact I'm discussing musical dynamics on an online forum whilst I should be in Uni learning only serves as a testament to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='408372' date='Feb 13 2009, 11:07 AM']It's important to bass players and a handful of other musicians. Not to normal people though.[/quote] I thought Jaco played at the same volume, anyway? Burp Burp, then a bit of mwah. That puts you on a par with him. You've got a lot in common! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I enjoy some of his stuff... the Joni stuff, some of the Weather Report stuff and a few tunes off his solo albums. The man had chops and soul, but I didn't always like the music he applied them to. Some of it was meaningless noodling, some of it was a little too close to "smooth jazz" and some if it just left me utterly unmoved. There's no greater insult in music than that... to get no reaction from a listener. But, there are few other bass players that can make the hairs on my arms stand on end they way they do when I hear Portrait Of Tracy, or the solo from A Remark You Made. Then again, I'm the same with Wooten... technically awesome, love watching all the bass gymnastics and stuff, but he leaves me strangely unmoved... I don't *feel* his playing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I like the original "Jaco Pastorius" solo album, as it really is a landmark recording and one from which we can all learn a lot. (If we open our ears & minds!) But the later more experimental stuff is a move too far for me. I love the bass as a solo instrument & as I've said in the past, the top soloists inspire me to be a better player, as I'm sure many others on here will also find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='fede162162' post='407528' date='Feb 12 2009, 12:48 PM']there are tu races: the wooten fellows and the jaco fellows, I'm definitively among the first group[/quote] And Wooten was into the second group.... So that makes you a descendant of the second group. Yay... Love the Word of Mouth big band. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='Russ' post='409232' date='Feb 14 2009, 07:16 AM']There's no greater insult in music than that... to get no reaction from a listener.[/quote] Jaco can not be accused of that. To this very day on this very Forum... People are still having a reaction.. Good or bad. Still a reaction. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='Russ' post='409232' date='Feb 14 2009, 07:16 AM']There's no greater insult in music than that... to get no reaction from a listener.[/quote] Although this isn't quite true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 True, you could get an entirely -ve reaction and end up looking like BBC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassninja Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='407657' date='Feb 12 2009, 03:13 PM']I really, really like the stuff he did with Joni Mitchell ... The rest of his stuff I can take or leave however.[/quote] +1 I've listened to loads of Jaco for years, and there are bits that I still find amazing ("Dry Cleaner from Des Moines" off Shadows & Light esp.) But this thread has really made me reconsider. I think its that "It ain't braggin' if you can back it up" nonsense coming through his, admittedly pretty groundbreaking, playing. That's the Marmite factor for me, and on the whole, I'd rather not, thank you. I'd imagine that very thing might be the clincher for some folks, though, who find his arrogance inspiring or edgy in some way. But I don't hear him as a 'generous' player. I feel the same way about Frank Zappa, now I come to think of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 To me, his playing is guitar playing, for the most part. Really good guitar playingh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Except it's really not guitar playing. It's bass playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='408372' date='Feb 13 2009, 11:07 AM']It's important to bass players and a handful of other musicians. Not to normal people though.[/quote] "Normal" people tend to like lowest common denominator pop music which has had all the dynamics compressed out of it in order to make it sound good'n'loud on a cheap radio.. (He said generalising wildly!) But otherwise, dynamics is what makes music - frinstance Nirvana's "Teen Spirit" wouldn't be the same if all of them had played at the same volume all the time.. Dynamics are what bring expression to music, the quiet bits emphasise the loud bits and vice versa - it's not just for jazz or classical but for all genres.. I use compression on my bass in order to control attack and max. level, but that doesn't stop some notes being deliberately louder or quieter depending on the mood of what I'm playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 [quote name='tedgilley' post='409833' date='Feb 15 2009, 12:38 AM']To me, his playing is guitar playing, for the most part. Really good guitar playingh.[/quote] I have been told Tesco's do a nice line in replacment nine volt ears, A cracking variety of colours as well. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I've tried, believe me I have, even picked up a load of remastered albums in an HMV sale a couple of years back, but generally I can't make it through an album (and on occasion more than a couple of tracks before giving up and changing it). There are a couple of tracks on Heavy Weather I like otherwise, NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Haven't enjoyed a Jaco or Weather Report album since I was 16 and I was told I needed to like them to play bass. Load of nonsense - both the advice and the music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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