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Kex

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by adverts for fake Fenders

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I am not necessarily talking about this website but I have seen on various forums adverts for (usually) DIY or cheap looky-likey basses that someone has applied a Fender transfer to the headstock. I find it annoying, it devalues the brand and would have thought it was at best legally dubious.

OK so the seller may be 'honest' to admit whats been done, but who is to say what the next owner will do. I actually have a friend who bought a Jazz bass with what is quite a well applied Fender logo, I knew the second i played it that it was not right, but he has had it for a few years and i did not have the heart to tell him.

I know Alembic will not even post a replacement logo even if you have bought a bass direct from them (and they record every sale etc) you have to return the instrument to them to have it replaced - a real pain in the bum BUT I can see why they do it.

Yet I often see Fender transfers for sale, even on music supplies web sites, really do not understand why Fender allow it.

Rant over

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Doesn't bother me particularly...provided sellers are clear and not claiming otherwise ( or being vague to the point of deception). It doesn't take vast knowledge to spot most fakes, and there is always common sense to fall back on. Personally, I've played plenty of dodgy Fenders and great (really fantastic) copies so have learned not jump to conclusions. I also have friends with expensive vintage Fenders that really could do with a decent bit of tic and set up, but they probably won't sort out the nuts or scratchy pots...because its vintage..innit....

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This always is a cause for amazement to me. I've seen threads where a guy worked hard and skillfully built a bass from scratch. Then he "completed" it with a Fender logo.... what's that about?

As asked him; "would you build a custom designed car and put a Ford logo on the front?"

FWIW Warwick won't sell you a replacement neck unless you send the old one back. Plus the headstock would be a bit harder to fake.

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The main thing that devalues the historic brands like Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker is their own inability to apply meaningful consistent quality control to their products IMHO. Unfortunately lots of people hold the view that certain brands are "legit" and you are not a proper musician if you don't play a "legit" instrument - always cracks me up that Slash who has probably done more for Gibson sales than any other individual in the last 25 years played a fake Les Paul in the heyday of GnR.

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It doesn't bother me. You'd be totally crazy if (for example) you bought an expensive vintage Fender without checking the serial number, the neck stamp date, the pot numbers and all the other usual indicators of authenticity before buying it. I'd also want to know a bit about the provenance, the seller, the reason for selling and a number of other factors before parting with my hard-earned wedge.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1464261505' post='3057970']
...would you build a custom designed car and put a Ford logo on the front?
[/quote]

No, I'd build a custom car and put an Aston Martin logo on the front. :P

Frankly there are more important things to worry about. Like... which bass should I use for metal?

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1464262194' post='3057981']
The main thing that devalues the historic brands like Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker is their own inability to apply meaningful consistent quality control to their products IMHO.
[/quote]

Absolutely.

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[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1464262194' post='3057981']
The main thing that devalues the historic brands like Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker is their own inability to apply meaningful consistent quality control to their products IMHO.
[/quote]

Fender also didn't bother to protect their copyrights, hence all the Jap (and other) Fender copies and why Fender started Squier to compete in the same market. Rick Hall gets a lot of stick on here for his activities, but he's doing what he thinks is right, i.e. protecting his brand, his copyrights and his trademarks.

Edited by discreet

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I don't have a problem with an Encore that someone has stuck one on but there was a company making replicas as close as possible to a real one including the decal running it as a business, that's just a plain copyright breach surely?

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It is one of the two things that always rankle when I look at Limelight basses (alongside the relicing - not my thing) where they have a Fender rather than Limelight logo. Having a Fender sticker on the headstock would personally dissuade me rather than attract me. I'd rather have a nicely designed manufacturer logo and let the bass, it's sound and its build quality speak for itself.

Edited by TrevorR

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[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1464263115' post='3057990']
It is one of the two things that always rankle when I look at Limelight basses. Having a Fender sticker on the headstock would personally dissuade me rather than attract me. I'd rather have a nicely designed manufacturer logo and let the bass, it's sound and its build quality speak for itself.
[/quote]

Limelight now produce basses with their own logo applied.

[url="http://classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/portfolio/limelight0017663pbass/"]http://classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/portfolio/limelight0017663pbass/[/url]

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464262258' post='3057983']
It doesn't bother me. You'd be totally crazy if (for example) you bought an expensive vintage Fender without checking the serial number, the neck stamp date, the pot numbers and all the other usual indicators of authenticity before buying it. I'd also want to know a bit about the provenance, the seller, the reason for selling and a number of other factors before parting with my hard-earned wedge.


No, I'd build a custom car and put an Aston Martin logo on the front. :P

Frankly there are more important things to worry about. Like... which bass should I use for metal?
[/quote]
Have you ever been on either end of a sale where the bass has been taken apart to proved authenticity?
I did sell one to someone who disappeared out of the room with the bass for a while, I guess that's what he was doing. I don't know if I'd have the courage to arrive at a seller's home and start taking it apart.

As for the false logo - that's my point. If you're going to fake something, fake something worth faking. The only attraction to faking a Fender is they're SO easy to fake giving you a half-decently convincing end result.

I guess Fender sell enough not to be worried about it, otherwise they'd make it harder to fake. ("Blow the sellers of used instruments, they don't matter")

Edited by Grangur

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I think the value of an instrument should be determined by its feel, sound and build quality. If people are prepared to pay extra for the cachet of owning an instrument of a certain brand, in the expectation that they will be able to recoup that dividend when they resell because others will similarly value the brand, then that's their lookout imho. It's all marketing b/s, and we are fools if we buy into it. But then my only bass is a Peavey Milestone I got from Cash Converters for £50, so what do I know? :P

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1464263827' post='3058000']
Have you ever been on either end of a sale where the bass has been taken apart to proved authenticity?
[/quote]

Yes, I have sold a bass which was taken apart to prove authenticity and I was pleased to do so. If I was buying a 1964 P Bass (or whatever - chance would be a fine thing) I'd want to look at it very closely indeed.

But in the scheme of things Fender basses aren't very valuable, relatively speaking. If you were really going to fake something for a profit there must be easier and more lucrative objects to reproduce.

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1464265752' post='3058010']
It's all marketing b/s, and we are fools if we buy into it.
[/quote]

Exactly. Leo sold Fender in 1964 so all the Fenders made since then are fakes, surely..?? :P

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464272211' post='3058102']
Exactly. Leo sold Fender in 1964 so all the Fenders made since then are fakes, surely..?? :P
[/quote]

No because in any sale part of the valuation is IP which would have transferred to the new owners.

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464272211' post='3058102']
Exactly. Leo sold Fender in 1964 so all the Fenders made since then are fakes, surely..?? :P
[/quote]

Surely any Fender not actually built by Leo himself is fake with someone else's name slapped on it, no? :D

On one hand though, it's a Fender design so it should really have the OEM's name on it. On the other hand it wasn't actually built by said OEM.

....but on the third hand, and this ones a bit of a curveball, choose not to care what people do with their own property - unless you're a lawyer for Fender, presuming they care at all that is ! :happy:

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If it's honest and open then what's the problem .

Fender is a brand name that people find cool , so a functional bass with a logo is no different to a fake pair of shades

Personally if I built a bass id make a custom logo , but if someone wants a fender one , good luck to them

There was a lovely looking fake fender on the for sale earlier , someone got a bargain

Edited by lojo

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464275052' post='3058133']
No because in any sale part of the valuation is IP which would have transferred to the new owners.
[/quote]

Yes... I wasn't being entirely serious.

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My two gigging basses are a Squier VM precision 5 string and a Fender modern player Jazz 5 string. I have chosen to add a 70s style Fender logo to the Squier because I personally like the aesthetic of that particular version of the logo. I'm not trying to pass it off as a Fender (especially seeing as Fender have only made a five string precision for a few years anyway so not available in the 70s) and I'd be quite quick to point out it was a Squier if anyone were to ask about it at a gig.
Anyway. Neither of these two basses was actually made by fender themselves (the Jazz is Chinese built). The precision is actually more faithful to Fender's original design than the jazz with its twin humbuckers and of the two probably has the marginally better build quality.
Does the fact that the company has opted to market the jazz as Fender and the precision as a Squier licensed by fender actually make one more authentic than the other or is it actually a case of it being okay to issue a fake if it's the company itself doing it?

Incidentally though they're both brilliant basses and I have no intention of selling either of them to anybody :) !

Edited by Painy

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A squire is a nice guitar made to a lower budget and hence it says squire not fender. Changing the logo due to aesthetic preference is possibly the most original 'justification' I have ever heard. Anyhow, have to go, have to put a Bentley badge on my [url="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=chrysler+with+bentley+badge&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1468&bih=996&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixtbeb1PjMAhVRFMAKHU8RBdQQ_AUIBygB"]chrysler with bentley badge[/url]

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464297236' post='3058325']
A squire is a nice guitar made to a lower budget and hence it says squire not fender. Changing the logo due to aesthetic preference is possibly the most original 'justification' I have ever heard. Anyhow, have to go, have to put a Bentley badge on my [url="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=chrysler+with+bentley+badge&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1468&bih=996&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixtbeb1PjMAhVRFMAKHU8RBdQQ_AUIBygB"]chrysler with bentley badge[/url]
[/quote]

I'm not trying to justify it as such just explaining the reason I chose to do it. Most murderers have a reason for committing murder but very few could actually justify it after all. I don't actually have to justify it to anyone - it's my bass.
I was really trying to raise a point of discussion around the point that even Fender themselves put their logo on products that they haven't actually produced themselves.

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I think there are more important things to get upset about. People are entitled to do what they like with their own property, surely? If they want to put a sticker on their headstock it's neither here nor there. First world issue.

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464298784' post='3058347']
I think there are more important things to get upset about.
[/quote]

I think that about sums it up. The problem with BC these days is that every rant has been done a few too many times. I might start a rant about why people who want to rant don't check for previous threads containing the same rant?

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