Age/Experience Issues

[Doddy]

My first thought is 'so what?'.
If you have the right attitude and your playing is up to scratch then you shouldn't have any
problems. When I was younger I had people pull their faces at gigs at first,but they soon
change their attitude when they find out that you can handle the gig.Likewise,in shops most
guys will be cool with you if you talk to them and show that you know what yo are talking about
and are friendly....and keep your ego in check.

Just out of interest,who did you play with at the Albert Hall?

[SteveK]

[quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1348369256' post='1812826']
Now this is by no means a rant, nor am I trying to incite any kind of hateful retorts. This is simply meant to be a discussion on an issue of ageism in correlation to the perception of musical experience.
[/quote]And if a boy band were auditioning for a bass player... assuming similar "musical experience" and ability, who do you suppose would be more likely to get the gig? You, at 19 years... or me, at 57? That's showbiz

Thankfully, the music world isn't just full of boy bands.

[jamesbass116]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348419591' post='1813412']
My first thought is 'so what?'.
If you have the right attitude and your playing is up to scratch then you shouldn't have any
problems. When I was younger I had people pull their faces at gigs at first,but they soon
change their attitude when they find out that you can handle the gig.Likewise,in shops most
guys will be cool with you if you talk to them and show that you know what yo are talking about
and are friendly....and keep your ego in check.

Just out of interest,who did you play with at the Albert Hall?
[/quote]

I just find it rude and obnoxious that people can turn their noses up at someone without even giving them a chance is all. The phrase never judge a book by its cover springs to mind. I get what you mean though completely. I'd never go out to prove a point that I'm not an idiot with no professionalism or manners, I just feel as if people automatically assume that's what I'm like!

Well I've played at the Albert Hall with various orchestras (County Youth Orchestra etc..) and through my local youth music organisation. I play French Horn as well so I've had the privilege of playing all over London in great venues. I've only ever played my bass at the Royal Albert Hall twice, which was a few years ago! They were basically variety concerts for charity organised with my local music organisation and various schools, theatre groups and dancers. I was part of a select few providing the music.

[jamesbass116]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1348420832' post='1813427']
And if a boy band were auditioning for a bass player... assuming similar "musical experience" and ability, who do you suppose would be more likely to get the gig? You, at 19 years... or me, at 57? That's showbiz

Thankfully, the music world isn't just full of boy bands.
[/quote]

Good point! There's a lot of the industry that really does rely on image as well. Which a fair few guitarists in my band have found out the hard way simply because they don't look the part or actually have been accused of looking 'old' which I found harsh.

You could always look into joining one of those man-bands!

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1348404290' post='1813164']
Like Lowdowner said, the quality of the experience matters more than quantity,[/quote]



Agreed!

[Doddy]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1348420832' post='1813427']
And if a boy band were auditioning for a bass player... assuming similar "musical experience" and ability, who do you suppose would be more likely to get the gig? You, at 19 years... or me, at 57? That's showbiz
[/quote]
Very true,
I was once talking to a player who has got a pretty high profile right now,and he was telling me about when he was MD for a
tour and the management said that he couldn't audition anyone over 25,and referred to him as the 'old man' despite only
being 30/31.

[daz]

Think yourself lucky!. I will be 50 next year and would love to have your 'problems' with people acting like arseoles towards me because they are jealous of a talented teenager

[lojo]

[quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1348369256' post='1812826']
I can guarantee there are a lot of people twice/three times my age with far less playing experience that will be given regular and friendly service in music shops, or treated with respect at a gig etc...
[/quote]

It's not about you and it's not confined to musicians, in life people have preconceptions, rightly or wrongly and you'll get treated wrongly as you see it, throughout your life by some of those you come across

An example

A guy I knew through work went off to buy a band new land rover after work one day, he'd thought about it for ages and done all his research

He went in his dirty clothes after a days work, when he test drove the car at the local dealer he felt that the salesman was not taking him seriously, so he didn't buy it even though he wanted it.

Next day he went to another dealer and brought the car outright without even asking for a test drive

We've all done it and had it done to us

Edited September 23, 2012 by lojo

[skankdelvar]

The people who are telling the OP (in a professional context) that he's too young are probably the same ones who are telling others that they're too old. Or too fat. Or too thin. Or too something. This sort of person always finds it easier to say 'No' than to say 'Yes', and we've all had to suffer them at some point, whatever our profession.

Others are just insecure and use snarkiness as a defence mechanism. They comment upon one's most obvious visible characteristic as a means to achieve a sort of fleeting dominance. I once worked for a completely pathetic wazzock who - if he could not think of anything relevant (which was most of the time) - would simply say "God, that's a dreadful tie you're wearing."

[Romberg Bevel]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1348402572' post='1813143']
How 'experienced' was Yahudi Mehenuin (or however it's spelt!) at 19? Could still blow the socks off you with his Beethoven's Violin Concerto!
[/quote]

Menuhin was very experienced at 19.

[SteveK]

[quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1348422126' post='1813441']
Good point! There's a lot of the industry that really does rely on image as well. Which a fair few guitarists in my band have found out the hard way simply because they don't look the part or actually have been accused of looking 'old' which I found harsh.

You could always look into joining one of those [b]M[/b]a[b]n[/b]n-bands!
[/quote]Fixed.

BTW I did... 26 years ago

Edited September 23, 2012 by SteveK

[lowdown]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1348427413' post='1813527']
Fixed.
[/quote]

Ha Ha, very good.

To the OP, I am not sure it is just an age thang. - The Music business is full of twonks who talk a lot and deliver very little,
the longer you are in it, the more you just laugh it off.

Garry

Edited September 23, 2012 by lowdown

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1348424632' post='1813475']
if he could not think of anything relevant (which was most of the time) - would simply say "God, that's a dreadful tie you're wearing."
[/quote]

Yeah, but in his defence you do own some dreadful ties skank.....

[cheddatom]

A lot of people think that age correlates to musical experience. Also, a lot of people think that how long you've been playing correlates to ability.

I've not had the ageism described in the OP, but I have had people be impressed just by the fact that i've been playing guitar for 20 years. In reality, I know people who've been playing for less than 5 years who are miles better than me. The amount of time you've been playing for has no correlation to your ability IMO.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1348498162' post='1814349']
Yeah, but in his defence you do own some dreadful ties skank..... [/quote]

True.

And thanks for reminding me - I'm supposed to be sending one to Gustoo as a sort of consolation for his Thomas Pink knock-off fiasco.

[Telebass]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1348394827' post='1812998']
As a gigging non youngster though , I get the other side of the coin. We've even been told that when we were seen earlier setting up gear that the punters thought we were the band's Dads !!
[/quote]

Yup, been there, been told that. In the last few weeks!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1348369256' post='1812826']
I've done a fair bit of music work in my 19 years on this earth... I've got function gigs up the wazoo and regular gigs with 3 bands including one with serious label interest. However, despite all this I've come across so much ignorance towards me from certain people simply because I'm a 'kid'. I could act as professionally and friendly as possible to someone yet still be treated like I'm trying to use my bass headstock as a pacifier. I don't and never will understand this mindset at all. I can guarantee there are a lot of people twice/three times my age with far less playing experience that will be given regular and friendly service in music shops, or treated with respect at a gig etc...

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's come across this in their lives. Has anyone ever experienced something similar? If so what was it? Or, if you've never been involved in something like this, how would you react if you had been?


Now this is by no means a rant, nor am I trying to incite any kind of hateful retorts. This is simply meant to be a discussion on an issue of ageism in correlation to the perception of musical experience.
[/quote]

I'm 31, but due to luck of the genes I look about 22 at the oldest. I tend to find I still get people talking down to me about bass and my career. In fact, I get it about what music I listen to, and my opinions as well.

Luckily, I just don't care anymore. I don't ever take how young I look for granted...ever. In fact, its a bloomin gift!

Sometimes, it is genuine advice and I always look upto those with more knowledge than me, but sometimes, its just someone on their high horse because they haven't got anything else to shout about.

Sounds like you are doing well for yourself, well done.

[WillEdwards]

I am the same age and I get that. People will assume that you have lack of experience and are not a good player. You just have to put it aside and get on with what you are there to do. Although at the same time you should be assertive because otherwise people won't take you seriously (but definitely don't be arrogant or pushy). The benefit of being young is that when you play well people are more impressed because they have a lower expectation of you in the first place.

[Fat Bob]

Many years ago a certain Mr Gary Tibbs played bass for Adam & The Ants aged 16....he then got the gig with Roxy Music (how different is that....) aged 17....in fact, I also think he did a stint with Bow Wow Wow ( look it up on google kids....).

Just a thought but maybe join an originals and not a cover band.....always worked for me....now I'm 46 and get told '...youre too old....what do you know...'

...as if playing for The Ants and Roxy wasn't enough....long live Norman Watt-Roy......

[Musicman20]

I agree with the originals band. The problem with our current music climate is that more and more bands are getting coverage, but hardly any of them are lasting past one decent debut. Thus, its getting harder and harder to keep up with new exciting bands.

The problem is, the older you get, the harder it is to keep up without checking the internet ALL the time. Hardly any people I work with like music the way I do; I must come across as totally obsessed! So, I can't get new music through word of mouth. Then you have a career kick in, and unless its music orientated, you have that to juggle as well.

Keep your hands in the original side of music and create as much as you can. Covers bands are fun but there is nothing like making your own music.

[LiamPodmore]

My band played a gig last year and were being heckled before we'd even played a note, by a few bands of older gentlemen/ladies (One of whom asked 'can i have a bit more low end in my monitor' which cracked us up). I just found it a bit amusing that the only bassist out of 4 bands to turn up with a proper bass head, speaker leads, and spares, despite all the others clearly having a lot more musical experience than me [Sarcasm intended].

I personally don't get what i like to refer to as the 'teenager treatment' because i look about 23/24 not 17, and the fact that i turn up and pull out a slightly vintage Fender probably helps a tad. I treat people like i want to be treated myself, so if they don't treat me the same, then f*ck 'em, not a problem for me.

Liam