Too Much Power?

[lastnotleast]

I play through an Acoustic B200H with (2) B115's. I know Acoustic is not available in the UK since Guitar Center acquired it but bear with me.
I would like to purchase a backup amp and, if it has more wattage and/or sounds better, move it to the primary role.

I can pick up a used Behringer Ultrabass BX450H for $200.00 U.S. or less. I have two questions;

1. Is the Behringer poor quality?
2. Is 450W @ 4 Ohms too much for my B115's which are rated 250W @ 8Ohms?

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration

[bremen]

[quote name='lastnotleast' timestamp='1358511812' post='1940512']
I play through an Acoustic B200H with (2) B115's. I know Acoustic is not available in the UK since Guitar Center acquired it but bear with me.
I would like to purchase a backup amp and, if it has more wattage and/or sounds better, move it to the primary role.

I can pick up a used Behringer Ultrabass BX450H for $200.00 U.S. or less. I have two questions;

1. Is the Behringer poor quality?
2. Is 450W @ 4 Ohms too much for my B115's which are rated 250W @ 8Ohms?

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration
[/quote]

1. Cheaply built but probably OK
2. You should be OK. Turn down if it farts out.

[danthevan]

Don't know your model but I've got the BXL3000 which i'm quite impressed with. Damn heavy though.
Mainly use it for rehearsal and smaller gigs.

[JTUK]

I'd say 250w was low for a 115, but that may be a good thing as it could be conservative.

I am not a fan of pushing cabs and then backing off... but you should have just enough in hand
with 450 in 4 with 500w rated cabs.

How well they respond to 'abuse' you will have to gauge carefully under good hearing conditions and then let that be your 'level'
I am advocating caution and maybe well be OTT here...but until you know..you don't know..?

As for the amp.. agree, cheaply built but may be ok. There is plenty of the stuff around and they appear to share components with other kit that
gets less of a bad rap...

[peteb]

I would be tempted to keep looking for something a bit better quality than the Behringer.....

[xgsjx]

I agree. Behringer are hit & miss, so try one out first.

Ignore the wattage, go with your ears. If it sounds bad, turn down.

[chris_b]

Why not get another, more powerful, Acoustic amp?

[Lozz196]

450 watts into two 250 watt 8ohm cabs should be fine. I would doubt you`ll have the amp running anywhere near full, so unless really overloading on lows, you should be more than fine.

Behringer - well not many seem to rate them, but a mate of mine uses an Ultrabass through one of their matching 410s, and his sound is awesome. He`s one of the "one bass, one amp, one cab" type, and gigs regularly, and since he`s had the amp - about 3 years now - I`ve never seen him not using it, so it must be reliable.

[Conan]

What's the problem with the Acoustic?

Behringer studio gear and stompboxes are actually very good for the (very low) price, but the amps do not get such a good write-up. Not sure why, but maybe there is a lot more inherent snobbery when it comes to amps? I would have though that the Acoustic was a much higher quality amp then anything made by Behringer, but that's not to say that it will sound better to your ears!

And wattage by itself is no guide to how an amp will sound...

Edited January 18, 2013 by Conan

[Mr. Foxen]

New acoustic, aside from teh guy who licenced it for really high end repros of the old ones, are a cheap product and money was spend of buying the name to stick on them. Behringer are probably as cheap, but spent the money on the product instead of the name.

[Musky]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Behringer had no more power on tap than the Acoustic. AFAIR Behringer use magic pixie watts to describe the power output on their amps, so I'd imagine it's output RMS is about half of what Behringer claims.

[lastnotleast]

Thanks, good feedback and I appreciate it. Primarily, I just "need" a backup amp as we travel far from home and would not want to be caught with me knickers down.
As long as I'm getting. I may as well get an amp with more head room which translates watts - or does it?
Pricing here seems to be about a dollar per watt so I may just hold out for an Acoustic B300H.

I like the sound I get with my Acoustic rig, Sonic Maximizer and Yami BBN5. Lots of sustain, etc., etc.
I cut my teeth playing bass in the left hand on a Wurli through a Fender Showman and this kit sounds familiar.
The singer sometimes gets after me to turn up but he is 33 and I am 61 which may explain that IDK.

You all have been very helpful as usual. Any more ides?

Edited January 18, 2013 by lastnotleast

[mart]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1358543180' post='1941305']
I wouldn't be surprised if the Behringer had no more power on tap than the Acoustic. AFAIR Behringer use magic pixie watts to describe the power output on their amps, so I'd imagine it's output RMS is about half of what Behringer claims.
[/quote]
This was more or less demonstrated by their "6000W" amp which, if it actually produced that power running from UK mains, would have to operate at 200% efficiency.

[chris_b]

[quote name='lastnotleast' timestamp='1358544366' post='1941323']
....Any more ides?....
[/quote]

I'd sell the lot and get a Thunderfunk TFB750 and 2 Bergantino 112 or 210 cabs.

You won't need backups with that rig.

[Phil Starr]

Having a back up amp is a great idea for any performing bassist though youcan always go through the PA so taking along a Sansamp or something similar would get you out of a hole.

It makes sense for a backup amp to be cheap and light so look for one of the newer switch mode amps like the Promethean. There are cheap clones/rebadged versions of this in europe so look for similar in the States.

Behringer is built to a budget, so less attention to detail and cheaper components but good design and value. Their PA amps are well respected though and seem fairly robust, I have two, never a problem. The amp part of the heads will be the same so as long as you don't get the last one made on a Fri I wouldn't worry.

If I wanted just a backup amp for less than $200 I'd probably buy a used Peavey. Do the job and bomb proof.

[lastnotleast]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358549447' post='1941403'] I'd sell the lot and get a Thunderfunk TFB750 and 2 Bergantino 112 or 210 cabs. You won't need backups with that rig.[/quote]

Looks awesome but apparently not available here?

[lastnotleast]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1358586551' post='1941648']
Having a back up amp is a great idea for any performing bassist though youcan always go through the PA so taking along a Sansamp or something similar would get you out of a hole.

It makes sense for a backup amp to be cheap and light so look for one of the newer switch mode amps like the Promethean. There are cheap clones/rebadged versions of this in europe so look for similar in the States.

Behringer is built to a budget, so less attention to detail and cheaper components but good design and value. Their PA amps are well respected though and seem fairly robust, I have two, never a problem. The amp part of the heads will be the same so as long as you don't get the last one made on a Fri I wouldn't worry.

If I wanted just a backup amp for less than $200 I'd probably buy a used Peavey. Do the job and bomb proof.
[/quote]

"Last one on Friday" hilarious. We play fairs & festivals in season so playing through the PA is no issue but, during the winter months, we play bars and such (paid dress rehearsal).
Our PA is barely adequate for vocals (IMO) so running the bass through it is not an option.

There is a Promethean (store demo) on ebay as we speak for $259.00 w/free shipping. What say ye all to Ibanez?

NVM, just realised it has no effects loop for my Sonic Maximizer. Not a big deal for a backup but not sure it's worth the sacrifice.

Edited January 19, 2013 by lastnotleast

[chris_b]

[quote name='lastnotleast' timestamp='1358592290' post='1941758']
....Looks awesome but apparently not available here?....
[/quote]

Sounds awesome too.

Thunderfunk amps are made near Cincinnati in Indiana (you have to buy direct) and Bergantino cabs are made near Boston in Maine (they have a dealership list on their website).

Or checkout the classifieds on Talkbass.

[lastnotleast]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358593011' post='1941791']
Sounds awesome too.

Thunderfunk amps are made near Cincinnati in Indiana (you have to buy direct) and Bergantino cabs are made near Boston in Maine (they have a dealership list on their website).

Or checkout the classifieds on Talkbass.
[/quote]

I grew up in Indiana, now live in Ohio and was just in Cincinnati on business - thanks

They are in Seymour which is where John Mellencamp is from.

Edited January 19, 2013 by lastnotleast

[pete.young]

Effects loops are normally connected in parallel with the clean signal, so you get a blend between the loop and the un-effected signal (and if the effect in the loop fails, you still get sound).

To maximise (no pun indended for once) the benefit of your Sonic Maximiser, which is really a serial device, you might want to make sure your effects loop is set to serial. I'm not sure from a quick scan of the manual for your amp whether the effects path is serial or parallel - might be worth a detailed read or a quick email to Acoustic.

[lefrash]

I had the behringer head for about a year. My previous amp broke, and whilst it was in getting fixed a had a load of gigs. I decided just to buy the behringer as a stop gap, then sell it on once I got my proper amp back. It sounded perfectly good, so I ended up using it in our practice unit. It then died on me - the power section had failed. When I took it in to fix the guy said it was not worth fixing, as the way its built meant that a massive section of the amp just had to be replaced, not just the bit that broke. I dont know how true this is, but it would really put me off buying another behringer head. I would say though that when it worked it was perfectly good so if you can get one super cheap then it might be ok as a back up.... saying that, there is so much choice out there for amps that I would still probably look elsewhere.

[lastnotleast]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1358595098' post='1941838']
Effects loops are normally connected in parallel with the clean signal, so you get a blend between the loop and the un-effected signal (and if the effect in the loop fails, you still get sound).

To maximise (no pun indended for once) the benefit of your Sonic Maximiser, which is really a serial device, you might want to make sure your effects loop is set to serial. I'm not sure from a quick scan of the manual for your amp whether the effects path is serial or parallel - might be worth a detailed read or a quick email to Acoustic.
[/quote]

Good point and you are right, the manual does not shed much light.
However, from a cursory research, I believe that parallel effects loops are relatively new and typically equipped with a "blend" control knob.

There is a noticeable difference between running the Sonic Maximiser through the effects loop rather than straight into the input.
Kind of makes sense to me but I'm not sure I could explain why.

Edited January 19, 2013 by lastnotleast

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1358595618' post='1941847']
When I took it in to fix the guy said it was not worth fixing, as the way its built meant that a massive section of the amp just had to be replaced, not just the bit that broke.
[/quote]

That makes it really easy to fix, as long as Behringer will supply you the part. I've not dealt with them directly, but heard they are OK with that. Ampeg are the same, except a total pain in the nuts to deal with.

[pete.young]

[quote name='lastnotleast' timestamp='1358605855' post='1942084']

However, from a cursory research, I believe that parallel effects loops are relatively new and typically equipped with a "blend" control knob.


[/quote]

My Markbass LMII must be getting on for 10 years old by now, and has a parallel loop with no blend control.

However it also has a jumper inside the case that allows it to be switched to serial.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1358634302' post='1942719']
My Markbass LMII must be getting on for 10 years old by now, and has a parallel loop with no blend control.

However it also has a jumper inside the case that allows it to be switched to serial.
[/quote]

I tried using the loop. Tried the different jumper settings & could hear the difference. Best thing for me is bass>pedals>amp & I only use the loop as a send to the mac for home recording (I have a mono jack to 1 side of a stereo minijack).