Sean Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1399819825' post='2447971'] I had a Walkabout for while - didn't get on with it at all and sold it very quickly. Sounded a bit flat and wooly to me, especially in combo format [/quote] You sold it to me! And I think it's the best combo ever! I can get it to sizzle and don't find it all wooly. Although, it transforms when it goes through a big sensitive cab, it's amazing. I think all this just goes to show how incredibly subjective tone is and why we should all do the TalkBass thing and use YMMV more often (not)! Now then, while we're on the subject of wooly, I had an Ashdown once and that was so wooly it make my skin itch and I had to wash it at 30 Deg and not tumble dry! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Sorry for going of topic, but.. Could someone explain the use of the term 'heft'? I've seen it a few times in relation to amplifiers I still don't understand what its being used to describe. I own a Walkabout (AB) an LM3 (AB) and a Demeter Minnie 800 (D) and I've put them through the same cab, same bass in the same room and while there are the expected tonal differences to the output I'm not personally finding much else. Perhaps its me? Has anyone managed a Tom Bowlus style pre amp line out connecion mod on their WA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1400061987' post='2450273'] Sorry for going of topic, but.. Could someone explain the use of the term 'heft'? I've seen it a few times in relation to amplifiers I still don't understand what its being used to describe. I own a Walkabout (AB) an LM3 (AB) and a Demeter Minnie 800 (D) and I've put them through the same cab, same bass in the same room and while there are the expected tonal differences to the output I'm not personally finding much else. Perhaps its me? Has anyone managed a Tom Bowlus style pre amp line out connecion mod on their WA? [/quote] It's a very subjective thing - some people seem to pick up on it, and others don't. I noticed with my AI Focus, Streamliner and TC RH450 that although I could hear the notes, and they were loud, they just lacked impact. They felt almost hollow. At the time, I was doing a lot of gigs with hired backline, and any amp that had a transformer in it just seemed to have a quality the micros lacked. I can't speak for your experience of course, but maybe the Demeter doesn't have the same kind of signal management that you find on the more mainstream lightweight heads? I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 what is the output of the walkabout combo & matching ext cab? combo is 4 ohm, cab 8 ohm. i know its driving the amp below its recommended 4 ohm, but theres lots of people say the amp can handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1400063135' post='2450287'] It's a very subjective thing - some people seem to pick up on it, and others don't. I noticed with my AI Focus, Streamliner and TC RH450 that although I could hear the notes, and they were loud, they just lacked impact. They felt almost hollow. At the time, I was doing a lot of gigs with hired backline, and any amp that had a transformer in it just seemed to have a quality the micros lacked. I can't speak for your experience of course, but maybe the Demeter doesn't have the same kind of signal management that you find on the more mainstream lightweight heads? I dunno. [/quote] Thank you for the reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1400063135' post='2450287'] It's a very subjective thing - some people seem to pick up on it, and others don't. I noticed with my AI Focus, Streamliner and TC RH450 that although I could hear the notes, and they were loud, they just lacked impact. They felt almost hollow. [/quote] Beat me too it and couldn't have described it better. I tried an RH450 twice and really wanted to like it, then tried an Eden WT550 and the difference was obvious. So much more "balls and presence". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 WoT, as a matter of interest have you ever tried the Orange Terror? Having tried the Orange and the Genz side by side I much preferred the Orange, but I'd be interested to hear how the WA would sit in that company. I've been talking myself out of a WA for years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1400072965' post='2450452'] WoT, as a matter of interest have you ever tried the Orange Terror? Having tried the Orange and the Genz side by side I much preferred the Orange, but I'd be interested to hear how the WA would sit in that company. I've been talking myself out of a WA for years... [/quote] The OBT would be substantially louder. If that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1400077685' post='2450518'] The OBT would be substantially louder. If that matters. [/quote] I would think so, it's more the tonal difference I'm wondering about. As it happens I really rate the OTB. There are a few 'cork sniffers' round these parts who wouldn't even give them a chance but they're everything I look for in an amp. Admittedly the form factor isn't ideal though! Edited May 14, 2014 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1400077685' post='2450518'] The OBT would be substantially louder. If that matters. [/quote] OBT louder than the WA, do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1400077768' post='2450519'] .........There are a few 'cork sniffers' round these parts who wouldn't even give them a chance... [/quote] Great phrase - Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 FWIW, I genuinely feel that I don't have to run my Walkabout as loud as the TC or the Streamliner. It's not about cutting through - it's more that it's more supportive and authoritative without having to rely on volume to get the message across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1400079637' post='2450545'] It's not about cutting through - it's more that it's more supportive and authoritative without having to rely on volume to get the message across. [/quote] I very much agree with this line. Qu - How did you get on with gigging the WA through the 15" TKS cabinet, or was this a short lived trial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1400077768' post='2450519'] I would think so, it's more the tonal difference I'm wondering about. As it happens I really rate the OTB. There are a few 'cork sniffers' round these parts who wouldn't even give them a chance but they're everything I look for in an amp. Admittedly the form factor isn't ideal though! [/quote] The OTB is a very very powerful amp, especially considering its size/weight/cost. Its is probably a 1/3 of the price of the WA, but no, its tone is different and will not do the WA tone. [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1400078036' post='2450522'] OBT louder than the WA, do you mean? [/quote] Just in terms of absolute power. Orange tend to underrate their amps, and I'm sure there are tests printed that show the OBT pushing out way more than 500W. Wattage isn't everything though, but it just so happens I personally like the Orange tone (although I don't own a OTB - I've just had a go on a few). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1400080635' post='2450560'] Qu - How did you get on with gigging the WA through the 15" TKS cabinet, or was this a short lived trial? [/quote] It's only short-lived 'cos it's not my cab! It's glorious - they're a great match. I did quite a few gigs with that combination. That said, someone talked Tommy into letting them by it 'cos they loved it so much, but just before the deal went through they scored an endorsement from a major manufacturer.. so it's available again. I'm debating whether to go for it, or stick with my original plan of getting the 2x12. We'll see. [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1400081057' post='2450566'] Wattage isn't everything though [/quote] Yes indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1400063135' post='2450287'] It's a very subjective thing - some people seem to pick up on it, and others don't. I noticed with my AI Focus, Streamliner and TC RH450 that although I could hear the notes, and they were loud, they just lacked impact. They felt almost hollow. At the time, I was doing a lot of gigs with hired backline, and any amp that had a transformer in it just seemed to have a quality the micros lacked. I can't speak for your experience of course, but maybe the Demeter doesn't have the same kind of signal management that you find on the more mainstream lightweight heads? I dunno. [/quote] I know the TC RH450 does some kinda parallel processing - it mixes a compressed signal path with an uncompressed one. So you still get some of the peaks at the attack of the note but then the compressed signal means that the volume appears louder. Of course if it sounds louder then the uncompressed signal can also be limited slightly.... leaving you with a loud sound that doesn't behave quiet right. The comparison I use is a gig where we had the drummer using a (top of the range) electronic kit. We didn't have nice IEM to hear so instead used wedge monitors. Now the drums sounded good, great even in the FOH, and were loud as anything in the monitors - but limiting somewhere down the line meant that I couldn't hear the attack on the kick and snare well enough to lock into. Of course the example I used of the RH450 possibly talks more about the preamp than the poweramp class.... my old Powersoft Tecamp Puma was essentially a very simple preamp stuck in front of one of Powersoft's Digimod 1000 units.... and that didn't display (to me) any of the difficiacies we've been talking about. Shame that Tecamp went for a cheaper set of Class D units... the powersoft was nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Oops double post. Edited May 14, 2014 by JapanAxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399806222' post='2447785'] In point of fact you could use a transformer PSU with a class D amp but it defeats the point somewhat since the primary design objective is light weight and efficiency. Conversely you can use a switched mode PSU with a class A/B/AB with some additional trickery that allows them to vary the supply voltage in line with the signal thus overcoming the inherent inefficiency of A/B/AB designs operating on a fixed voltage. This is the so-called "class H" design used in earlier light weight PA amps such QSC PLX range but this design seems to be losing ground to class D designs these days. [/quote] [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399806646' post='2447796'] The power supply and associated mains transformer are a separate issue from the type of power amp used. Usually Class-D amps and switch-mode power supplies are used together, but there are exceptions. The older Acoustic Image heads had a linear power supply with a toroidal mains transformer powering a Class-D power amp and were surprisingly weighty for their size. The Markbass LMII uses a lightweight switch-mode power supply with a class-AB power amp. [/quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] I knew this would come back to bite me! Yes I am aware of this, but couldn't be @rsed to go into the full details. My bad! [/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1400061987' post='2450273'] Sorry for going of topic, but.. Could someone explain the use of the term 'heft'? I've seen it a few times in relation to amplifiers I still don't understand what its being used to describe. [/quote] It's a term I use and appreciate and to me the amps with big transformers that supply high currents continuously rather than in bursts, have heft. This is particularly true of the classic valve amps like the SVT, 400+ and GT200 and what you just can't and don't achieve with things like the Genz Benz products. They both hit the same SPLs but there's a tangible difference to the quality of the sound. I'm sure there's someone on here who could explain the physics. One isn't better than the other, just different. The WA has a certain amount of heft but it's left behind by the 400+ at the same SPL. It's difficult to explain something that I can only feel and don't understand the physics of properly :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 On the subject/description of the heft/punch etc being discussed; Dave Funk (designer of Thunderfunk amps [among others]) described it as some amps throw doughnuts whereas others cannonballs... or words to that affect! [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1400309777' post='2452733'] On the subject/description of the heft/punch etc being discussed; Dave Funk (designer of Thunderfunk amps [among others]) described it as some amps throw doughnuts whereas others cannonballs... or words to that affect! [size=4] [/size] [/quote] Yeah - that sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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