steve-soar Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_ywkpVJ624"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_ywkpVJ624[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360192485' post='1966659'] Amazing [/quote] It is. But why is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1360192697' post='1966662'] It is. But why is it? [/quote] Because he isn't lying, because he, in an honest way developed an own voice to sing to whoever with the capability to appreciate it. In his own words primarily to God. I feel that greatness and feel amazement. Not entertainment. Admiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengreen49 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Is there a clicky link please? Reading on a sh*tty kindle and it doesn't do the embedding thing. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Beautiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360193257' post='1966675'] Because he isn't lying, because he, in an honest way developed an own voice to sing to whoever with the capability to appreciate it. In his own words primarily to God. I feel that greatness and feel amazement. [b]Not entertainment.[/b] Admiration. [/quote] I was thoroughly entertained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360194694' post='1966700'] I was thoroughly entertained. [/quote] That's a pretty shallow statement but hey, whatever makes you happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360217997' post='1966768'] That's a pretty shallow statement but hey, whatever makes you happy. [/quote] Oh good, more of this. Art and entertainment are ENTIRELY subjective terms. Absolutely no one is ever going to be right or wrong here. You have views you want to share, which is great, being exposed to different viewpoints is one of the great joys of life, it's how we change and grow as people. Trading snippy remarks back and forth isn't changing or growing anyone. Discuss things like mature intelligent people or not at all. I for one, am sick of this playground bulls**t. Edited February 7, 2013 by bobbass4k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360217997' post='1966768'] That's a pretty shallow statement but hey, whatever makes you happy. [/quote] You're a gem, aren't you! Bobbass4k is of course bang on the money here, this kind of dynamic cannot go on forever and if you're unable to describe Coltrane as 'entertaining' it's most likely because you're being obtuse for the sake of it. Let previous arguments go and enjoy the music, it's far easier than trying to make some kind of protracted two-day long point about why we should or shouldn't be entertained by the music we love. Coltrane's a master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1360219994' post='1966777'] You're a gem, aren't you! Bobbass4k is of course bang on the money here, this kind of dynamic cannot go on forever and if you're unable to describe Coltrane as 'entertaining' it's most likely because you're being obtuse for the sake of it. Let previous arguments go and enjoy the music, it's far easier than trying to make some kind of protracted two-day long point about why we should or shouldn't be entertained by the music we love. Coltrane's a master. [/quote] Clowns entertain me. Pole dancers entertain some. Even magicians are supposed to entertain people. Coltrane impresses me. You need to learn the real meaning of words...entertainment is shallow and fugitive, to me entertainment has to do with having fun. It has to do with putting up a show. It's doesn't amaze for what it is, it wants to amaze because its interested in something the audience has to give. Entertainment doesn't give love freely, it's conditional. Am I really that wrong? Edited February 7, 2013 by Antiloco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360220659' post='1966780'] Clowns entertain me. Pole dancers entertain some. Even magicians are supposed to entertain people. Coltrane impresses me. You need to learn the real meaning of words...entertainment is shallow and fugitive, to me entertainment has to do with having fun. It has to do with putting up a show. It's doesn't amaze for what it is, it wants to amaze because its interested in something the audience has to give. Entertainment doesn't give love freely, it's conditional. Am I really that wrong? [/quote] Just can't give it a rest can you! By the way, on your Yamaha for sale, you state it is the best bass on here. I asked you why. You ignored my question. So one can only assume it is another piece of your arrogant, "I am right, you are mainly inferior to me" attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360220659' post='1966780] Am I really that wrong? [/quote] No, because NO ONE IS WRONG OR RIGHT on this entirely SUBJECTIVE issue. Phrases like: [quote]You need to learn the real meaning of words[/quote] Give the unmistakeable impression that you think your definitions are the absolutely correct ones. I, and most of the people here are more than happy to discuss this point with you, exchange ideas and compare views. But you have to enter such a discussion with your views malleable, or at least accepting of the validity of other views. There is no one true definition of art and entertainment. I listen to a lot of music that most musicians would dismiss as random noise, but I consider it art. I consider many video games to be works of art, other people consider them to be a vacuous medium devoid of any artistry whatsoever. Neither of us is wrong, my hope is that I can put forth a well reasoned argument for why I consider video games to be art that makes others re-evaluate their views. So if you're willing to discuss the topic, put forth your views in a coherent, logical, mature way, and consider the views and rebuttals of others, with an overriding principle of respect maturity, then welcome, you'll love it here. But if you're going to continue slinging arrogant, snide and elitist jibes around the place then you'll probably find it very frustrating here. Not least because I'll probably feel compelled to repeat this same long-winded speech every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1360221318' post='1966787'] Just can't give it a rest can you! By the way, on your Yamaha for sale, you state it is the best bass on here. I asked you why. You ignored my question. So one can only assume it is another piece of your arrogant, "I am right, you are mainly inferior to me" attitude. [/quote] Please take your hatred somewhere else, we're trying to have a conversation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1360221819' post='1966789'] No, because NO ONE IS WRONG OR RIGHT on this entirely SUBJECTIVE issue. Phrases like: Give the unmistakeable impression that you think your definitions are the absolutely correct ones. I, and most of the people here are more than happy to discuss this point with you, exchange ideas and compare views. But you have to enter such a discussion with your views malleable, or at least accepting of the validity of other views. There is no one true definition of art and entertainment. I listen to a lot of music that most musicians would dismiss as random noise, but I consider it art. I consider many video games to be works of art, other people consider them to be a vacuous medium devoid of any artistry whatsoever. Neither of us is wrong, my hope is that I can put forth a well reasoned argument for why I consider video games to be art that makes others re-evaluate their views. So if you're willing to discuss the topic, put forth your views in a coherent, logical, mature way, and consider the views and rebuttals of others, with an overriding principle of respect maturity, then welcome, you'll love it here. But if you're going to continue slinging arrogant, snide and elitist jibes around the place then you'll probably find it very frustrating here. Not least because I'll probably feel compelled to repeat this same long-winded speech every time. [/quote] What you say sounds pretty fair except for the simple fact that the meaning of words is not subjective. "Entertainment is something that holds the attention and interest of an audience, or gives pleasure and delight. It can be an idea or a task, but is more likely to be one of the activities or events that have developed over thousands of years specifically for the purpose of keeping an audience's attention." -Wiki So you should ask yourself: How pure is something that's made with the sole purpose of satisfying an audience? Don't play the arrogance card on me, it's getting pretty old and tired by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Don't feed the troll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1360222572' post='1966797'] Don't feed the troll... [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360221860' post='1966790'] Please take your hatred somewhere else, we're trying to have a conversation here. [/quote] Not hatred, I would have to care in some way to hate you. Sadly you come across as somewhat blinkered. For the third time of asking, why is your Yamaha bass the best on here? Sorry WOT. saw his wonderful diatribe against you the other day. I just want an answer as to why his Yamaha is the best bass on here. Edited February 7, 2013 by karlfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judo Chop Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I think everybody should just stop rising to him, he'll soon get bored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360222270' post='1966794'] What you say sounds pretty fair except for the simple fact that the meaning of words is not subjective. "Entertainment is something that holds the attention and interest of an audience, or gives pleasure and delight. It can be an idea or a task, but is more likely to be one of the activities or events that have developed over thousands of years specifically for the purpose of keeping an audience's attention." -Wiki [/quote] First of all, I don't fully agree with that definition,and the fact I can disagree with it kind of proves it's subjectivity. Secondly, if Wikipedia is the arbiter of all absolute truth in the Universe then we are all in very deep trouble. Wiktionary has a similar definition, and cites a few examples, including opera. But that definition does not exclude art from being entertainment. I think the crux of the conflict is illustrated by your comment: [quote]So you should ask yourself: How pure is something that's made with the sole purpose of satisfying an audience?[/quote] Most entertainment is not made solely to satisfy an audience. In fact in my opinion, entertainment that is made specifically to pander to certain audiences is almost exclusively bad, but that doesn't rob it of it's artistic nature. Art can be bad. Art can be made with a pure artistic intent, and then experienced by others without stripping it of it's artistic soul. Indeed, music is usually made to be heard. I will almost guarantee that John Coltrane wrote Naima with the knowledge that he would perform it live, for an audience, and record it, to be heard by an audience. All of the films and video games and albums that I love and consider to be great works of art, were made to be experienced by an audience. My favourite album of all time and one of the greatest works of art I have ever experienced was recorded in a studio, using money from a record company, so that record company could sell it to people. And if you consider any album to be a great work of art, then the same is true to you. A work of art being available to an audience does not mean that it was specifically created for that audience. Do you consider your YouTube videos to be art or entertainment? You did record them specifically to be seen by an audience, after all. Edited February 7, 2013 by bobbass4k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1360222572' post='1966797'] Don't feed the troll... [/quote] Apologies, should have leant my lesson the first time. Isn't there a sub-forum we can create for the socially inept? Great clip Steve, been listening to loads of Coltrane of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360222270' post='1966794'] What you say sounds pretty fair except for the simple fact that the meaning of words is not subjective. "Entertainment is something that holds the attention and interest of an audience, or gives pleasure and delight. It can be an idea or a task, but is more likely to be one of the activities or events that have developed over thousands of years specifically for the purpose of keeping an audience's attention." -Wiki So you should ask yourself: How pure is something that's made with the sole purpose of satisfying an audience? Don't play the arrogance card on me, it's getting pretty old and tired by now. [/quote] I can get where you're coming from, but look at the word "entertain". In part, it means "to provide someone with enjoyment". That someone could be you, me or the dog, it makes no odds. If art isn't made for someone to enjoy, then what is it's purpose? The opposite of entertain is "to bore" or "reject". If art isn't there to entertain, is it there to bore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360220659' post='1966780'] Clowns entertain me. Pole dancers entertain some. Even magicians are supposed to entertain people. Coltrane impresses me. You need to learn the real meaning of words...entertainment is shallow and fugitive, to me entertainment has to do with having fun. It has to do with putting up a show. It's doesn't amaze for what it is, it wants to amaze because its interested in something the audience has to give. Entertainment doesn't give love freely, it's conditional. Am I really that wrong? [/quote] Despite your aggressive and uncompromising defence of your point of view, I can understand your train of thought and where it originates from. I think you believe that people who reach very high levels of craft in their chosen artistic field are unappreciated by the majority of people and this greatly disappoints you. You feel that highly skilled musicians transcend mere 'entertainment' and progress to 'art'. Maybe you feel that lesser skilled musicians resort to, or are only capable of, 'entertainment'. You perhaps feel that the lines between art and entertainment are blurred and that people are unable to decide for themselves what is art and what is design, very disappointing that people are so uneducated and unable to appreciate it. However, although some chart music could be considered to be crafted for entertainment purposes, many successful pop and rock bands really do FEEL their music and communicate through it, it is 'art'. Music serves many purposes, and all skill levels can create music that is art, and likewise entertainment. Playing your instrument to a very high level of skill does not necessarily mean that the player is able to create art, that comes from the human being behind the instrument. The skills and the equipment are simply the tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360225861' post='1966867'] Despite your aggressive and uncompromising defence of your point of view, I can understand your train of thought and where it originates from. I think you believe that people who reach very high levels of craft in their chosen artistic field are unappreciated by the majority of people and this greatly disappoints you. You feel that highly skilled musicians transcend mere 'entertainment' and progress to 'art'. Maybe you feel that lesser skilled musicians resort to, or are only capable of, 'entertainment'. You perhaps feel that the lines between art and entertainment are blurred and that people are unable to decide for themselves what is art and what is design, very disappointing that people are so uneducated and unable to appreciate it. However, although some chart music could be considered to be crafted for entertainment purposes, many successful pop and rock bands really do FEEL their music and communicate through it, it is 'art'. Music serves many purposes, and all skill levels can create music that is art, and likewise entertainment. Playing your instrument to a very high level of skill does not necessarily mean that the player is able to create art, that comes from the human being behind the instrument. The skills and the equipment are simply the tools. [/quote] Totally agreed, thank you. At last someone with brains thats doesnt need to rely on the "arrogance" or "troll" card to defend their insecurities and lack of understanding. Shame on the rest of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 failing to see how i can go on stage tonight and play conditionally? i go on stage i play how well or how bad is up to me but i cant place conditions on the audience??? [size=3][i](older and even more confused from Kent)[/i][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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