play for free

[Earbrass]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1350042228' post='1833867']
I hope your boss doesn't use that line when your next months salary doesn't get paid into your bank account.
[/quote]

I wouldn't out it past them. But that's a job - I only do that for the money. Music I do for the love of it. That means I value it more, not less.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1350042289' post='1833869']
Just what I was thinking!
[/quote]

I actually thought it was a bit rude. He's only putting a point across. No need to mock him.

[SteveK]

Just skimmed through this thread.

Seems to me those pissed off with musicians playing for free have probably got a lot to learn about either: their craft, their instrument, performing or generally entertaining the paying public. I think of it as survival of the fittest, natural selection.

There are those that seem unable to get paying gigs, and there are those that appear to get reasonably well paid gigs. What do you suppose is the most likely difference between these bands?
If you can't get paid gigs, take a good hard look at yourself... be super critical! Put in the hours... UP YOUR GAME!
It's quite simple: Generally speaking, If you're good, and people want to come and see you, you'll get the paid gigs. If you're boring, doing the same ol' tosh (badly), then you won't!
As I said in another thread, you may need to start by doing a few gigs for nothing, or next to nothing, but eventually you'll build a following... if you're good enough!

Of course the above doesn't apply to those solely in it for fun... And why shouldn't you be(?)

[Earbrass]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1350042722' post='1833877']
I actually thought it was a bit rude. He's only putting a point across. No need to mock him.
[/quote]

But you don't think "If you play for free, it means you don't value yourself" is more than a little arrogant and patronising?

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1350042953' post='1833881']
But you don't think "If you play for free, it means you don't value yourself" is more than a little arrogant and patronising?
[/quote]

That's just his opinion. You can feel free to disagree, but when you start making rude statements, you lower the general tone and do yourself down.

Forums like this are fun when we have opposing views - but they become much less so when we are rude to each other ..... dontcha think?

Edited October 12, 2012 by The Dark Lord

[gjones]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1350042289' post='1833869']
Just what I was thinking!
[/quote]

I was trying to be as diplomatic as I could be. But what I really meant was that if you play for free (unless it's for charity) and the promoter/landlord thinks you are too crap to bother paying and you accept their judgement and play anyway. Then it must do very little for your self respect.

[thebrig]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1350043314' post='1833887']
I was trying to be as diplomatic as I could be. But what I really meant was that if you play for free (unless it's for charity) and the promoter/landlord thinks you are too crap to bother paying and you accept their judgement and play anyway. Then it must do very little for your self respect.
[/quote]
I really can see all sides of the argument, but what I am trying to say is, [u]I really love playing[/u], and if there was no payment, I would still do it because it's what I love most in life, apart from my family.

But hey! life would be boring if we all agreed.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1350043314' post='1833887']
I was trying to be as diplomatic as I could be. But what I really meant was that if you play for free (unless it's for charity) and the promoter/landlord thinks you are too crap to bother paying and you accept their judgement and play anyway. Then it must do very little for your self respect.
[/quote]

See, he's nice really.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1350043182' post='1833883']
That's just his opinion. You can feel free to disagree, but when you start making rude statements, you lower the general tone and do yourself down.
[/quote]

I find the suggestions that I should feel guilty for playing for free, or that playing for free means I don't value myself, both of which have been made in this thread, to be rude and patronising, so I don't think I started any downward trend in this thread, I have merely responded to being lectured to and insulted.

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1350043945' post='1833909']
See, he's nice really.
[/quote]

I'm sure we all are.....really.

[paul torch]

I find it a little depressing that some people can't accept that others choose to do something for love rather than financial gain. I had a choice when I left school as to whether I would make my living from music or design. I chose graphic design, it has kept me in steady employment for 20-odd years and has allowed me to indulge in my passion for music without any added pressures.

Horses for courses, there's room for everyone.

[redstriper]

I'll play for free whenever I want and I'll take the money too if it's available, because I love to play and my reward is not financial.
Music is art and a spiritual journey for me, not a business venture.
I've been doing this for 35 years and I've never met a musician motivated by money that I would want as a friend, let alone play with.

[JTUK]

When I hear the word 'free' in the context of a gig, I tend to think what is wrong with it/them..??

But, as I have said before in this thread, doesn't matter a jot what other people do with a gig and the
way they approach it is down to them.

[swanbrook]

[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1350044723' post='1833924']
I find it a little depressing that some people can't accept that others choose to do something for love rather than financial gain. I had a choice when I left school as to whether I would make my living from music or design. I chose graphic design, it has kept me in steady employment for 20-odd years and has allowed me to indulge in my passion for music without any added pressures.

Horses for courses, there's room for everyone.
[/quote]

As I have said over and over, you playing for free might prob won't affect me however it might other bands that play the same venues you do.

I picked music and I have been doing it for over 20 years, what if I did design for the love of it and went to your place of work and did it for free .

Do you really not see the point here after 13 pages ? The way I see it is, we all start somewhere and if your playing for free in a venue that's would normally pay bands then that is the same as me going into your office and working for free.

If your playing for free in a venue that only has smaller bands or might only afford a band on sat night but would love some music Friday and gives you a few free beers, food or a jolly good reach around then that's not hurting anybody.

[SteveK]

[quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350062409' post='1834248']
As I have said over and over, you playing for free might prob won't affect me however it might other bands that play the same venues you do.

I picked music and I have been doing it for over 20 years,[b] what if I did design for the love of it and went to your place of work and did it for free .[/b]

Do you really not see the point here after 13 pages ? The way I see it is, we all start somewhere and if your playing for free in a venue that's would normally pay bands then [b]that is the same as me going into your office and working for free.[/b]

If your playing for free in a venue that only has smaller bands or might only afford a band on sat night but would love some music Friday and gives you a few free beers, food or a jolly good reach around then that's not hurting anybody.
[/quote]If you were any good and clients liked your work, I bet you wouldn't do it for free for long Your analogy would work better if bands that play for free were playing to packed houses night after night... Not very likely... unless they're on some weird tax avoidance scheme.

[swanbrook]

How can you not see that it is the same thing ! No it won't be as good as some who does it full time as a career but it would piss you off to no end if someone did it to you. There is no difference and I really can't see how you can be so blinkered. Do you think that because my office is a pub it makes it ok ?
Nuff said from me on the matter, if you can't see it or won't see it then you are not likely to see it.
You wanna play for free do it in a pub that won't hurt other musicians.

[redstriper]

[quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350068847' post='1834337']
You wanna play for free do it in a pub that won't hurt other musicians.
[/quote]

Have you ever been hurt in this way, do you know of anyone who has?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350045242' post='1833934']
I'll play for free whenever I want and I'll take the money too if it's available, because I love to play and my reward is not financial.
Music is art and a spiritual journey for me, not a business venture.
I've been doing this for 35 years and I've never met a musician motivated by money that I would want as a friend, let alone play with.
[/quote]

Interesting point.

People seem fairly quick to criticise the 'business' side of the music business, so why complain about a bit of art for art's sake? I wonder if those against playing for free ever get out of bed without being paid?

[swanbrook]

And now the insults start again, enjoy your free gigs guys

[mushers]

[quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350072960' post='1834382']
And now the insults start again, enjoy your free gigs guys
[/quote]
enjoy earning 8k in one night

[flyfisher]

Well, it was intended as a joke, not an insult, hence the . Hey ho.

[swanbrook]

[quote name='mushers' timestamp='1350073292' post='1834389']

enjoy earning 8k in one night
[/quote]

Not sure but I think that's a dig at a post where I said I got 8k in bookings, from a pub gig. That's really not unusual the last wedding fair I did I took 7 bookings. Fairly normal.

If its not a dig at that then god knows what your on. But I am off to set up now.

[mushers]

[quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350073917' post='1834400']
Not sure but I think that's a dig at a post where I said I got 8k in bookings, from a pub gig. That's really not unusual the last wedding fair I did I took 7 bookings. Fairly normal.

If its not a dig at that then god knows what your on. But I am off to set up now.
[/quote]
as some have tried to make clear people play for different reasons some for fun some for reward its clear which you are and there is nothing wrong with that but there is also nothing wrong with being on the other side of the fence and choosing to play for free
i would love to make a living from music i tried may years ago it didnt go so well, however i am a much better musician now than i was back then while earning money at it so i do take offence at the peanuts jibes that have been banded about
but i guess there will be people who just get "totally pissed off" at people playing for free , but thats not my problem but it seems to be yours even though you like to hint at how well your doing from your music

[thebrig]

I left my function band just a couple of weeks after I secured a £2,000 gig for us, mainly because I did not enjoy what we were playing, and what we were doing to ask for that kind of money.

Arriving really early, setting up before all the notorieties arrived, then going off to the local cafe or pub to kill time (sometimes 4 or 5 hours), and then getting to play just when people are deciding that's it's time to go home.

Give me a jam down at the local, in front a couple of old men and the dog any time! it's what I LOVE!!!!!!!!

As I stated earlier, I'm not wealthy, in fact, due to ill health, I've been on statutory sick pay for around six months now, but the way I see it, if I don't go out on a Saturday and play (sometimes even for nothing), or listen to live music, I would just go nuts staying in watching [i]Come Dancing[/i] or [i]X Factor[/i].

But please don't take my post too seriously guys/gals, it's not worth getting too wound up about what other people do or feel, if you are that good, go out and earn as much money as you can, and let the rest of us play for the sheer pleasure, and enjoyment that we get from our HOBBY!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350062409' post='1834248']...what if I did design for the love of it and went to your place of work and did it for free .

Do you really not see the point here after 13 pages ?...[/quote]

Good evening, swanbrook (or may I call you Swan..?)...

If Paul's boss prefers to have your designs for free to Paul's at his going rate, then that's called 'competition'. If Paul gets better yet (is that possible..? ), and the boss then stops using your designs, that's the boss's prerogative. It's the boss who decides, not you or Paul.
Similarly, if Paul plays for free and the landlord or promoter prefers his free music to your paid set, that's competition. The landlord calls the tune. It would br up to you to make it worth the landlord paying you. Is that a fair [i]resumé [/i]of the state of things..?
I'm not insinuating in any way that your musicianship has no, or little value; only that it's not up to you to judge that value. It's up to those buying, not selling.
No malice intended; meanwhile...

Edited October 12, 2012 by Dad3353

[redstriper]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1350084518' post='1834539']
that's called 'competition'
[/quote]

Very nicely put if I may say so