codhead Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Right, so here we go... I currently have this setup: - Ashdown Mag 600 - Trace Elliot 1518t @ 8 ohms Basically, what I figured out yesterday after my gig is that I simply do not have nearly enough volume, with constant clipping and basically an unclear sound. And yes, I'm running a 600w amp. What I have figured out though is that it's because of that independence shizzle, meaning that I'm not pushing out even nearly enough power that I'm capable of. I am still slightly confused that it's soooo quiet and can't keep up with two guitars and drums at small venue, but I still believe it has everything to do with this. So basically I'm stuck between two posts. Do I: a) sell it all and get a combo sell the head and get a head with a 8ohm output c) sell the cab and get one with a 4ohm input d) get another cab at 8ohms (I'm not really wanting to do this for practical reasons) If anybodies ever had a similar exeperience, or has some good advice, that'd be absolutely wonderful. Josh Edited June 12, 2014 by codhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Another cab would be the best solution volume wise... more speakers will move more air and you'll be putting out the full power of your amp... But it will be something else to carry obviously. Those trace cabs are bloody heavy though.. I'd replace it with modern neo 212. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Tilt the cab back, so that it aims at your head. You'll be able to hear yourself much better that way. If it's still not enough you need to investigate a better speaker, your head has plenty of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I would ditch the combo option, very few will go 600w+ and head is plenty loud enough for medium sized gigs... Remember, watts != perceved volume. Some other options/suggestions... - Make sure the gain on your guitar is all the way up (just short of clipping) - Make sure the gain on your amp is all the way up (ditto) - Make sure anything else between guitar and amp is all the way up. - Then (and only then) make sure the master volume on your amp is all the way up.This should be the only dial you change from now on to adjust volume. - Replace the cab for a more sensative one (not one which cries at the end of ET, a sensative cab doesnt need as much power to produce the same spl) - Cut the lows, boost the mids - Swap the 115 for a 210 or 112 (gets you as above) - Add a 210 / 112 / 410 - Get the band to turn down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 That TE cab is pretty loud in my opinion. I use the 1153 myself and it provide me enough volume for the stuff I do, mine you i gig with a 200watt Trace Amp and a 30watt Ashdown LB30. You need more speaker for volume, watts doesn't give you as much volume as you might think. If your band is not playing very loud on stage and guitarist is not cracking up bass etc to suck up your tone. I would look into EQ first before buying anything. Lows usually sucks up power and doesn't cut through so you need to turn up higher in order to hear yourself. That means you will eventually run out of headroom (power) to go louder or remain clean. The Ashdown amps have something that boost the low, I would recommend turn that off along with the compression (if you got that on your amp) first. Try boosting the mid and cut some bass to see how it goes. Sometimes it sound very very bad on its own with those EQ but works well in band setting and in the mix. I tend to find myself cut bass and boost alot of mid when playing live and the low still remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Could be all sorts of things...but that amp into 8ohms should be plenty loud enough. You may not be driving the amp clean enough so the gain suggestions might be pertinent or the cab is a tired unit and can't do clean anymore. I'd be surprised if that 15" could do 300watts either so you might be driving it too hard. If you are happy enough with the amp... you need to attend to the cab. Simple suggestion... pair it with another 8ohm cab just to see if that helps your sound...I'd be thinking there will be a massive improvement but then you are hauling round 2 cabs. The 212 Neo idea is good but will not be a cheap option... but basically that TE cab can't do what you want it to...unless you have screwed up the gain settings and even then, there are better newer options, by far, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Hi everyone, Thanks for the quick response. Gonna go through all your stuff one at a time... I also forgot to add that I'm kinda on a budget. So, budget and practicality are the biggest things right now. [b] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/30238-camdenrob/"]CamdenRob[/url][/b] The Neo 212 looks great, but again its 8ohms, so I'm worried about losing out of steam. Maybe it is the low wattage of my cab that's a problem... Also, 400ish quid is expensive, I'm really tight on dollar so apologies. [b] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/446-bill-fitzmaurice/"]Bill Fitzmaurice[/url][/b] 'invest in a better speaker' +1, starting to believe that that's my best bet. [b] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/9809-thurbs/"]Thurbs[/url][/b] A sensative cab seems very ideal. Yeah, I'm thinking this is definitely something that need fixing (out with the cab). Weird thing is though that I remember (when I went to buy the amp), the dude that was selling actually put a 200w Peavey through and it was immediately more defined and louder... that confused me a bit, so could someone try and explain that? [b] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/10505-badboy1984/"]badboy1984[/url][/b] I turned off the low bass eq when I played last night and it stopped a lot of the peaking. Still had a problem. And what you're saying is exactly what I was saying above: 200w is louder. Funny... [b] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/6454-jtuk/"]JTUK[/url][/b] Yeah, the amp was definitely not clean last night, very muddy. Feeling the amp just can't push itself enough because of the limitations of the cab. ------------------- So yeah, I am very new to all this fiasco-ness with bass amps and stuff, keep your answers coming, this is all good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 id be tempted to try the route of eq first, i have never been wanting for volume when using a trace 1153 a few years back with a markbass head which only put out 300w at 8 ohm. also if its a i cant hear myself volume problem then i would def try eq as alot of things could be in your freq range especially with two guitar doing a mid scoop sound, try as has been suggested above i think try cutting the bass and boosting mids (mids are your friend) also there is the possibly sad truth that you just dnt like the sound the mag puts out, so maybe a dif head or a preamp pedal into the poweramp section, ie something like a sansamp or dunlop m-80 could be a cheaper solution to a new rig andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1402590989' post='2475128'] id be tempted to try the route of eq first, i have never been wanting for volume when using a trace 1153 a few years back with a markbass head which only put out 300w at 8 ohm. also if its a i cant hear myself volume problem then i would def try eq as alot of things could be in your freq range especially with two guitar doing a mid scoop sound, try as has been suggested above i think try cutting the bass and boosting mids (mids are your friend) also there is the possibly sad truth that you just dnt like the sound the mag puts out, so maybe a dif head or a preamp pedal into the poweramp section, ie something like a sansamp or dunlop m-80 could be a cheaper solution to a new rig andy [/quote] Andy, Yeah, the guy I bought the Ashdown off keeps saying that I should check out Sansamp bass drivers or whatever. It just really doesn't feel loud enough, like EQ aside, its really not jumping out there, there's none of that bass boom. It's weird. I need to try it through another cab really to get an idea. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 [quote name='codhead' timestamp='1402591467' post='2475136'] Andy, Yeah, the guy I bought the Ashdown off keeps saying that I should check out Sansamp bass drivers or whatever. It just really doesn't feel loud enough, like EQ aside, its really not jumping out there, there's none of that bass boom. It's weird. I need to try it through another cab really to get an idea. Josh [/quote] well worth a try thru a 212 or 410 cab. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 @OP before you consider buying different gear, how about posting a picture/detailed description of how you normally set the EQ and whether you use the deep setting and subharmonic generator on your amp. You may not need to buy anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1402601201' post='2475283'] @OP before you consider buying different gear, how about posting a picture/detailed description of how you normally set the EQ and whether you use the deep setting and subharmonic generator on your amp. You may not need to buy anything at all. [/quote] This sounds like a good idea to me... Half the battle is learning how best to use the gear you currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1402601201' post='2475283'] @OP before you consider buying different gear, how about posting a picture/detailed description of how you normally set the EQ and whether you use the deep setting and subharmonic generator on your amp. You may not need to buy anything at all. [/quote] Here's my setup. I have the subharmonic thing on just that bit, and use the GE7 as a boost for my fuzz. I kept it on at the gig the other night to just allow a bit of extra cut through. I have tried shifting leads and bypassing my pedals to go straight into the amp and have had no luck. However, I found another forum of similar issues with the MAG, and everything right now is pointing towards a blown preamp fuse, meaning that it's causing the overall volume to lurch massively. I took the bass boost off at the gig. Another thing to bare in mind is if I bypass the EQ, the amp is REALLY quiet, like no where near loud enough for a gig, and that's even if I turn the input and output on full (in which it's peaking too much to be of any use). So yeah, my best bet is to go the local guitar shop and get them to open this baby up, something tells me this could be a very quick replacement. Josh Edited June 13, 2014 by codhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Yes, that subharmonic thingy on its own sounds good, but I found it pretty unusable in a band setting. There shouldn`t be any problems with a 300 watt amp (assuming that`s what it gives at 8ohms) in a band setting. I agree with the others, set everything flat and if more volume/presence needed, up Mids rather than Lows. Cab-wise, well you`d more than likely get more out of a 410 or 212 - assuming sensitivity is the same as the TE - due to more speakers, plus those TE cabs are heavy. An Ashdown 410 would probably not weigh any more than the TE. And you can pick those up fairly reasonably, about £200 for a 410 is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 Also, like my friend said, 600w at 8ohms from 4ohms should still be killer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 def starting to sound like theres something up with that amp, looking at your settings there nothing extreme going on with the amp, and if you have turned input and ouput to max you shouldnt be able to stand near it let alone want it louder! andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 [quote name='codhead' timestamp='1402651735' post='2475606'] Here's my setup. I have the subharmonic thing on just that bit, and use the GE7 as a boost for my fuzz. I kept it on at the gig the other night to just allow a bit of extra cut through. [/quote] I might be wrong here, but I thought a lot of guitar pedals had a HPF built in. I tried using a Boss Overdrive pedal once and there was no bottom end at all... I think this is also the reason there's a Bass Muff and a Big Muff so might be a few things going on there. You might want to try going straight into the amp from the bass, see how it sounds. If it's full and the boom is back, add in the pedals one at a time to see what's what. 300W (8R) from your amp through a 15" Trace Elliot speaker should be thunderous, especially with the Sub boost... Although, you might want to turn that off too - I know it sounds like the opposite of what you want, but the low, low frequencies take up tons of headroom and actually you might be better with something in the 80 - 120Hz region for a big deep sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Trace elliot cab is very loud in my experience. I own a 1153 myself and is loud for a single 15". Not sure is band gigging louder and louder these days or people just play too quiet in the old days. My trace 15" and a trace amp is loud enough, anything bigger then a small venue you probably DI to the desk .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm not familiar with MAG series, tell me something, does it have a 12AX7 valve on the preamp? An old valve can cause big volume drops. +1 on the check EQ first: set gain at optimum level, less bass, no sub-harmonic, no bass boost, increase low-mids and set highs at taste - this would be the first thing i would try. From my experience TE cabs may be ineficient but they play very loud, you shouldn't have any problems hearing yourself with a 600W amp going into that cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 [quote name='codhead' timestamp='1402581133' post='2474999'] What I have figured out though is that it's because of that independence shizzle, [/quote] For me, Clive, this is still the nub of the problem. Getting the settings right on the independence shizzle is a real art form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Josh Happy to take a look and try swapping heads/cabs around if you are local to me (I'm in Swindon). PM me if this might work for you. Edited June 19, 2014 by JapanAxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 i found that the key to cutting through the mix was the middle of the frequency band, from the picture it looks like your amp is set quite flat but the eq pedal is set to a smily curve (cutting the mids) try changing it to a frowny curve, i use the same eq pedal and have it set like that to act as a boost to help me cut through more on certain songs, abit of mid boost can work wonders. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 [quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1403256058' post='2481154'] i found that the key to cutting through the mix was the middle of the frequency band, from the picture it looks like your amp is set quite flat but the eq pedal is set to a smily curve (cutting the mids) try changing it to a frowny curve, i use the same eq pedal and have it set like that to act as a boost to help me cut through more on certain songs, abit of mid boost can work wonders. Matt [/quote] Good spot Matt. Yes, adding a touch on the two sliders next to the one that`s furthest left should get a good mix-present sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I've said this countless times before..broken record time... you want to position your bass in the grand mix by EQ'ing the whole band.... if you just make sure the bass comes thru by just midding the thing out... you can end up with a low hump which is heard but really doesn't or can't underpin the band. This is NOT the thing you want to achieve IMV. Of course, you can leave it to the FOH mix...if you have one, but you need to know what the engr is going to do with it. If you go too far with mids... you can lose the whole reason you want bass in the 1st place. Far better to clear out what you want to punch thru in the first place...IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Unless you know how to set pedals up well trying to get the same sound in a live gig mix is hard, I cant so I dont, Flea cant but he still does, and I am a Flea fan! Once you have all that shizzle before the DI the engineer is fighting a losing battle before you even begin, clean input and DI then add the pedals to the FX loop and let the engineer mic the amp up on a fresh channel so they can be blended together, almost always ending up with nothing but your Jazz bass and a great PA system giving you a awesome sound and a tad of your amp to keep you happy that dragging them along was worth it If that cab and amp cant reproduce the frequencies you want from them then volume will be an issue also IMO, I really would try mixing your amp and cab with some others from a local basschatter and see what is what, if that Ashdown is still muddy to your ears with a modern Neo 2x12 with a horn well you will be joining quite a few people on here than have decided Ashdown is not for them, likewise if it sounds great you know what santa needs to bring you Edited June 21, 2014 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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