sshorepunk Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I listen to jaco if I feel I need to listen to him, wouldn't be my first i-pod choice in the car. Got a live jam he did on I shot the sheriff, enjoy that, also The Chicken, but I spent a lot of my youf playing in big bands. jaco had the skils and inspires many, thats how it is, but listening to him like you do your everyday tunes, don't think so! T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 For anyone who doesnt like the widdley jaco they should listen to the portrait of jaco album,when he is playing with wayne cochran and little beaver. I wish the man had played more funk he was excellent at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Jaco could do funk and then some. The breakdown in Opus Pocus = funktacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='407337' date='Feb 12 2009, 09:45 AM']Personally, I think that Jaco (I feel the same about Paul Chambers) was at his best when working with strong musical personalities who kept him in check and gave him great material on which to work; Zawinul & Shorter, Mitchell, Gil Goldstein, Bob Mintzer, Pat Metheny etc. When the people around him deferred to Jaco's muse (Birelli Lagrene, Jon Davis, Brian Melvin etc), the product was second and even third rate.[/quote] I'd say you're overstating that a bit. An individual affected with bipolar in a major depressive episode (as he was at that point), who heavily self-medicates with alcohol and cocaine, frequently sleeping on park benches, etc. has plenty of things to blame for mediocre performance before he needs to blame those around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='liamcapleton' post='410110' date='Feb 15 2009, 03:36 PM']Except it's really not guitar playing. It's bass playing.[/quote] Strictly speaking, it's bass guitar playing. [/pedant] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='dlloyd' post='410957' date='Feb 16 2009, 12:25 PM']I'd say you're overstating that a bit. An individual affected with bipolar in a major depressive episode (as he was at that point), who heavily self-medicates with alcohol and cocaine, frequently sleeping on park benches, etc. has plenty of things to blame for mediocre performance before he needs to blame those around him.[/quote] Your point is valid but I was referring to a career overview not to the defeciencies in his playing that arose over the closing years of his life. There are lots of examples of him throughout his career playing without stellar composers/arrangers and he is not nearly as effective as he was with WR, Mitchell, Metheny etc. Examples include the LPs/tracks he did with Michel Colombier, Airto, Al DiMeola, Mike Stern etc. Even that Trio of Doom thing is a bit iffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='410555' date='Feb 15 2009, 10:34 PM']Haven't enjoyed a Jaco or Weather Report album since I was 16 and I was told I needed to like them to play bass. Load of nonsense - both the advice and the music![/quote] The advice is certainly nonsense , the music's a matter of opinion which, in the main, I share with you. I like to watch bits of Jaco on you tube etc but I could only really listen to W R with my notepad out rather than for entertainment. To a point I can enjoy the Shadows and Light stuff . I'm really grateful Jaco raised the profile of bass playing and it's fantastic that he continues to inspire so many. In no way could his technical abilities be questioned. The guy was able to push the boundary of the music he wanted to play in ways most of us could not. If he were doing what he so often does on a guitar though , how many of us would just accuse him of fret w**king. I wonder what he'd have done with Waterfront , had Simple Minds asked him to help out? Would he have had enough humility to realise the bassline was already perfect for the song or would he have felt compelled to do more?? The guy's a legend in many ways , I suppose I'm just not that interested in those ways. His music remains to be enjoyed , to inspire , to critisise , to learn from. There are worse epitaphs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='410984' date='Feb 16 2009, 12:48 PM']Your point is valid but I was referring to a career overview not to the defeciencies in his playing that arose over the closing years of his life. There are lots of examples of him throughout his career playing without stellar composers/arrangers and he is not nearly as effective as he was with WR, Mitchell, Metheny etc. Examples include the LPs/tracks he did with Michel Colombier, Airto, Al DiMeola, Mike Stern etc. Even that Trio of Doom thing is a bit iffy.[/quote] His career as a whole was iffy, punctuated by short periods of brilliance. That's the nature of the illness he had. The illness didn't start in the 1980s, he would have had it right from the outset, benefiting creatively from his manic/hypomanic episodes... and he was aware of it, refusing treatment for fear of losing the 'highs'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote]refusing treatment for fear of losing the 'highs'.[/quote] He's wasn't alone with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote]I wonder what he'd have done with Waterfront , had Simple Minds asked him to help out? Would he have had enough humility to realise the bassline was already perfect for the song or would he have felt compelled to do more??[/quote] That's a good point but do you ever think that Jaco could have been put in that position? That wasn't Jaco's selling point, if you wanted someone like that then hiring Jaco over someone like Chuck Rainey or a decent session musician would have been insane... sort of like asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='dlloyd' post='411056' date='Feb 16 2009, 01:40 PM']His career as a whole was iffy, punctuated by short periods of brilliance. That's the nature of the illness he had. The illness didn't start in the 1980s, he would have had it right from the outset, benefiting creatively from his manic/hypomanic episodes... and he was aware of it, refusing treatment for fear of losing the 'highs'.[/quote] Depends on several things. His illness may have lain dormant until he started drinking (Zawinul talks about this in his biography 'In A Silent Way' - [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Way-Portrait-Joe-Zawinul/dp/1860743269/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234799439&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Way-Portrai...9439&sr=1-1[/url] ) and doing drugs with the likes of Mike Stern. Personally I think of his work as that of a highly capable and vibrant voice but not necessarily one who had a lot to say. I think his 1976 - 1980 work was marvellous but, after he left WR with whom he had started to become unreliable, he was in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='liamcapleton' post='411208' date='Feb 16 2009, 03:31 PM']That's a good point but do you ever think that Jaco could have been put in that position? That wasn't Jaco's selling point, if you wanted someone like that then hiring Jaco over someone like Chuck Rainey or a decent session musician would have been insane... sort of like asking for trouble.[/quote] Your point's a fair one too. I suppose what I was really saying is that someimes I think Jaco played what he could play rather than what he should play. I've read that he described himself as a very musical player - a lot of what I've heard goes more towards the technical. Maybe Jaco wouldn't play Waterfront - but would that be because he considered it beneath him? The challenge to me is about being part of something greater - not having the greatest part. I'm not really a fan of the virtuoso I suppose. I can listen with interest and take enjoyment from anothers ability or from what I may learn. I'm not so sure I feel 'entertained'. Sadly I'm not aware of a lot of Jaco's catalog , as many of you are. I'm only really able to give my thoughts on the Jaco I've heard which , other than parts of Shadows and Light has left me with an impression of 'player before band' - not my thing I'm afraid , even regarding such fine playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='dlloyd' post='410957' date='Feb 16 2009, 12:25 PM']who heavily self-medicates with alcohol and cocaine[/quote] I hate this term. It suggests that there's some science behind it: "I will deal with my bi-polar/depression etc with a mixture of 2 parts alcohol and 3 parts cocaine" Whereas the reality is: "f***, I've got a bit of money. Time to do a load of sniff and role around on the floor eating mars bars". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='411235' date='Feb 16 2009, 03:54 PM']Depends on several things. His illness may have lain dormant until he started drinking (Zawinul talks about this in his biography 'In A Silent Way' - [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Way-Portrait-Joe-Zawinul/dp/1860743269/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234799439&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Way-Portrai...9439&sr=1-1[/url] ) and doing drugs with the likes of Mike Stern.[/quote] No offence to Zawinul, but Jaco was showing evidence of bipolar long before that. His lifestyle most likely exacerbated matters, making his mood swings more extreme. Instead of hypomania, he was going full blown manic... but 'normal' people don't introduce themselves as 'the world's greatest bass player'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 NO, I definitely do not enjoy listening to Jaco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='411275' date='Feb 16 2009, 04:25 PM']I hate this term. It suggests that there's some science behind it[/quote] It's a term that's used in the scientific literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 As others have mentioned, he's a bit of a curate's egg for me, but when he's good, he's really f**kin' good IMO. So I guess that's another qualified yes. I have to confess Heavy Weather leaves me cold though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesparky Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'm going to stick my neck out and say that i've made a point of not reading any of the above posts, comments or discussions so i could leave my own opinion without being influenced by anything anyone else has had to say. Personally, yes, i do love listening to Jaco, his first solo album is one of my favourite all time CD's. When i first starting playing i listened to it relentlessly and played a couple of his / weather report tracks in bands and loved it. Some of his stuff he's played on is too "out there" for me, i just don't get it, but his playing has always remained an influence on me. I've worn out CD's listening to Heavy weather, word of mouth, birthday concert the famous joni mitchell live concert and Jaco Pastorius the album. The highlight is the chorus riff on "come on, come over", awesome - that's exactly how i want to play, funky, fun and to the point. I use that riff as a warm up everytime i practice. The book by bill milkowski is a great read too, very well written and a good insight into his life. Sorry if i'm repeating what anyone else has said.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='bluesparky' post='411553' date='Feb 16 2009, 10:34 PM']I'm going to stick my neck out and say that i've made a point of not reading any of the above posts, comments or discussions so i could leave my own opinion without being influenced by anything anyone else has had to say. Personally, yes, i do love listening to Jaco, his first solo album is one of my favourite all time CD's. When i first starting playing i listened to it relentlessly and played a couple of his / weather report tracks in bands and loved it. Some of his stuff he's played on is too "out there" for me, i just don't get it, but his playing has always remained an influence on me. I've worn out CD's listening to Heavy weather, word of mouth, birthday concert the famous joni mitchell live concert and Jaco Pastorius the album. The highlight is the chorus riff on "come on, come over", awesome - that's exactly how i want to play, funky, fun and to the point. I use that riff as a warm up everytime i practice. The book by bill milkowski is a great read too, very well written and a good insight into his life. Sorry if i'm repeating what anyone else has said..[/quote] Nice post I agree with everything. I think people generally get too caught up in how technical Jaco was, but I think that's really missing the point of him altogether. From what I can personally gather from his playing an interviews is that (for the most) he maintained a strong melodic approach to bass playing and music, intertwining this style with an often fast paced jazz playing (the term 'fusion' often gets tossed around at this juncture but I kind of resent it). I guess that could be confused with technicality but at the end of the day, that's just Jaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 To answer the OP's question. I [i]sometimes[/i] enjoy listening to [i]some[/i] of his work... but not very often. Some of that is to do with the fact the music is often unbearably cheesy. Some because I've sickened myself of it (as lovely as I thought Portrait of Tracy was when I first heard it, I really don't want to hear it ever again). I still like to hear Hejira now and then, and a couple of tracks off Weather Report's Night Passage album make me smile... Rocking in Rhythm is like a super-demented version of the Star Wars Cantina band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='GreeneKing' post='411130' date='Feb 16 2009, 02:33 PM']He's wasn't alone with that [/quote] Not even vaguely alone! Personally I think Jaco was really at his best when just grooving......never heard another player who can groove like him. Edited February 17, 2009 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy_Marsh Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 i enjoy listening to him now and again especially teen town but most of the time id prefer to be listening to something else, namely all shall perish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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