Riot_Basscabs Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hi there everybody the names Craig and im a regular guest reader on Basschat.I just thought i would get some advice and feedback on a brand new super lightweight basscab i have designed and am about to put into production in the next few weeks.I thought this would be a great place for some last minute ideas for slight tweaks and changes in design. The Basscab will be 2x12(Eminence or similar speakers), Active, between 400 and 450w...I always wanted a cab i could just plug in and play.No head unit just raw speaker power and pure tone from the bass alone.Whats the point in owning a classic 70s Jazz bass if you overcolour the tone with and crazy amount of tweakable knobs! Thats just me,i dont like to much fuss,i just plug and play! You may have noticed a lack of a tweeter??? Well the truth is i hate them and as bassist i really dont think we need em? In fact and speakers bellow 10inch seem alien to me.I believe 2x12 pure bass tone is the best you can have(But the speakers have to be sh*t hot to pull it off).I've tested a few combination and this is my pure gut feeling. The Cab will be made from a very high grade of ply wood that has a real nice grain in it.This is important because i want to have a wood stained wax finish.The look of these cabs will be very important and also very different from what you are used to. The front grill is the real baby of this project.Its being custom lazercut at the moment it is one piece 1mm steel.This will include a cut letter logo(R.I.O.T) and the grill will be made up of either tons of tiny cut stars or groups of vertical cut lines( Hard to explain but i will put up photos soon) but it should look very special.The finish will be scotchbrite to give it a shiny but worn look then it will be sealed to prevent rust.This should go really well with the stained waxed grainy ply body.Giving it a kinda retro look but with the beauty of a custom built bass guitar...!(I hope!!!!) The power unit will be mounted on the topside of the cab for easy access.(Im still unsure which one to go with at the moment(Any ideas?) A friend made me one for the tests but ints not good enough for the final design. Phew!!!! Thanks for staying with me...! I know this all sounds a bit muddeled at the mo,All im saying really is im a new cab builder who plans to make a unique looking cab/combo/powery thingy thats not gonna break the bank too much.Im an engineer so all i can say is that the finish will be top notch or i wont bother selling it. Of course it will have corner protectors,nice handles and smell real nice to... P.S...My Cab will be alot better than my spelling!....Thanks folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Sounds great...... !!! Could well be interested in one of these...... Been thinking along these lines for a while, would be good for adding power to a combo that runs out of steam at larger gigs.... How do you plan to cater for the different outputs from basses ? Clearly a Vintage P will have a much lower output than say a Status Bass with 18v Active circuit ? Connections needs to be well thought out too...... have you thought about a DI facility ? ATB Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I've got to admit, im skeptical! But i'd love to be proven wrong...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 It's a good idea, hope you can pull it off and I'm interested to see the end result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot_Basscabs Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Here is a quick sketch of the Cab...Really hope you all like it! Already some great suggestions! As for different outputs the cab itself will have a volume knob for the speakers so for low output basses just crank it up! To be honest im not a real tech head i just try things out .I have a good ear for tones and some great techy friends who let me know when im trying to pull off the impossible.But thanks for the posts fellas,keep it up! I thought i would knock up a rough sketch of one of my designs.This has the custom metal grill.the cut out letter logo will have a cool electric blue behind it for no reason other than it looks great. The grills over the speaks will be super clean cut(Not rough like the drawing!) And the third grill goes over the air pocket.The box will be stained blue then waxed with chrome fittings.Feedback is fantastic! [attachment=19405:RIOT_BASSCAB.gif] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) While I wish you well in your endeavour, is it OK if I play Devil's Advocate? Here are some questions I might ask. * How much is it going to cost? * Will you sell it retail or mail order? Where could I audition it before I bought it? * What is your guarantee period and returns policy? * How is this different from a 450w combo with no tone controls? * What is the level of demand for 'amps' with no tone controls? * Why not have two inputs, with one padded for active basses? * Tone controls are not just there to colour the tone of a particular bass. Among other things, they enable you to compensate for room frequencies or shape tones for particular styles of music. How would this be catered for? External EQ pedal? * What type of joint do you propose for the construction? Finger, dovetail? * Some mfrs prefer MDF over ply for baffles. What's your view? * Have you tried waxing ply? Would this be sprayed on and buffed or hand applied? * What speakers are you going to put in it? Are they going to be neos? Will they be mounted from the front of the baffleboard? * Is the cab going to be ported? Have you run a Thiele Small assessment of the cab dimensions, porting etc vs intended output, speaker type etc? * Will the amplification section be physically separated from the interior of the cab? * Will the amp section be fan-cooled? Where will the cooling port be? * What kind of amplifier are you going to install? Will it be an original build or an existing model? * Will the amplifier be voiced just for bass or for general purpose amplification? * Will the amp section have an effects send / return with separate in / out gains? * Where will the amp power cord sit - will it be kettle-lead into the top of the amp control panel? If so, will that meet British Standard? And how can you stack anything on top - e.g rack? * What is the one USP that will make someone buy this over a combo from an existing, well known Mfr? Edited January 30, 2009 by skankdelvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Won't having half the port obscured by metal affect its efficiency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 So, basically: 1) It's a combo 2) It's going to have minimal control over the tone 3) You don't seem to know much about cab construction as you've mentioned nothing about the internals such as bracing or even if you're going to use wadding/other dampening material, let alone the thickness of the ply (relevent to the amount of bracing). 4) It's all very much an idea and you haven't even made a prototype yet you're pitching it to us. 5) It's not going to be "lightweight" with a powersection it in thats going to power the "400 or 450w output" from 2x12's, not even neo ones at that. To sum up, you're pitching an idea to us, without even the maths to back it up, which offers nothing but your personal preferences in relation to other commerially available cabs. Right. I'd suggest to read this thread by Alex Claber and the cabinets he's now putting into production: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13344"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13344[/url] The man really knows his stuff and you'll learn a lot, bass cabs are an artform AND a science, not either or. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I don't think the guy is "pitching" anything just now..... he's after some feedback on an initial design concept, currently he's had some helpful suggestions to develop his idea.... along with a few smart arse comments. Seems to me like Mr Riot hasn't fully thought everything through but is using the UK's largest Bass community to conclude the product research. Maybe his cab won't hit the spot commercially (I hope it does) but shouldn't we offer encouragement for him to at least get to the production stage ? I for one would love to hear a proto-type Also I believe Bergantino IP cabs are raved over !!! ATB Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot_Basscabs Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Wow thanks thats some hardcore questions. 1) I have made a prototype( I said so in my original post) 2) Nope i dont know alot about tone construction but the box i've built sounds amazing and is based on other cabs i've seen. 3) As for speakers i said in my post im still unsure as to exactly the right one but Neo's are def an option.As i said before i have some great techy friends to help me with tech stuff. 4) If your after all the bells and whisles of todays modern amps then this is not for you.Its plug and play as i said. 5)Will the grills effect the sound? Maybe a tiny bit but lets face it...It looks cool! 6) It will be very light.Its 10mm ply and the speakers are gonna be the lightest and most powerfull i can find. 7) Ive read Alex's thread...The guys amazing! and yes i've already took a few tips. 8) Nope im not putting in two imputs for active and passive.Its plug and play.Ive tested a 4 string jazz,An active overwater and an 8 string tapper and they all sound good through the ruff prototype. 9)Come on guys lets have some fun with this.Forget all the techs for a minute and go with pure feeling! I know this will work but dont take my word for it.Just wait for the clips. 10)If it sounds sh*t noones gonna buy it! If you try it and it sounds sh*t your not gonna buy it,If i build iut and it sound sh*t im not gonna sell it!!!! Lets all relax and see what happens! Cheers again guys for all the ideas.I understand i will get some negatives but its all good.Tone over Tech! lol Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot_Basscabs Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Oh i will try and answer some more of the techy questions soon.I have def overlookeed a couple of things and i still need to run a few things with my tech friends but this cab WILL be built so lets all gather together in harmony and enjoy!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Welcome aboard, Mr. Riot! You've found a rich seam of enthusuiastic, knowledgeable folks on here who will offer advice, question your every move, provide encouragement and scorn you at every turn. We're a mixed bunch...! Good luck with the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizbat Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Might I suggest you get the prototype to some of the 'bassbash' gatherings this year and let people try it for themselves. I might be interested in a ten inch speaker option if you decide to make one, I like tens.... I have quite a few of them. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='Marcus' post='395134' date='Jan 30 2009, 06:15 AM']I for one would love to hear a proto-type[/quote] +1. I know we have a couple of other cabinet builders on the forum, but it doesn't hurt to have more creative people with new ideas on how to amplify our instrument. I like the concept of the 'plug and play' idea. As we all know, some EQ sections out there colour the sound vastly, even when left flat. Of course, this will suit some basses more than others! Will be watching this thread closely over the coming weeks - best of luck to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 ...and another thing - it's nice to see that - practicalities aside - your cabs aren't going to be anonymous black boxes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hmmm... seems to me you need to put these buns back in the oven for a while... although I could be wrong, it's happened before... I think it was a Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='Riot_Basscabs' post='395140' date='Jan 30 2009, 07:37 AM']Wow thanks thats some hardcore questions. 1) I have made a prototype( I said so in my original post) 2) Nope i dont know alot about tone construction but the box i've built sounds amazing and is based on other cabs i've seen. 3) As for speakers i said in my post im still unsure as to exactly the right one but Neo's are def an option.As i said before i have some great techy friends to help me with tech stuff. 4) If your after all the bells and whisles of todays modern amps then this is not for you.Its plug and play as i said. 5)Will the grills effect the sound? Maybe a tiny bit but lets face it...It looks cool! 6) It will be very light.Its 10mm ply and the speakers are gonna be the lightest and most powerfull i can find. 7) Ive read Alex's thread...The guys amazing! and yes i've already took a few tips. 8) Nope im not putting in two imputs for active and passive.Its plug and play.Ive tested a 4 string jazz,An active overwater and an 8 string tapper and they all sound good through the ruff prototype. 9)Come on guys lets have some fun with this.Forget all the techs for a minute and go with pure feeling! I know this will work but dont take my word for it.Just wait for the clips. 10)If it sounds sh*t noones gonna buy it! If you try it and it sounds sh*t your not gonna buy it,If i build iut and it sound sh*t im not gonna sell it!!!! Lets all relax and see what happens! Cheers again guys for all the ideas.I understand i will get some negatives but its all good.Tone over Tech! lol Cheers[/quote] This is exactly the type of thing I love! I'm a plug and play kinda guy and I hate fiddling with eq's. I also love the mentality behind the construction. Maths, technical drawings, science - its all boring! I love the concept of just making something and seeing what happens. If it sounds good, I don't care if it was a fluke! It's how I want to buld myself a bass one day. I think there's room for the scientific approach (a la Mr Claber) AND the eccentric approach in this world. We need more of this kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I like the idea of an active 2X12, but as several peops have asked - WHAT'S THE PROJECTED PRICE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Well it does look very cool! At some point in the future I'd like to get some active designs together with DSP a la IP series but the current price/performance balance on the modules just isn't good enough IMO compared to what you get with the latest micro heads. A biamped DSP'd version of the Big One could outperform any of the IP cabs and would even come close to those crazy Forge cabs at a fraction of the weight. Expensive though, and a lot of R&D required to optimise something that complicated. There's also a load more regulations to comply with once mains power is involved. I like that you're looking at being able to plug a bass straight in without an external preamp - how are you buffering the input and then getting enough gain to drive the power stage? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ditch the front grille - 1. It will only cause whooshing noises from the air movement across it. 2. It adds to the weight. 3. In time it will rattle unless you add extra complexity to the mountings. Do the Thiele-Small calculations. Sticks neck out: - The heart of a good amp is an over-rated, but controlled power supply. Balcro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Balcro' post='395318' date='Jan 30 2009, 12:21 PM']Sticks neck out: - The heart of a good amp is an over-rated, but controlled power supply.[/quote] Or at least sufficient amp headroom for your needs that the power supply is effectively over-rated. I have a strong suspicion that our 240V mains makes it far easier to make a high power amp than the US's wimpy 110V supply. On talkbass they spend their time wittering about the benefits of 'lead sleds' yet for the life of me I cannot imagine any amp being more potent at delivering huge lows than my lightweight QSC PLX. Alex Edited January 30, 2009 by alexclaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubs Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sounds good what you’re doing. Similar to the Bergantino IP cabs? Not so sure on your grill design though - For a fickle market the "image" is so important. I’d love to hear a prototype. Good luck with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='395329' date='Jan 30 2009, 12:28 PM']Or at least sufficient amp headroom for your needs that the power supply is effectively over-rated. Alex.[/quote] Exactly. Balcro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Looks good. I am a fan of simple 'all in one' solutions so will be interesting to check these out. Feel free to send me a prototype for a review when you have one available! ped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 It does look & sound like a good idea. The idea for the grill is a good one but you may want to look at a different material that wont affect the sound (reminds me of a new version of the early 20th century speaker designs where they done this with wood). Good luck with it, I'm sure you'll get lots of (mainly good) advice on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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