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chaypup

How to get round headstock copyright issues

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I recently sold my 4001, but not for quality and build issues. The bass was all round fantastic and easily the best one I ever played. I sold it because the shape was not for me and that would be the same for a Japanese version. When I was hunting for mine I played a few that were dogs, but this was because of poor maintenance not Ric issues. Some of the 4001's were awful and I think this is because owners did not know how to adjust the truss rods and they frequently broke.

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1426050170' post='2713765']



I have a Gold Top Bass...
[/quote]

Nice. The full fat model with lovely creamy tone :-)

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[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1426074176' post='2714015']
Nice. The full fat model with lovely creamy tone :-)
[/quote]

Udder basses are available...

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1426068158' post='2713905']

These basses have not been involved making a single piece of music that I have liked or listened to since I discovered what a bass guitar was.

[/quote]

This is an astonishing statement, unless you only listen to trad jazz played on a standup.

As for Ric, never played one, and got past the "they look cool" phase some time ago.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1426068158' post='2713905']
Really?

These basses have not been involved making a single piece of music that I have liked or listened to since I discovered what a bass guitar was.
[/quote]





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Well, strike Lemmy, Macca, Geddy, Squire and Foxton from the list of - er - music and there's not much left, tbh.

So if ChrisB doesn't like the 'Head, Wings, Rush, Yes and the Jam (he's actually more of a gangster rap fan - booyaka!) then he's probably safely in the right. Entirely feasible.

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[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1426119413' post='2714760']
Well, strike Lemmy, Macca, Geddy, Squire and Foxton from the list of - er - music and there's not much left, tbh.
[/quote]

If I may disagree, there's a lot of great music left. I'm surprised that an aside has stirred up so much incredulity. How can I not like Rics, Rush, Jam, Lemmy? Very easily.

I have to say I didn't realise how much of my listening was a Ric free zone until this thread started, but I can't find anyone I like playing one.

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[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1426119413' post='2714760']
Well, strike Lemmy, Macca, Geddy, Squire and Foxton from the list of - er - music and there's not much left, tbh.
[/quote]

Erratum - The above should have read something like '[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Well, strike Lemmy, Macca, Geddy, Squire and Foxton from the list of [u][i]popular[/i][/u] music [u][i]performed on Rickenbackers[/i][/u] and there's not much left, tbh'[/font]

But in some bizarre way I seem to have blown my sh*t the f**k up and created the unfortunate impression that I am at variance with m'learned friend Mr Chris_B, may he prosper and flourish.

Anyway, I am more or less of the mind that (i) very little of any interest has been performed on the Rickenbacker which could not as easily have been performed on anything else and (ii) that - with the exception of the Lemster and the Fish - the named individuals have in later years mostly performed the 'Rickenbacker' songs on instruments by different manufacturers with no detriment to the outcome.

In any case, it will all look the same in a hundred years time and no one will care.

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There are some comments here that Rickenbacker has to protect its brand and look at all the Chinese fakes that are now landing for Gibson and Fender.

Rickenbacker has significantly discouraged the sale of Rickenbacker copies (rather than instruments inspired by) by genuine companies. However, they haven't discouraged fakes and counterfeits any more than Gibson or Fender has. A quick look at Alibaba or similar sites show that there are large numbers of 'Chickenbackers' to choose from.

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John Hall seems to threaten legal action at the drop of a hat here but you can find dozens of Ric copies for sale on Talkbass.

Why can he act the bully boy over here but not in the US?

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[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1426130405' post='2714786']
In any case, it will all look the same in a hundred years time and no one will care.
[/quote]

I don't care [i]now[/i]. :)

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1426156262' post='2714951']

Why can he act the bully boy over here but not in the US?
[/quote]

Because he's [i]scary[/i] and we [i]let him[/i].

Not going to attempt to revive an old argument, but there is not, never has been, and never will be a Rickenbacker copy that is indistinguishable from the real thing. Particularly not this current Chickenbacker garbage.

J.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1426156262' post='2714951']
John Hall seems to threaten legal action at the drop of a hat here but you can find dozens of Ric copies for sale on Talkbass.

Why can he act the bully boy over here but not in the US?
[/quote]

I'm going to guess that he has to go after [i]somebody[/i] in order to demonstrate that he is protecting his trademarks, but turns a blind eye towards the ones that might have a bigger lawyer than he does!

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[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1426157883' post='2714984']
Not going to attempt to revive an old argument, but there is not, never has been, and never will be a Rickenbacker copy that is indistinguishable from the real thing.[/quote]

Presumably because they're all either worse or much, much better.

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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1426158094' post='2714987']
I'm going to guess that he has to go after [i]somebody[/i] in order to demonstrate that he is protecting his trademarks
[/quote]

This is precisely the case and in most instances is a prudent move by any copyright or trademark holder. The fact that it appears to have had almost no impact whatever on the 'Faker makers seems to elude Mr Hall and his Mouseketeers.



[i]Who's the leader of the club
That's made for you and me
R-I-C-K-Y M-O-U-S-E[/i]

[i]Ricky Mouse, Ricky Mouse
Forever let us hold our banner high
High, high, high[/i]

[i]We'll do things and we'll go places
All around the world
We'll go marching[/i]
[i]Ricky Mouse, Ricky Mouse[/i]

[i]Who's the leader of the club[/i]
[i]That's made for you and me
R-I-C-K-Y M-O-U-S-E[/i]

[i](copyright: Hall / Wessel)[/i]

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Hall possibly went after Basschat rather than TalkBass because he felt he could afford to piss off w few thousand Brits on a fairly UK centric forum, but not a massively subscribed international one. I wonder if the BC owners ever contacted the firm that he claimed represented him or RIC in the UK. I did, and they couldn't recall ever representibg him or his firm and certainly don't now.

With his claims of having worked for the British government and to know "important" people, Hall strikes me as a Walter Mitty like character.

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Hall "worked for the British government"? What have I missed?

J.

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[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1426193329' post='2715585']
Hall "worked for the British government"? What have I missed?

J.
[/quote]

4003 - licence to sue

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[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1426193329' post='2715585']
Hall "worked for the British government"? What have I missed?

J.
[/quote]

See this post on RickResource:

[url="http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=194687&p=209286&hilit=government+hall#p209286"]http://www.rickresou...nt+hall#p209286[/url]

It's part of a thread where someone's complaining about RIC's bad customer service with regard to the colour bleed on a blue bass. The guy posted a query regarding the problem on the official RIC forum. His post was removed, and he was subsequently banned from the forum. He then posted on Rickresource, where a number of other people came forward with the same issue affecting circa 2005 blue finished Ricks. Ben Hall (John Hall's son) acknowledged that there had been a problem. John Hall then waded in with his usual passive-aggressive stance and effectively told the original poster to shut up as his bass was "illegally imported".

Edited by chriswareham

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[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1426255244' post='2716218']
See this post on RickResource:
[url="http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=194687&p=209286&hilit=government+hall#p209286"]http://www.rickresou...nt+hall#p209286[/url]
[/quote]

A sad tale. The victim of Mr Hall's 'aggressive-aggressive' stance on that occasion was / is a member here, IIRC.

I have read a number of threads in which Mr Hall has participated. His demeanour, debating style and 'flexible' approach to factual analysis convinces me that he is the sort of person who would never be welcome in my home.

Edited by skankdelvar

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I must say, I think that one piece of wording by John Hall is - well, dodgy.

"As far as your instrument is concerned, we've made it very clear to you privately that we would have been happy to take care of your instrument, as we are doing with other people if:

1. If it was new and legally imported into the U.K. (It isn't)"

Apparently the instrument was imported unofficially. Hall says it either isn't new (but it was) or it was illegally imported into the UK (but it wasn't, it was unofficially imported). The wording implies an illegal act on the part of the current owner or of the seller, which I would suggest is probably defamatory. Not that I give a toss, it's only a Rickenbacker.

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Hall does seem to like to rant about what's "illegal". He has claimed in discussions like that one that the private sale of a 40-year-old copy is actually a criminal offence. Fortunately he's pretty harmless as delusional megalomaniacs go, and a reassuringly long way away.

Interesting to read through the thread to the end, and find that it was locked after a poster claimed that after several years of finish bleed, the lacquer on his bass actually started to fall off in chunks. The thread was locked before he could post photos.

Also interesting to see that RIC's warranty covers finishes for only 12 months - and that the warranty commences [i]from the[/i] [i]date of manufacture[/i]. Plainly Rickenbacker know perfectly well that they are selling shoddy, poorly-finished instruments, and this sham "warranty" helps cover their lardy, All-American arses.

As a company, I really don't know how they continue to trade. And I'm beginning to wish they didn't.

J.

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