'Showcase' in London... worth it?

[ambient]

I remember once an originals band that I played for was offered a 'chance' to have a track featured on a compilation CD of promising young bands, that would be sent around to radio stations and record companies.

We all thought wow, brilliant ! As you do when you're young and desperate for success.

Turns out we were expected to pay to record our track, we would also pay towards the production of the CD.

So we ask the guy who's very kindly given us this 'chance', well what happens to any money that's made from the sale of it. "Oh I keep that to cover my overheads", says he, "just think of the publicity".

This kind of thing is the latest incarnation of that.

[blue]

I hope this isn't a situation where the OP is the only band member that sees [i]"red flags" [/i]all over this and the other member are all wearing rose tinted glasses.

Maybe all young bands have to go through this as a part of the learning curve for this business.

Blue

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427608089' post='2732203']
I hope this isn't a situation where the OP is the only band member that sees [i]"red flags" [/i]all over this and the other member are all wearing rose tinted glasses.

Maybe all young bands have to go through this as a part of the learning curve for this business.

Blue
[/quote]

Yes, they do, we've all done this in our early 20's and I recall places like the Mean Fiddler, the Orange club and Ronnies' Scotts all having variations..but I also recall getting petrol exes if nothing else, but we were not talking 2 days on the road from Scotland..??

If you are not local to the gig and scene, then ask yourself just this one question, does the gig sound like they have your good interests at heart...and a dive-hole upstairs room in a pub is not something that would convince me..by far.
A few posters have more pertinent local knowledge or insight here and I'd be asking for the names of other bands that have done it recently and then contact them for first hand head-s up.
Surely a creditable enterprise would be able to provide some sort of credentials or track record and I'd want to talk to those
people without such a close involvement or interest.

I think you'd do better getting an agent or presence with Colleges and Unis' as they can pay and try to do things more 'right'..

The thing is this learning curve has likely been 'learnt' by quite a few here and they are trying to save the
guys money and effort.
This sort of trip could break a band, IMO..

Edited March 29, 2015 by JTUK

[Old Man Riva]

Christ, the Mean Fiddler and the Orange Club.. forgotten about those nights. The Barfly/Water Rats is the only venue I can ever remember seeing any record companies at.

The OP is right to exercise a degree of scepticism about The Enterprise/ITB gig.

You don't need to be in/play London anymore in order to get noticed - years ago you had no choice (with the odd exception - Manchester, Liverpool etc).

I think the band money could be spent more wisely than on this gig based on information so far..

[discreet]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427590237' post='2732162']
Question any offer to play anywhere that's not accompanied by an offer of money.
[/quote]

Would generally agree, but there are situations where it's worth taking the hit, IF there's a [i]very [/i]good reason.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427608089' post='2732203']
Maybe all young bands have to go through this as a part of the learning curve for this business.
[/quote]

Mandatory! There is no indication of the OP's age, but I'd say if under 25 then go for it, you are paying your dues. But if the OP is anywhere near the average age of members of this forum (147) then it will be a nightmare. You'll forget your meds, you'll get backache, you'll be grumpy because your stage trousers don't fit properly, you can't use any toilet but the one at home...

Edited March 29, 2015 by discreet

[geoham]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1427624106' post='2732334']


Would generally agree, but there are situations where it's worth taking the hit, IF there's a [i]very [/i]good reason.



Mandatory! There is no indication of the OP's age, but I'd say if under 25 then go for it, you are paying your dues. But if the OP is anywhere near the average age of members of this forum (147) then it will be a nightmare. You'll forget your meds, you'll get backache, you'll be grumpy because your stage trousers don't fit properly, you can't use any toilet but the one at home...
[/quote]

We're not exactly the youngest band. I'd probably have been a million times keener if I was ten or fifteen years younger minus the wife, kids and job! I'm 33 and the band range from 28 to 44.

[mike257]

[quote name='geoham' timestamp='1427640104' post='2732558']


We're not exactly the youngest band. I'd probably have been a million times keener if I was ten or fifteen years younger minus the wife, kids and job! I'm 33 and the band range from 28 to 44.
[/quote]

I'm always wary of these types of setups, although ITB are the real deal in terms of booking agents (go have a look at their roster if you need any confirmation - http://www.itb.co.uk/roster). As others have said, I'd want to know if it was genuinely an event endorsed by them and who is attending. Agents are also listed by name on their site so you can see soon enough if that ties up. I've lost count of the times I've heard some one is coming to gig to check a band out and is nowhere to be seen on the night.

The other thing to consider, unpleasant as it may be, is even if they are there, are they going to consider a group of thirty/forty somethings with careers, families and mortgages to pay a viable business investment in terms of breaking you as a new band. From what I see (I'm a sound engineer and occasional tour manager in the "day job ") everyone is looking for bands that are already doing it on their own steam to invest in. If you're not already up and down the country pulling good crowds into 200 cap venues across their the UK, and your personal circumstances mean you can't really go out and may the groundwork to do that, is it worth investing (probably, after all your expenses) the best part of four or five hundred quid on the off chance that a gig in a little run down Camden venue will be the catalyst you need? Apologies if that's a bit presumptuous as I don't know your band and circumstances, but that's pretty much the reality of it at this level of gigging.

[KK Jale]

Good stuff on this thread.

IMO, gigs like this are a no-no for anyone over roughly 24 unless there are benefits you can wangle.

When we did the Enterprise (four years ago now) we knew it was crap, but decided to do it because...
1. We wanted to strip the four-piece down to a duo for a laugh, and see if it could work (it did, kinda)
2. I wanted to lose my pedal-steel-in-front-of-a-real-audience cherry
3. A mate reckoned he could get a decent hand-held video out of it (he was as good as his word)

For travellers from far afield, alas I don't see any benefits at all... unless you can find another, better London gig the same weekend.

I sympathise with the OP's position, I've been the cynical one many times and it's a fine line between trying to share your hard-won experience for the good of the band and running the risk of being seen by the keener members as a negative influence.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='geoham' timestamp='1427640104' post='2732558']
We're not exactly the youngest band. I'd probably have been a million times keener if I was ten or fifteen years younger minus the wife, kids and job! I'm 33 and the band range from 28 to 44.[/quote]
[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1427642358' post='2732598']The other thing to consider, unpleasant as it may be, is even if they are there, are they going to consider a group of thirty/forty somethings with careers, families and mortgages to pay a viable business investment in terms of breaking you as a new band. From what I see (I'm a sound engineer and occasional tour manager in the "day job ") everyone is looking for bands that are already doing it on their own steam to invest in. If you're not already up and down the country pulling good crowds into 200 cap venues across their the UK, and your personal circumstances mean you can't really go out and may the groundwork to do that, is it worth investing (probably, after all your expenses) the best part of four or five hundred quid on the off chance that a gig in a little run down Camden venue will be the catalyst you need? Apologies if that's a bit presumptuous as I don't know your band and circumstances, but that's pretty much the reality of it at this level of gigging.
[/quote]

This - you have to be brutally honest with yourselves and ask, "Even if ITB did turn up on the night, what audience would they pitch your band at, once the polishing was done? Who would your target mainstream/profitable audience be?" Then bear in mind the logisitics for family and life etc due to your location.
Maybe hire a decent van and do it for kicks if you want to, but go in with your eyes open & you may just enjoy it.

Many, many years ago I used to call ITB on occasion to get tour dates for a couple of bands in advance. They were always very helpful, friendly & chatty. If they're the same now I would imagine they'd answer directly a lot of the questions you have.

[blue]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1427624106' post='2732334']
You can't use any toilet but the one at home... [/quote]

I thought that was only me. I never use the toilets at the bars we play. They're usually disgusting.

Blue

Edited April 1, 2015 by blue

[karlfer]

You are looking at a minimum 14 hours driving there and back.
Even if backline/kit etc are provided, one vehicle is going to cost you over £150 in fuel.
I don't even want to think what it's going to cost the guys from Stornaway, financially or time wise. M74 and down is one thing but.... ferries/planes whatever.
I would be doing a lot of research on the venue, Facebook etc. If it seems there are 30 people a night there and they are all punks or whatever...

The guys really need to decide if they want to invest this time, money and effort when the possible worst case scenario is nobody there, no pay of any type and the agency don't even bother turning up or talk to you.
If you can all afford to do it and all want to do it, despite the drawbacks, go for it.
Good luck regardless,
cheers,
Karl.

For what it's worth, I refused a Dutch Festival later this year, in the originals band I'm in. They offered us Euros 500. I worked out it was going to take 3 days out of my life, even complete slumming/one vehicle it was going to cost all of us £150 each. I wasn't popular, but that band is their dream, not mine. I'm just the replacement bass player as the original bailed.

Edited April 1, 2015 by karlfer

[spacey]

Once went on a coach trip to see a mates rock band get its big chance in Camden.

Turned out it was in Kentish near a market , back room, concrete floor, dog muck all over that the owner just scooped leaving the pizz on the floor, it walks in he said.
4 bands, they "headlined" which meant once the other bands beggared off it was the band and ten people from the coach, house PA with bust bass drivers and one horn, no "agents" no record companies and the stink of dog muck all night.

Quietist coach trip home ever....

Edited April 1, 2015 by spacey

[discreet]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1427885982' post='2735393']
Quietest coach trip home ever...
[/quote]

Ha, yes. The 'Going-to-give-it-up-as-a-bad-job-and-sell-all-my-gear' journey.

[EliasMooseblaster]

Having played the Enterprise once or twice myself, I could second a lot of the points already made on this thread! Still, some practical advice, because I'm sure your bandmates won't like it if you go back and tell them that you think the gig's a turkey because some people on the internet told you so!

[b]Find out who the other bands are. [/b]I understand your friends from Stornoway are sharing the bill with you, but what about local support? I've no idea how big your band is in your area, but I'm going to hazard a guess that you're relatively unknown in London - please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, you're probably going to be relying on the local support bands for an audience. (Unless ITB can show you a hefty guestlist of people they've rounded up to come and see this "showcase," though if they had such a guestlist, this event wouldn't be at the Enterprise, quite frankly.) Then, [b]find out if there's going to be any scope for you to make money back[/b], either through expenses payments, a door split, or even a fee.

[b]The next bit requires a bit of intuition on your part: [/b]investigate these bands. See how long they've been together and what's on their website, stalk their social media; any information that might give you some impression of how many people they might be able to attract. If there's going to be a split of the door takings, this could be a crucial decider in whether to take the gig. It will also give you some potential figures with which to back up your decision!

It does sound as if you might be the only member of the band who's wearing his "business hat" about this. I don't need to tell you that the streets of London are not paved with gold, but it sounds like the others may need some convincing of this! Ultimately, don't do it unless you are going to get some tangible return on your investment - my first impression is that you won't, but then I am acting on limited information.

[karlfer]

Your research starts here https://www.facebook.com/camdenenterprise

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427829641' post='2734851']
I thought that was only me. I never use the toilets at the bars we play. They're usually disgusting.

Blue
[/quote]


That can define the gig... if the toilets are awful, then not a gig I'm interested in.
Outdoors are probably excepted, to a degree.

[discreet]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1427886742' post='2735418']
I don't need to tell you that the streets of London are not paved with gold, but it sounds like the others may need some convincing of this!
[/quote]

Great post, which I have not quoted in its entirety as we are running out of internet. Thp!

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1427888729' post='2735448']



That can define the gig... if the toilets are awful, then not a gig I'm interested in.
Outdoors are probably excepted, to a degree.
[/quote]

That's a luxury I can't afford.

If the pay is right, I'm interested. However, I'll steer clear from the bathroom.

Blue

[RhysP]

Known quite a few people in bands that have had "showcase gigs" in London over the years, I even attended a couple of them.

Without exception they were a complete & total waste of time & effort for the bands involved.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427608089' post='2732203']
I hope this isn't a situation where the OP is the only band member that sees [i]"red flags" [/i]all over this and the other member are all wearing rose tinted glasses.


[/quote]

That's a situation that's all too familiar to me, and was a major factor in why I left one of my bands last year!

[discreet]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1427969797' post='2736400']
That's a situation that's all too familiar to me, and was a major factor in why I left one of my bands last year!
[/quote]

Tricky one really, as it's good to be positive and confident and all that, but it has to be tempered with realism. There's a very thin line between being determined and being deluded. It's the old thing about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result (a sign of madness)...

[blue]

This band is by no means young so I'm surprised it's only one member of the band,the OP that saw red flags immediately.

Blue

[discreet]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427989803' post='2736792']
This band is by no means young so I'm surprised it's only one member of the band, the OP, that saw red flags immediately.
[/quote]

I blame the government/economy/schools/parents (delete where applicable). It's now the case that most young people can't afford to leave home and often live with their parents, so we're seeing a generation of young adults who essentially remain children as there's no opportunity for them to gain true independence. Thus the usual lessons about working for a living and taking responsibility for one's own actions take longer to learn...

...I'm not suggesting the OP or his band are necessarily in this category, I just wanted to throw it out there!!

Edited April 2, 2015 by discreet

[Buzzy]

I did two "showcase" type gigs with my mates originals band at the Dublin Castle and the Anchor and Hope in Camden. The evening went like this, drive around for about 20 minutes trying to park. Dump the gear on the pavement while double parked then drive around again and find a parking space about a 20 minute walk from the gig. Walk into the gig and the promoter said "it's ok if two of the other bands use you bass amp isn't it mate ?"
I refused on the grounds that if they haven't got amps they are not a band. We were the second band on and we had a 30 minute slot, the other bands were in the other bar while we played and our audience was the 15 mates who had come to see us. Finished the set got the car, loaded up while the next band who had travelled from the midlands played to an empty room. Went home after wasting an evening and getting no money for doing it.
At least I only had a 50 mile round trip as Iive in Kent.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Buzzy

[Old_Ben]

I wouldn't do it if I were you, build your own following closer to home and then they'll come to you if you get a good reputation. This sounds like typical BS to get bands to come and play for free saying; "we invite everyone from sony records!" guaranteed not one of them turn up, (even worse is if one does turn up and no one is watching you play as you're an out of town band who brought no one except the girlfriends)