This could kick off an "interesting" debate

[xgsjx]

Many bassists consider many of todays great players as solo players, forgetting that many of them are actually in bands.

Victor Wooten is an excellent player in The Flecktones.
John Davis is in Nerve (& so was Janek Gwizdala).
Pino Palladino still plays some awesome grooves (as he has for many yoks now).

I think there's many awesome bassists from this decade that deliver some class lines & can play to a high standard.
There's also a lot of pants root note plodders, just like there has been since the bass was invented.

[discreet]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1385424105' post='2288248']
Pino Palladino still plays some awesome grooves (as he has for many yoks now).
[/quote]

Is a 'yok' a measure of time, or a word Pino uses to describe his target audience?
...I'll get me cot.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1385421409' post='2288200']
But music today is just noise!

FACT!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RO47HZ14nc[/media]
[/quote]

That's some good noise. Try these out for size...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL8xYvKwzNA

[xgsjx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1385424229' post='2288251']
Is a 'yok' a measure of time, or a word Pino uses to describe his target audience?
...I'll get me cot.
[/quote]

Got me wondering what Pino's 'yok' is now!

[SpaceChick]

[quote name='cytania' timestamp='1385418995' post='2288155']
I blame the 90s. Oasis and Blur submerged bass deep in the mix. This may be influenced by having to learn Cigarettes and Alcohol and Parklife for my band . Neither very inspiring for bass but I serve the song...
[/quote]

Poor Alex James of Blur, his requirement to do dull basslines must have driven him to cheese! He's a hero of mine though..... Plays bass, lives on a farm, makes cheese! I talked to him once when I was helping on a chicken stand in a agriculture show. Top bloke he was too!

[cytania]

Ah yes, I wouldn't mind Alex James' rock'n'rural lifestyle :-)

[cytania]

Oasis's dirty little secret: Most recorded Oasis baselines were laid down by Noel Gallagher no matter who plays them live. Obviously not I'm the same league as David Gilmour doing Pink Floyd's classic baselines, more like Steve Jones rerecording Matlock's lines for the Pistols...

[Conan]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1385409295' post='2287976']
....bedroom bassists who squeeze their assets into skimpy tops whilst pressing them squidgingly against their basses for all to see on youtube
[/quote]

Damn. I thought I'd deleted that one.

[Phil Starr]

Now as an incredibly ancient person who actually remembers the whole of pop music from the early days of Rock'n Roll and who plays predominately stuff from the last 10 years with his bands I'll stick my neck out and say [size=4][b][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]plus[/b][/font][/color][/b][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif] ça [/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]change[/b][/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif], [/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]plus[/b][/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif] c'est la même chose (“the more it [/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]changes[/b][/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif], the more it's the same thing”)[/font][/color][/size]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]As a teenager in the sixties it is easy to look back on them as a golden age with so many iconic songs, look back at the charts though and it looks awful. You find the iconic songs barely scratched the charts and the sixties equivalents of Simon Cowell dominated what was broadcast. It's pretty much the same, old blokes like me who used to get their music by sharing with mates at school now only listen to the radio, and radio 4 most of the time too, we only get to hear the mainstream stuff. (unless you are lucky enough to have a music obsessed daughter). You can't kill creativity and young people are just as driven and imaginative as they ever were, but the good stuff only rarely becomes mainstream so my generation don't get to hear it so much[/font][/color]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]T[/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]here's a slight grain of truth though. A lot of Indy uses a fairly steady eight beat root pump as part of the overall sound, just as Rock'n'Roll used a lot of major triads and pentatonics, and bands at the beginnings of their careers often write simple I,IV,V songs moving on to better things as they mature as musicians. I don't think many bands get the chance to mature nowadays.[/font][/color]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]I've often thought it would be fun to put up an old and good bass player and challenge someone to come up with a good modern player. I'm sure I'd learn something.[/font][/color]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]Have some Martin Turner [/font][/color][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia73dAETiGk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia73dAETiGk[/url] nice tone, check out Argus by Wishbone Ash for more.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1385455798' post='2288357']
[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]As a teenager in the sixties it is easy to look back on them as a golden age with so many iconic songs, look back at the charts though and it looks awful.[/font][/color]
[/quote]
I've just had a random look at the charts in the 60s.

Here are a few of the records that were in the charts in one week on 1965:

Ticket To Ride - The Beatles
Here Comes The Night - Them
For Your Love - That Yadbirds
The Last Time - The Rolling Stones
Times They Are A Changin' - Bob Dylan
Nowhere To Run - Martha Reeves & The Vandellas
Stop! In The Name Of Love - The Supremes
Bring It On Home To Me - The Animals

It doesn't look awful to me and i reckon that there are a definitely a few iconic songs there. It was certainly a golden age of music for me.

[barkin]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1385407973' post='2287950']
...there were comparatively few mental slippers?

Discuss

slappers... not into slippers...
[/quote]

Nowt wrong with a few mental slappers - brightened up many a dull night at The Rat & Parrot...

[cytania]

Ah the Mental Slippers... Fine psych band, didn't they support the Thirteenth Floor Elevators ;-)

[jmchich]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1385455798' post='2288357']
Now as an incredibly ancient person who actually remembers the whole of pop music from the early days of Rock'n Roll and who plays predominately stuff from the last 10 years with his bands I'll stick my neck out and say [size=4][b][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]plus[/b][/font][/color][/b][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif] ça [/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]change[/b][/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif], [/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]plus[/b][/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif] c'est la même chose (“the more it [/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif][b]changes[/b][/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif], the more it's the same thing”)[/font][/color][/size]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]As a teenager in the sixties it is easy to look back on them as a golden age with so many iconic songs, look back at the charts though and it looks awful. You find the iconic songs barely scratched the charts and the sixties equivalents of Simon Cowell dominated what was broadcast. It's pretty much the same, old blokes like me who used to get their music by sharing with mates at school now only listen to the radio, and radio 4 most of the time too, we only get to hear the mainstream stuff. (unless you are lucky enough to have a music obsessed daughter). You can't kill creativity and young people are just as driven and imaginative as they ever were, but the good stuff only rarely becomes mainstream so my generation don't get to hear it so much[/font][/color]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]T[/font][/color][color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]here's a slight grain of truth though. A lot of Indy uses a fairly steady eight beat root pump as part of the overall sound, just as Rock'n'Roll used a lot of major triads and pentatonics, and bands at the beginnings of their careers often write simple I,IV,V songs moving on to better things as they mature as musicians. I don't think many bands get the chance to mature nowadays.[/font][/color]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]I've often thought it would be fun to put up an old and good bass player and challenge someone to come up with a good modern player. I'm sure I'd learn something.[/font][/color]

[color=#444444][font=arial, sans-serif]Have some Martin Turner [/font][/color]nice tone, check out Argus by Wishbone Ash for more.
[/quote]

While not in the same style, this is some incredible bass playing, and one of my favourite songs. Heavy yet melodic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3B7yf6c3mY

Oh, and Wishbone Ash are still pretty cool

[Kiwi]

I saw a TV programme a while that that lamented the demise of guitar solos in pop songs over the last 20 years and credited John Mayer as making solos cool again. I can see parallels with the OP...only bass playing hasn't become cool again...yet.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1385462020' post='2288452']
I've just had a random look at the charts in the 60s.

Here are a few of the records that were in the charts in one week on 1965:

Ticket To Ride - The Beatles
Here Comes The Night - Them
For Your Love - That Yadbirds
The Last Time - The Rolling Stones
Times They Are A Changin' - Bob Dylan
Nowhere To Run - Martha Reeves & The Vandellas
Stop! In The Name Of Love - The Supremes
Bring It On Home To Me - The Animals

It doesn't look awful to me and i reckon that there are a definitely a few iconic songs there. It was certainly a golden age of music for me.
[/quote]

Of course there were some great songs but if you listened to the mainstream radio you wouldn't have heard much of these, No Radio One in those days so you'd have to wait till Sunday to hear most of these songs. This is the charts from my birthday week in 1965. A few great songs but an awful lot of potboilers too. I suspect if you look back at the 00's in fifty years time it'll look like a golden age too. My point is not that it was anything but a privilege to be listening to music in the sixties but that it is a privilege to listen to great music now.


[b] THE LAST TIME[/b]

[b] ROLLING STONES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 2 1

[b] IT'S NOT UNUSUAL[/b]

[b] TOM JONES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 3 3

[b] SILHOUETTES[/b]

[b] HERMAN'S HERMITS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 4 2

[b] I'LL NEVER FIND ANOTHER YOU[/b]

[b] SEEKERS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 5 7

[b] COME AND STAY WITH ME[/b]

[b] MARIANNE FAITHFULL[/b]
6 13

[b] GOODBYE MY LOVE[/b]

[b] SEARCHERS[/b]
7 9

[b] I MUST BE SEEING THINGS[/b]

[b] GENE PITNEY[/b]
8 4

[b] I'LL STOP AT NOTHING[/b]

[b] SANDIE SHAW[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 9 10

[b] YES I WILL[/b]

[b] HOLLIES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 10 5

[b] THE GAME OF LOVE[/b]

[b] WAYNE FONTANA AND THE MINDBENDERS[/b]
11 16

[b] I APOLOGISE[/b]

[b] P J PROBY[/b]
12 8

[b] DON'T LET ME BE MISUNDERSTOOD[/b]

[b] ANIMALS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 13 19

[b] HONEY I NEED[/b]

[b] PRETTY THINGS[/b]
14 14

[b] GOODNIGHT[/b]

[b] ROY ORBISON[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 15 12

[b] THE SPECIAL YEARS[/b]

[b] VAL DOONICAN[/b]
16 17

[b] IT HURTS SO MUCH (TO SEE YOU GO)[/b]

[b] JIM REEVES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 17 11

[b] FUNNY HOW LOVE CAN BE[/b]

[b] IVY LEAGUE[/b]
18 27

[b] CONCRETE AND CLAY[/b]

[b] UNIT FOUR PLUS TWO[/b]
19 32

[b] DO THE CLAM[/b]

[b] ELVIS PRESLEY[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 20 18

[b] MARY ANNE[/b]

[b] SHADOWS[/b]
21 30

[b] I KNOW A PLACE[/b]

[b] PETULA CLARK[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 22 24

[b] IN THE MEANTIME[/b]

[b] GEORGIE FAME AND THE BLUE FLAMES[/b]
23 26

[b] I CAN'T EXPLAIN[/b]

[b] WHO[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 24 23

[b] A WINDMILL IN OLD AMSTERDAM[/b]

[b] RONNIE HILTON[/b]
25 15

[b] TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOU[/b]

[b] KINKS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 26 38

[b] THE MINUTE YOU'RE GONE[/b]

[b] CLIFF RICHARD[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 27 25

[b] THE ''IN'' CROWD[/b]

[b] DOBIE GRAY[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 28 21

[b] GOLDEN LIGHTS[/b]

[b] TWINKLE[/b]
29 20

[b] KEEP SEARCHIN' (WE'LL FOLLOW THE SUN)[/b]

[b] DEL SHANNON[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 30 NEW

[b] REELIN' AND ROCKIN'[/b]

[b] DAVE CLARK FIVE[/b]
31 NEW

[b] YOU'RE BREAKIN' MY HEART[/b]

[b] KEELY SMITH[/b]
32 NEW

[b] FOR YOUR LOVE[/b]

[b] YARDBIRDS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 33 37

[b] I DON'T WANT TO GO ON WITHOUT YOU[/b]

[b] MOODY BLUES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 34 31

[b] CAN'T YOU HEAR MY HEARTBEAT[/b]

[b] GOLDIE AND THE GINGERBREADS[/b]
35 NEW

[b] KING OF THE ROAD[/b]

[b] ROGER MILLER[/b]
36 39

[b] I BELONG[/b]

[b] KATHY KIRBY[/b]
37 22

[b] YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVIN' FEELIN'[/b]

[b] RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS[/b]
38 RE

[b] I'M LOST WITHOUT YOU[/b]

[b] BILLY FURY[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 39 NEW

[b] HEY, GOOD LOOKIN'[/b]

[b] BO DIDDLEY[/b]
40 NEW

[b] STRANGER IN TOWN[/b]

[b] DEL SHANNON[/b]

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='jmchich' timestamp='1385467449' post='2288534']
While not in the same style, this is some incredible bass playing, and one of my favourite songs. Heavy yet melodic.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3B7yf6c3mY[/media]

Oh, and Wishbone Ash are still pretty cool
[/quote]

Love it

[Dropzone]

Personally I think Mark King has a lot to do with this as he was the first really famous Mainstream (not counting Floyd or Lizzie as not mainsteam) who got very famous as a bass player indeed!!!

[discreet]

[quote name='cytania' timestamp='1385450681' post='2288313']
Ah yes, I wouldn't mind Alex James' rock'n'rural lifestyle :-)
[/quote]

Live fast, die young, make some cheese.

[JamesBass]

[quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1385473080' post='2288604']
Personally I think Mark King has a lot to do with this as he was the first really famous Mainstream (not counting Floyd or Lizzie as not mainsteam) who got very famous as a bass player indeed!!!
[/quote]
What about John Entwistle? He was damn famous as a bass player, and at the height of the Who's dominance, was mainstream?

But yes, Mark King has a LOT to answer for!

In reply to the OP. I personally see that the bass players of the past were innovators, the bass as new, nothing was written for how and what it should play, only that it was a lower octave than a guitar. There's nothing that says a guitar can't be used as the rhythm instrument as opposed to the bass. It just works out that we bass players are more limited than those guitarists and people like melodies to be more mid-top than low-mid. However modern music has taken a path that has led it hand in hand with the technological advances that render us defunct at times, music like DubStep and even some POP charty music.

However POP charty music hasn't changed, it's all about the vocals and the vocal melody. When people began to highlight this everything else in the mix was pushed back, to allow the vocals and the vocal melody to shine through, there are very few songs where people will hum the bass line or the guitar riff, unless it is following the vocal melody. The vocal melody is what sticks, the average commuter who listens to radio one in the car doesn't try to pick out the bass riff, only music buffs do, and music buffs don't tend to listen to Radio 1, well not the ones I know anyway! This has resulted in bass players in mainstream music, which is different to what used to be mainstream, a la rock'n'roll, learning and focusing on the basics as that's what is your bread and butter session, root notes and simplistic playing earns you money in mainstream music, it used to be different and those virtuoso players who would have been perfect session players during rocks formative years have become obscure bedroom slap monsters in an attempt to stand out and show off.

The whole issue is very contentious and difficult to pin down, there are many, many variables in a debate such as this.

[Grangur]

Time is a great filter that makes the cream come to the top and the rest get forgotten.

Don't forget there's loads of bass players of this century who you've got to know though Youtube and other new media paths who would never have come to your attention without the internet. Victor Wooten pottentialy being one example as he's not in the UK charts too often, so the likes of VW may never have appeared on your radar if he were born 30 years earlier.

I recon if you ignore all the Youtube warriors and only talk about big-name bass icons, I challenge you to come up with a list of 10 bass players who APPEARED in the last 10 years who are pushing the boundaries of bass playing and you recon will still be at the fore in 20 years time.

Go on, list names and say WHY you recon they're inovators pushing the boundaries.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1385469413' post='2288559']
....only bass playing hasn't become cool again....
[/quote]

Bass has always been cool.

It's our secret. I’d prefer if it was kept that way.

[jmchich]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1385474724' post='2288641']
Bass has always been cool.

It's our secret. I’d prefer if it was kept that way.
[/quote]

Who wants to be "cool" anyway? Personally I'd rather have fun.

[CamdenRob]

I am definitely not cool... I've also never been described as hot...

Guess people would regard me as lukewarm... or perhaps tepid...

Edited November 26, 2013 by CamdenRob

[jmchich]

"Hand-hot"? Oo-err missus...

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1385474512' post='2288638']
I recon if you ignore all the Youtube warriors and only talk about big-name bass icons, I challenge you to come up with a list of 10 bass players who APPEARED in the last 10 years who are pushing the boundaries of bass playing and you recon will still be at the fore in 20 years time.

Go on, list names and say WHY you recon they're inovators pushing the boundaries.
[/quote]

Fair point, I can't! I could name several great bands/artists who cropped up in the last decade, but no really stellar bassists spring to mind in the same time. (Edit: I make no claim to be an expert on modern music, and would be more than happy to be proven wrong!)

Is it our own fault in some way? For all the jokes we share on here about being the one who gets ignored, or the being the geek of the band, have we developed a collective sense of apathy? Have too many of us "learnt our place" and resigned to playing conservatively? How many of us would aspire to appear on such a list?

Edited November 26, 2013 by EliasMooseblaster