Creativity, Is It Over-Rated?

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='DaytonaRik' timestamp='1417699475' post='2623166']
...Personally, creativity is great, but there is nothing like the feeling of being appreciated and a crowd responding to your efforts.regardless of who wrote the material but having written it yourself was the icing on the cake.
[/quote]

No problem with covers either. I will be having a dabble myself soon. It's still all live music at the end of the day.
I'm interested to see if the emotional feeling when playing is the same when I break my cover band cherry.

[chris_b]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1417695942' post='2623106']
That's entirely subjective.
[/quote]

Only a little.

There's a big difference between being creative and being original. I can arrange a number and be very creative, but most semi pro Originals bands are not very original.

There are exceptions, but what they write is usually derivative and not very well executed.

I have played with a few of these guys so I can say that I would much rather listen to and play a well crafted song by a professional writer, and I've played with some of those guys as well.

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417648775' post='2622772']
...

[size=4][font=Arial]This thread is not really for the, [i]" I have a job, I don't need the money"[/i] guys, however please chime in with your 2 bobs worth.( I'm a Yankee and I have been on this forum to long. I'm starting to talk like you guys )[/font][/size]

...
[/quote]

It's Tuppence worth. 2p

Anyway. I'm unsure of how much creativity there is in successful songwriting. If you understand how most popular songs are put together there start to be very few choices once you have come up with a melody for a verse, the chords are fairly obvious and a chorus should lead on and not sound out of place.

I can see how people can get frustrated when their baby doesn't become a hit but a lot of original material I hear has the basic elements wrong under the guise of being creative and original.

Depends on what you want to achieve with a song.

I wrote a ton of stuff when I was 17. At the time We were all going to be famous but I listen back now to maybe 30 or 40 tunes and I think maybe two or three of them stand out as hit material that I might consider getting some musicians to play now. But our fans loved it and we packed halls with 300+ people at a time.

I depped a few years ago with a band who had a reasonable local following. Their material was very good but I would have changed quite a few of their tunes. They would have then sounded more commercially viable but probably lost a lot of the creativity.

Don't know. It's tough and always a personal thing. While you write music for yourself you may only have an audience of one. What's more important?

.

Edited December 4, 2014 by TimR

[JTUK]

Blue is old enough to be '2 bob'

[DogHammer]

Most of my Projects have been original bands.

Didnt have too much creative input in the early ones due to not having the confidence with the instrument I suspect. But my current originals project and the one before it I have had full creative freedom with.

As for the OP, personally its definitely not overrated. I think playing covers is overrated.
My band currently gig originals probably every other weekend, sometimes more. And between this we do the odd 2 hour pub covers gig to earn some money for recording.

To me the covers stuff feels laborious and non creative. I am much happier playing the basslines and singing the songs that we create.

[leschirons]

I leave the creativity (song-wise) to other people that are far better at it than me. My only creative input is in what I personally play on an instrument.

At 16 (my first public paid gig and 46 years ago) I was going to change the world through rock music. We wrote songs, we took other people's songs and changed them a lot to put our stamp on them.

Soon after, we realised we were sh*t at it. Yet, we found we could play a 15 minute version of Gloria, stick a bass solo, a lead solo and a drum solo in it, and get applause. That's when the creativity stopped

[BigRedX]

Don't forget that the majority of covers bands need a reasonably steady supply of new original songs to keep their audiences happy.

It's all very well saying that originals bands don't have the song writing skills required to compete with the "professionals" but IME most professionals are hardly turning out hit after hit, and remember that we only get to hear the songs that they consider worthy, which are generally only a small percentage of the ideas they actually come up with.

[TimR]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1417704159' post='2623243']
Don't forget that the majority of covers bands need a reasonably steady supply of new original songs to keep their audiences happy.

It's all very well saying that originals bands don't have the song writing skills required to compete with the "professionals" but IME most professionals are hardly turning out hit after hit, and remember that we only get to hear the songs that they consider worthy, which are generally only a small percentage of the ideas they actually come up with.
[/quote]

Quite. I'm thinking more that if the inspiration is there the rest of the song should be simple to build. I have a feeling too many people are trying too hard.

As was mentioned above, "originals are boring to play". You have to ask why are they boring to play and yet the audience can't seem to get enough.

Look at bands whose songs are not boring to play, perhaps bands who are at the technically difficult to play end of the spectrum, and ask what kind of audience do they attract.

So as far as I'm concerned the creativity bit is over once you write the melody and fit the words. After that you're into technical construction skills and the creativity needs to toe the line.

[Commando Jack]

Musicians tend to overrate creativity in my experience.

The rest of the world doesn't value it enough.

[Paul S]

Creativity is the life force of any facet of art, without it aesthetics stagnate. The tricky bit is sorting the wheat from the chaff, at least as far as I am concerned - but therein lies the problem as any form of art is subjective.

To my ears, the overwhelming majority of 'new' originals bands I have listened to might have created their material but it isn't worth listening to. Writing good material is, imo, extremely difficult. Maybe I am fussy, I don't know. An example - I saw Imelda May a couple of nights ago and, mainly, enjoyed the gig. But I felt she had 1 hour of good material padded out by nearly an hour of stuff that didn't quite hit the mark. And she is a popular artist, so maybe I am just fussy.

I would personally rather play in a covers band where you can choose from a distillation of the best tunes of the last 50 years that have stood the test of time - great tunes to play that people are familiar with, or occasionally great tunes that people should be familiar with but aren't. To doggedly stick to churning out second rate material just because someone in the band wrote it I would find depressing.

Of course if anyone is lucky enough to be involved in an originals band that wrote strong material then that's great. It just seems to me to be a rarity.

[blue]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1417691116' post='2623031']
Have you tried writing songs?[/quote]

Yes, I have attempted coming up with original songs many times. Results have always been a load of rubbish, socially irrelevant lyrics, marginal melody and structure.

Blue

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[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1417701182' post='2623185']
Blue is old enough to be '2 bob'
[/quote]

Nice! I'm older not old, big difference.

Blue

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

Edited December 5, 2014 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='DogHammer' timestamp='1417701281' post='2623187']
Most of my Projects have been original bands.

Didnt have too much creative input in the early ones due to not having the confidence with the instrument I suspect. But my current originals project and the one before it I have had full creative freedom with.

As for the OP, personally its definitely not overrated. I think playing covers is overrated.
My band currently gig originals probably every other weekend, sometimes more. And between this we do the odd 2 hour pub covers gig to earn some money for recording.

To me the covers stuff feels laborious and non creative. I am much happier playing the basslines and singing the songs that we create.
[/quote]

I think that sort of happiness might be regional. Milwaukee is a blue collar cover band city, always has been always will be. There is practically no market or interest in original bands here. There are a few back rooms with a $5.00 cover. You might see a few family members and friends, otherwise these rooms are empty. Now I understand there are some cities with a big appreciation for originals as well as cool venues.

Blue

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

[blue]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1417713026' post='2623392']
I would personally rather play in a covers band where you can choose from a distillation of the best tunes of the last 50 years that have stood the test of time - great tunes to play that people are familiar with, or occasionally great tunes that people should be familiar with but aren't. To doggedly stick to churning out second rate material just because someone in the band wrote it I would find depressing.

Of course if anyone is lucky enough to be involved in an originals band that wrote strong material then that's great. It just seems to me to be a rarity.
[/quote]

I think many stereotype cover and and originals bands. It's like anything else, there's good and bad in both.

Blue

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

Edited December 4, 2014 by blue

[lee4]

I drew a "line in the sand" this year and refused to play covers.
This means I will be turning down the chance to join a band or bands that will(probably)be getting paid,
but cover versions leave me cold.
I enjoy writing and collaborating with other writers to create original material that in all probability will never gain commercial success,
or make me money,but that is not the reason why I prefer original material.
I don't believe that anything I write will change the world or improve anyone's life(I'm not that arrogant or naive!),I simply like to create.

[Conan]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417722487' post='2623520']
I think many stereotype cover and and originals bands. It's like anything else, there's good and bad in both.
[/quote]

Spot on that man!

Over the years I have probably split my time between covers bands and original bands - not intentionally, but that's just the way it's worked out. When I look back on the bands I've played in, I think of them in two categories - the good ones and the not-so-good ones. What makes the good ones good is not the material they play(ed), but whether the band "worked" on a level that allowed me to enjoy playing with them. Some got good audiences, some regularly played to nearly empty rooms. That wasn't a big factor either.

Some of the musicians were "creative", others less so. Again, this was not one of the big factors that made playing with them enjoyable.

I think as musicians we tend to categorise audiences, not remembering that an audience is made up of individuals, and individuals can surprise you. IME, punters tend to react positively to bands that look like they are enjoying themselves, are tight and play accessible material. Whether that material is original or cover seems less important.

Maybe I'm lucky. The songwriter in my current band seems to be able to write songs that sound familiar at the first listen, but are not derivative - perfect combination! Individual band members then stamp their creativity (or lack of it) by adding their own parts to the basic guitar arrangement that he provides (or [i]suggests[/i]). It is not a complicated model, but it works for us.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Conan

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417721809' post='2623501']
Nice! I'm older not old, big difference.

Blue

[/quote]

No offence Blue, but the term relates to a time when 'bob' was a reference to money and I think the time we ( UK ) went 'decimal'
was 1971. So, 'bob' meant our old shillings...as in pounds, shillings and pence.
Also, it was a slang term for cheap... so if you said someone was 'two bob' you meant they were a cheap person.
We tended to use 'tuppence' when stating an opinion... as tuppence was also old currency and these terms
probably dated back to the 1930's. 40's and 50's.

You'd only know all this if you knew people from those generations that used that terminology so if you knew people from the U.K in the 70's
you'd likely come across that terminolgy, slang or vernacular...

[TimR]

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070419062802AAOcYfk

[FinnDave]

My band is not a covers band, it is a band which creatively reinterprets a variety of well-known songs

[xgsjx]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417721388' post='2623494'] Yes, I have attempted coming up with original songs many times. Results have always been a load of rubbish, socially irrelevant lyrics, marginal melody and structure. Blue [size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board [size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size] [size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size] [size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] [/quote]

It's like anything. You can learn how to do something, but there's those who have the natural skills to put things together well & those who don't.

Many folk can be taught how to make cakes. Many don't spend time learning how to finish them well. It's a patience and perseverance thing.

[TimR]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1417796756' post='2624137']


It's like anything. You can learn how to do something, but there's those who have the natural skills to put things together well & those who don't.

Many folk can be taught how to make cakes. Many don't spend time learning how to finish them well. It's a patience and perseverance thing.
[/quote]

Good analagy.

I'd also go further and say like a good cake it's the cake that's important. The icing is ok as long as it's not too thick with too many sprinkles.

Put it on a plate. Eat it. Make the next one.

Don't try to re-ice it or keep moving the sprinkles around.

.

Edited December 5, 2014 by TimR

[Low End Bee]

Creative is sometimes stretching it a bit.

Intro - Verse - Chorus - Verse - Chorus - Smashinging orangey bit - Verse - Double chorus and out

Stick it all in A if possible. If not keep it on the dotted bits of the neck. Maybe stick a C# minor in to make it sound clever if you have to.

Lyrics - Count up your syllables - make it rhyme now and then.

That's how I do it anyway.


If it's jazz you can just tune up for a bit

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1417777435' post='2623881']
No offence Blue, but the term relates to a time when 'bob' was a reference to money and I think the time we ( UK ) went 'decimal'
was 1971. So, 'bob' meant our old shillings...as in pounds, shillings and pence.
Also, it was a slang term for cheap... so if you said someone was 'two bob' you meant they were a cheap person.
We tended to use 'tuppence' when stating an opinion... as tuppence was also old currency and these terms
probably dated back to the 1930's. 40's and 50's.

You'd only know all this if you knew people from those generations that used that terminology so if you knew people from the U.K in the 70's
you'd likely come across that terminolgy, slang or vernacular...
[/quote]

Got it, [i]"my tuppence worth"[/i] is that the correct phrase?

Blue


[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

[blue]

[quote name='EddyGlee' timestamp='1417792121' post='2624086']
I live in Yorkshire and still call 50p.. “Ten Bob”


He’s one for ya Blue

If thar Bob dunt gi' ar Bob that Bob he owes ar Bob, then ar Bob is gunna gi' thar Bob a Bob on’t nose

Which translates..

If your Robert doesn't give our Robert that five pence he owes are Robert, Than our Robert is going to punch your Robert on the nose.
[/quote]

I love it.

Blue

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

[xilddx]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417808004' post='2624282']
Got it, [i]"my tuppence worth"[/i] is that the correct phrase?

Blue


[color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color]

[color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color]
[color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color]
[color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color] w/ebony fret board
[font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font]
[font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)
[color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color]
[color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color]
[/quote]

Listen mate, saying two bob's worth is perfectly cool. Anyone telling you it isn't is trying to curtail your creativity and interpretation. Anyway, I say two bob's worth as well, and I'm a f***ing limey ****.

As for your original question, creativity is both greatly underrated and undervalued. Sadly, even fabulously creative bands and writers often don't get anywhere because audiences are largely unimaginative and need feeding with familiarity. Cover bands have become somewhat scourge-like in the UK, because audiences like a dance and ten Jaegerbombs to all them songs they listened to ten years ago. And pubs love all that Jaegerbomb sh*t so they book cover bands at 300 quid a pop and mint it with the rather too happy audience. Other than that it's the resurgence of old bands getting back together to be a tribute of themselves. I saw GONG last week and it was a fabulous night of trippy nostalgia. It's f***ing hard for new bands with any originality and creativity to break in the UK, and it's probably the same in the States.