When do you consider yourself a musician.

[Kevin Dean]

I certainly don't , I hardly understand any theory , I try to make noises I like , artist maybe & I get paid for it most of the time .

[gapiro]

[quote name='Shaggy' timestamp='1471764418' post='3115571']
Lol - he still isn't!

Singer / rhythm guitarist was though; a guy called Boo Hewerdine
[/quote]
Who is currently still in cambridge and still very much recording at a friends studio.

[Lord Sausage]

At college a lecturer told me that when he was asked what he did for a living he replied "I'm a piano player". People would then ask him what tunes he knew and could he play this or that.
After a while he got fed up of this, so when people asked him he started saying "I'm a musician". He said people then would say "really!? What drugs do you take".

[Lord Sausage]

I'd say to be a musician you need to be able to understand most of the disciplines. Playing, reading, composing and understanding theory and other instruments. You wouldn't say you were an electrician just because you can change a plug!

[stingrayPete1977]

As an electrician and a musician (still open for debate) I'd say the difference there is that my qualifications as an electrician are quantifiable where art isn't, does a grade 8 on violin make you any more enjoyable to listen to if the person listening hates the sound of a violin?

Edited August 25, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[Dood]

I think when I go for car insurance next time and they ask what I do for a living, I'm just gonna link 'em to this thread he he he he!!!

[Heathy]

I started playing bass in the 1980s to get in a band and be part of a gang, to get girls, and because I wanted to be Steve Harris.

Although those who book my band may perceive me to be a musician, I know in my heart that I am really a pretend pop star (and proud of it).

[RhysP]

[quote name='Shaggy' timestamp='1471764418' post='3115571']
Lol - he still isn't!

Singer / rhythm guitarist was though; a guy called Boo Hewerdine
[/quote]

You were in a band with Boo? Was it The Great Divide by any chance?

Boo's a great guy & one of the best songwriters this country has ever produced IMO. Great voice too.

Here's a picture of me & Boo in Scotland last year:

[url="http://s86.photobucket.com/user/RhysP/media/IMG_0131_zpsv5kt6vks.jpg.html"][/url]

Edited August 25, 2016 by RhysP

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472114106' post='3118557']
As an electrician and a musician (still open for debate) I'd say the difference there is that my qualifications as an electrician are quantifiable where art isn't, does a grade 8 on violin make you any more enjoyable to listen to if the person listening hates the sound of a violin?
[/quote]
As a qualified musician(are my many music qualifications unquantifiable) and someone who can change a plug. I'd say whether someone enjoys your violin playing or not has no bearing on whether you are a musician or not.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1472155175' post='3119011']

As a qualified musician(are my many music qualifications unquantifiable) and someone who can change a plug. I'd say whether someone enjoys your violin playing or not has no bearing on whether you are a musician or not.
[/quote]

You are missing my point, you can be a musician either by qualifications or as a recognised performer of music, there are many unqualified musicians who I think most of us would agree are still musicians, an electrician without qualifications is not an electrician even if they are good at it, at best they would be described as 'handy' or something.


If you employed an electrician with certain grades and extra certificates for extra associated skills you should get what you pay for, jib rates even try and pin that down whereas a musician is an artist imo, my neighbour loves opera and classical music, I wouldn't enjoy his music collection and he wouldn't enjoy mine, the level of qualifications gained or albums sold have no bearing on the final unquantifiable product do they?

Edited August 25, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[ambient]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1472118564' post='3118624']
I think when I go for car insurance next time and they ask what I do for a living, I'm just gonna link 'em to this thread he he he he!!!
[/quote]

You don't mention musician do you ?

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472156900' post='3119033']
You are missing my point, you can be a musician either by qualifications or as a recognised performer of music, there are many unqualified musicians who I think most of us would agree are still musicians, an electrician without qualifications is not an electrician even if they are good at it, at best they would be described as 'handy' or something.


If you employed an electrician with certain grades and extra certificates for extra associated skills you should get what you pay for, jib rates even try and pin that down whereas a musician is an artist imo, my neighbour loves opera and classical music, I wouldn't enjoy his music collection and he wouldn't enjoy mine, the level of qualifications gained or albums sold have no bearing on the final unquantifiable product do they?
[/quote]
Unless i'm not understanding you you are talking about performance. You can get work as a musician that isn't just performance. Arranging, composing, teaching, conductors, MD's, choir leaders etc. But performance wise, in terms of clasical and opera (obviously talent is unquantifiable) but the better trained (qualified musicians) tend to get more of the work. I have two mates who are drummers. One who is self taught and a great drummer, one who went through The Royal Northern and has loads of qualifications. Guess which one tours the world with the BBC Orchestra, Halle Orchestra, does musical theatre work, teaches in conservatoires and schools etc etc etc and guess which one plays in pub bands and soul bands!

Edited August 25, 2016 by Lord Sausage

[stingrayPete1977]

To me even just recording your own album in the basement is performing, once it's being done to entertain someone else be it live or recorded it's a performance and has artistic merit, the worst dross you have ever heard might be a number 1 hit, the fantastic album might never get burnt to a cd. Tricky aint it?

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472158334' post='3119048']
To me even just recording your own album in the basement is performing, once it's being done to entertain someone else be it live or recorded it's a performance and has artistic merit, the worst dross you have ever heard might be a number 1 hit, the fantastic album might never get burnt to a cd. Tricky aint it?
[/quote]
may i just say i don't think being a trained musician makes you a better (artistically) performer, writer etc than someone who isn't.

[4stringslow]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472158334' post='3119048']
To me even just recording your own album in the basement is performing, once it's being done to entertain someone else be it live or recorded it's a performance and has artistic merit, the worst dross you have ever heard might be a number 1 hit, the fantastic album might never get burnt to a cd. Tricky aint it?
[/quote]

Yes, it is tricky, but that's because 'musician' encompasses such a wide range of activities, skills, abilities and a correspondingly wide range of opinions.

I think I can reasonably claim to be a musician because I can play a few instruments - some adequately, some poorly - have written a few songs and can record, mix and create an album of original songs. But I'm under no illusion that I'm good enough to do these things for a living. I can't read music (well, only painfully slowly) and my understanding of theory is tenuous at best so I'd be laughed out of any 'serious musicians' club. So what does that make me? An average musician? A poor musician? A better musician than the vast majority of people who can't play any instrument? Does it really matter? I am what I am and I play what I play - but the point is I make music and I don't know what the term is for such a person other than 'musician'.

Edited August 25, 2016 by 4stringslow

[blue]

I guess after reading all the thoughts and comments here, I am comfortable with the label" Rock Musician ".

Blue

[Dave Vader]

On the electrician/musician analogy -
You would hire an electrician to do a certain job, and he/she would do what you asked of him/her (well not round here he/she wouldn't, but that's by the by)

The equivalent 'musician' would be a dep, or a classical muso - who will play the pieces you ask him/her to

That's the only real case where this analogy works.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1472158978' post='3119054']

may i just say i don't think being a trained musician makes you a better (artistically) performer, writer etc than someone who isn't.
[/quote]
You may

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472213100' post='3119494']
You may
[/quote]
Thank you

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1472206443' post='3119403']
On the electrician/musician analogy -
You would hire an electrician to do a certain job, and he/she would do what you asked of him/her (well not round here he/she wouldn't, but that's by the by)

The equivalent 'musician' would be a dep, or a classical muso - who will play the pieces you ask him/her to

That's the only real case where this analogy works.
[/quote]
Or a school/college/uni as a teacher. Or a theatre company may hire you as an MD. Or film/Tv company as a composer. Or a church as a choir leader. Or another musician who needs you to arrange/write parts. Or an orchestra as a conductor.

[Dood]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1472157440' post='3119036']
You don't mention musician do you ?
[/quote]

It's ok, I'm not a musician. Well, I'm not sure now that I've read this thread. lol

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1472159289' post='3119057']
Yes, it is tricky, but that's because 'musician' encompasses such a wide range of activities, skills, abilities and a correspondingly wide range of opinions.

I think I can reasonably claim to be a musician because I can play a few instruments - some adequately, some poorly - have written a few songs and can record, mix and create an album of original songs. But I'm under no illusion that I'm good enough to do these things for a living. I can't read music (well, only painfully slowly) and my understanding of theory is tenuous at best so I'd be laughed out of any 'serious musicians' club. So what does that make me? An average musician? A poor musician? A better musician than the vast majority of people who can't play any instrument? Does it really matter? I am what I am and I play what I play - but the point is I make music and I don't know what the term is for such a person other than 'musician'.
[/quote]
Despite what I've said I totally agree with this. I guess it depends on your personal definiton of 'musician'.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1472221176' post='3119588']
Or a school/college/uni as a teacher. Or a theatre company may hire you as an MD. Or film/Tv company as a composer. Or a church as a choir leader. Or another musician who needs you to arrange/write parts. Or an orchestra as a conductor.
[/quote]

Yep

[tauzero]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1471810717' post='3116105']
To cook and to shave are verbs, musician/music isn't.
[/quote]

There is no noun that cannot be verbed.

[tauzero]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1471945098' post='3117106']
Being a professional musician is not the same as having a professional approach (whatever that might mean) to your music making.
[/quote]

I see "professional approach" as meaning that you adopt the same approach to playing music as you do to whatever it is that you do for a living, because you'd still like to be doing it tomorrow - ie. do it well and don't piss people off. Well, at least not the people that pay you.