chrismuzz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1350246073' post='1836388'] I have found that rather than paying for tickets to watch premiership football, i can nip down the park and watch a bunch of kids playing the same game for free. I got a letter from Wayne Rooney telling me to stop supporting them as they were doing him out of a job, </fatuousjoke> [/quote] Well, it made me chuckle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350243869' post='1836355'] There's more to life (and music) than the fee you get at the end [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ERbvKrH-GC4"]http://www.youtube.c...d&v=ERbvKrH-GC4[/url] [/quote] Excellent. It reminded me of this little story: A businessman was on holiday on a tropical island paradise and was walking along the beach when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large fish. The businessman complimented the fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The fisherman explained it took less than an hour or so. The businessman asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish? The fisherman said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs so why would he need anymore? The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife , stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full, busy and enjoyable life." The businessman scoffed, "Look, I'm a highly educated and experienced businessman and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat and catch more fish than you need, whcih you could sell to make money. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. As the money rolls in and Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor. Eventually you could open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to the city in order to run your new business empire from a corporate HQ." The fisherman asked, "But how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then?" The businessman laughed and said," That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions." "Millions? Then what?" The businessman said, "Then you would be able to retire and move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1350248462' post='1836421'] Excellent. It reminded me of this little story: [/quote] Haha, love that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1350248462' post='1836421'] "Millions? Then what?" [/quote] Love that and so true, not many people die wishing they'd made more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanbrook Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1350248462' post='1836421'] Excellent. It reminded me of this little story: A businessman was on holiday on a tropical island paradise and was walking along the beach when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large fish. The businessman complimented the fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The fisherman explained it took less than an hour or so. The businessman asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish? The fisherman said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs so why would he need anymore? The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife , stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full, busy and enjoyable life." The businessman scoffed, "Look, I'm a highly educated and experienced businessman and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat and catch more fish than you need, whcih you could sell to make money. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. As the money rolls in and Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor. Eventually you could open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to the city in order to run your new business empire from a corporate HQ." The fisherman asked, "But how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then?" The businessman laughed and said," That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions." "Millions? Then what?" The businessman said, "Then you would be able to retire and move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos." [/quote] What a crock of sh*te with no relevance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanbrook Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Only a fool would think for a second that it happened, it was written by a muppet to justify being lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350250662' post='1836470'] What a crock of sh*te with no relevance [/quote] . . . . says the 'businessman' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 It may have had little relevance, but I don't care Relax, you'll live longer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanbrook Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1350251883' post='1836512'] . . . . says the 'businessman' [/quote] What's that meant to mean ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Here you go fly, you'll need this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_skezz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 [quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350251801' post='1836508'] Only a fool would think for a second that it happened, it was written by a muppet to justify being lazy. [/quote] How fortunate then that no fools (or at least very few on here) think it 'happened' but in fact serves to show a very good point. I doubt many of the events in the Bible happened, but I still love my neighbour. When she's not giving me a telling off about how loud my amp is, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 @ Chrismuzz - thanks for that, but I'll have another go without it - might look too provocative. So, I apologise for any confusion by introducing that joke as a "story". It didn't occur to me that anyone could possibly believe it was supposed to be true. Let's call it a joke then, or a fable, whatever you like, but I think the gist of the story/joke/fable is pretty clear . . . except, obviously, to the businessman in the tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350243869' post='1836355'] There's more to life (and music) than the fee you get at the end [/quote] Yep - very true. The fact that other people value my time and aquired skills enough to reward me financially - a real and proven recogniton of my professional level , self -achieved technical standards and attitude - means more to me than any actual fee. It's a feeling of satisfaction I can take to the jam nights , fundraisers and other loss making projects that I choose to get involved in as well as to the paid gigs. If anyone wants to always play for free - for whatever reason and whether covers or originals - and by doing so help to make profit for an individual , or individuals , in business purely to make money - and that player is happy for that situation to continue however skilled and popular they become ......... there is a problem in that person's reasoning. I would have no respect for their attitude and be wary of their motivations. There is nothing wrong at all with playing for fun - waiving fees for promotional purposes or exposure (after first checking the motivations of those asking you to do so) or a hundred other reasons - but purely allowing others to make money off your back and not wanting your fair share is not just wrong , it's stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1350248462' post='1836421'] Excellent. It reminded me of this little story: A businessman was on holiday on a tropical island paradise and was walking along the beach when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large fish. The businessman complimented the fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The fisherman explained it took less than an hour or so. The businessman asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish? The fisherman said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs so why would he need anymore? The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife , stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full, busy and enjoyable life." The businessman scoffed, "Look, I'm a highly educated and experienced businessman and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat and catch more fish than you need, whcih you could sell to make money. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. As the money rolls in and Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor. Eventually you could open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to the city in order to run your new business empire from a corporate HQ." The fisherman asked, "But how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then?" The businessman laughed and said," That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions." "Millions? Then what?" The businessman said, "Then you would be able to retire and move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos." [/quote] There's a sequel: Everybody on the island was so jealous of the fisherman, they started doing the same thing. Eventually the market was flooded with fish, and the fisherman lost his only source of income. He retrained in IT support, and now works in a local call center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1350232594' post='1836064'] Crikey… this thread is still rumbling on!? Ultimately, if you find yourself being undercut all too often, then you're either: 1) over-charging; 2) targeting the wrong market; or 3) don't offer a sufficiently high quality service. It has to be one of those three factors - that's economics. If your band offers something worth paying for, then it shouldn't matter that other bands are operating for free. Otherwise the fault lies in one of the three factors I've listed above - it's not the fault of your competitors. [/quote] Very much this. Swanbrook out of interest can you provide a link to your band? I'd like to see/listen to what you do to give me a better perspective on your PoV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1350288936' post='1836721'] There's a sequel: Everybody on the island was so jealous of the fisherman, they started doing the same thing. Eventually the market was flooded with fish, and the fisherman lost his only source of income. He retrained in IT support, and now works in a local call center. [/quote] Kind of what I was thinking. The story is a reminder not to lose sight of what you are doing and why you are doing it. The fisherman is doing it to feed his family, not to make loads of money. It's not relevant because in our case the other "fishermen" are throwing the dead fish back and their family are eating burgers because it's more productive for them to rear cows and go fishing for fun. This leaves only dead fish for the fisherman to pull out of the water. Oar not.... The answer is for every musician to work in IT and become weekend warriors. Which I think is happeneing already in the main. Although some must be very greedy to want to be paid for having fun at the weekends while earning loads of money during the week Edited October 15, 2012 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanbrook Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1350289517' post='1836728'] Very much this. Swanbrook out of interest can you provide a link to your band? I'd like to see/listen to what you do to give me a better perspective on your PoV. [/quote] Nothing special, it's a corp/ wedding band. We put in the work and have a lot of fun doing it. This is an old clip, songs are as cheesy as hell but that's the gig ! If you can suffer till about 7:30 it gets a bit more exciting with acdc stuff. Oh and please forgive the call me al bass solo !! http://youtu.be/Cv5AroFRKmg If that link doesn't work it's also on our website Www.deja-groove.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1350288847' post='1836719'] Yep - very true. The fact that other people value my time and aquired skills enough to reward me financially - a real and proven recogniton of my professional level , self -achieved technical standards and attitude - means more to me than any actual fee. It's a feeling of satisfaction I can take to the jam nights , fundraisers and other loss making projects that I choose to get involved in as well as to the paid gigs. If anyone wants to always play for free - for whatever reason and whether covers or originals - and by doing so help to make profit for an individual , or individuals , in business purely to make money - and that player is happy for that situation to continue however skilled and popular they become ......... there is a problem in that person's reasoning. I would have no respect for their attitude and be wary of their motivations. There is nothing wrong at all with playing for fun - waiving fees for promotional purposes or exposure (after first checking the motivations of those asking you to do so) or a hundred other reasons - but purely allowing others to make money off your back and not wanting your fair share is not just wrong , it's stupid. [/quote] I think that the good Doctor has summed it up nicely! To state the obvious one more time, no half decent covers band routinely play for no money..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1350248047' post='1836413'] I think that analgy doesn't stand up at all. Try: I like football so much that I'm going to go into pubs and provide them with free satellite football so they don't have to keep paying Sky. All the equipment, programs and maintenance absolutely free, just so I can go down whenever I'm not doing anything else and watch with my mates. [/quote] Not quite, cos we're talking about Live music (so smaller intake to start with, not the huge broadcast budget) and Pros vs Amateurs, any band playing for free that i have ever seen has usually been the musical equivalent of blokes playing footy down the park. Your analogy has Sky as the victim (which is no bad thing). If I donated a free jukebox to my local, that would be a fine philanthropic thing to do, and be like the free Sky thing you mentioned. Try, premiership football on telly in pubs is killing the gate take at your local footy club and you'll be closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1350296119' post='1836830'] .. Try, premiership football on telly in pubs is killing the gate take at your local footy club and you'll be closer. [/quote] Fair enough. Analogies never really stock up do they. Wayne Rooney being affected by a kick about is like saying Bruce Springsteen being affected by a jam night. The 'pros' we're talking about aren't big famous local musicians either, just your average Joe trying to make a living playing other people's music. Look at the theatre world. If an amateur production want to put on a show, they have to ask the publisher for permission. They won't get that permission if the show is being toured by a pro company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350293491' post='1836786'] Nothing special, it's a corp/ wedding band. We put in the work and have a lot of fun doing it. This is an old clip, songs are as cheesy as hell but that's the gig ! If you can suffer till about 7:30 it gets a bit more exciting with acdc stuff. Oh and please forgive the call me al bass solo !! [media]http://youtu.be/Cv5AroFRKmg[/media] If that link doesn't work it's also on our website Www.deja-groove.com [/quote] So, it appears that Mr Swanbrook is in a very good band, who do a very good job. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350293491' post='1836786'] it's a corp/ wedding band.[/quote] Must say I really enjoyed that. I'd play in a cover band like that given half a chance. Also, it did make me think of "corporal and wedding" indeed! best, bert Edited October 15, 2012 by BassTractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanbrook Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Cheers guys, it is a lot of fun. That's our old drummer he finished last year. The new guy is amazing brings a whole different level to the gig and is a really cool guy too. We are very close and spend a lot of our free time together. "Find a job you like doing and you will never work again " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1350293491' post='1836786'] Nothing special, it's a corp/ wedding band. We put in the work and have a lot of fun doing it. This is an old clip, songs are as cheesy as hell but that's the gig ! If you can suffer till about 7:30 it gets a bit more exciting with acdc stuff. Oh and please forgive the call me al bass solo !! [media]http://youtu.be/Cv5AroFRKmg[/media] If that link doesn't work it's also on our website Www.deja-groove.com [/quote] Your band are very good at what you do mate. I don't think any band near to your level would be playing for free, so I'd be surprised if you lost many gigs from it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanbrook Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Very good at what you do, Yeah cheers .I am pretty sure I never have I am also pretty sure I never said I did. Edited October 15, 2012 by swanbrook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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