Best mic for miking up?

[grunge666]

(sic?)

I'm sick of DI-ing!

Every bleedin' gig - guitar cabs miked up - drums miked up - bass DI, grrrr

I've got £££ worth of gear - why is there always an insistence of DI' ing the bass?

Well, I've had enough - I'm never using Di again - if they've got an XLR cable, they can stick a mike on the end of it and enjoy the delights of a SVT3 and a BF S12 instead of a pre-EQ SVT3 lost in the mix somewhere.

Now I've decided on this path of (self)righteousness - what do the BC fathful consider the best mic for the job?

[EdwardHimself]

AKG D550.

[MuckedUpFunkies]

Get your amp moded to post EQ? My Markbass F1 comes standard Post EQ DI and tbh I've never been unhappy with the sound.

[skidder652003]

[quote name='MuckedUpFunkies' timestamp='1336754458' post='1650595']
Get your amp moded to post EQ? My Markbass F1 comes standard Post EQ DI and tbh I've never been unhappy with the sound.
[/quote]
but he hasnt got a markbass so he's not happy with the sound!
would say SM58 but will get laughed off this thread! AKG i guess?

[51m0n]

Heil PR40
Electro Voice Re20

Shure SM98 condensor can cope with the SPL (Flea usesd one)

Or if you are mixing the lows from a DI with the mids from a cab then a 57, or 58 would be fine, but then you have the whole issue of the mix of the two tracks.

[mrtcat]

I also prefer to mic the cab. Been using a shure beta 52a for a while and like it although has a slight natural mid scoop. The AKG is a little flatter but I run my amp pretty flat so I can hear myself on stage so the shure works well for foh mixes.

[JTUK]

In an ideal world lots of stuff would be DI'd..but bass makes real no sense to be mic'd IMV.

And if the soundman can't get a better sound than your rig, then get another soundman.
You can help the process by having post and pre EQ DI.

[pietruszka]

I've found my MarkBass cabs are a bit too on the boomy side mic'd up with a bass drum mic. In the studio yesterday I mentioned this to the engineer, he used some Beyer Dynamic mic and the cab sounded so clear and as I hear it, it was wonderful.

As for DI's? I love them! Its so much nicer I found, the sound man I tend to use loves the DI on my Aguilar head, he rates it really highly. It gives him an excellent clean strong signal to work with.

I know what you mean about guitar cabs being mic'd up so why not bass cabs? Could it be something to do with the frequencies? It is something I've pondered on before.





Dan

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1336815597' post='1651390']I know what you mean about guitar cabs being mic'd up so why not bass cabs? Could it be something to do with the frequencies? It is something I've pondered on before.
[/quote]

I think it is just due to the fact that DI is so much easier to get right than micing up a cab (plus you don't have to buy a mic) and really you just don't need to mic up a cab on a bass amp because it usually sounds pretty good just on DI.

[JTUK]

It is one less signal to bleed all over everything else...and getting rid of bass is very hard to do on a signal if it is inherrently there, so you eliminate that problem at source, if poss.

If you have a big bassy bass sound, then last thing you want to do is invite it everywhere else in the signal chain/mix

[rOB]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1336815597' post='1651390']
I've found my MarkBass cabs are a bit too on the boomy side mic'd up with a bass drum mic. In the studio yesterday I mentioned this to the engineer, he used some Beyer Dynamic mic and the cab sounded so clear and as I hear it, it was wonderful.

As for DI's? I love them! Its so much nicer I found, the sound man I tend to use loves the DI on my Aguilar head, he rates it really highly. It gives him an excellent clean strong signal to work with.

I know what you mean about guitar cabs being mic'd up so why not bass cabs? Could it be something to do with the frequencies? It is something I've pondered on before.

Dan
[/quote]

I always thought that it was something to do with guitarists often using/liking speaker distortion? Isn't that the argument for guitar amps sounding best at high volumes? I might be wrong though.

IMO, as long as I'm DI'd post amp rather than before my signal goes through the amp then I'm happy.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1336818102' post='1651435']
I always thought that it was something to do with guitarists often using/liking speaker distortion? Isn't that the argument for guitar amps sounding best at high volumes? I might be wrong though.
[/quote]

That is why guitar amps are always miked up. I'm not sure it's so much an issue of speaker distortion, but the speaker certainly rolls off a lot of the really fizzy not very nice sounding high end distortion that you hear on the DI of a guitar amp on distortion.

[rOB]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1336818311' post='1651441']
That is why guitar amps are always miked up. I'm not sure it's so much an issue of speaker distortion, but the speaker certainly rolls off a lot of the really fizzy not very nice sounding high end distortion that you hear on the DI of a guitar amp on distortion.
[/quote]
Ah I see, thanks for the clarification.

[leftybassman392]

For guitar, a low powered valve amp and an SM57 would be my ideal, so you can get the sound of the power valves working (which you don't get off a DI because it's taken from the back end of the preamp).

For bass, DI off the amp (post EQ if there's a choice). (If you're sending to the desk anyway, I can't think of a good reason to do anything else as most modern power stages are solid state, and many of the good ones are digital.) With due apologies to owners of old-school Mesa bass amps and the like of course.

[pietruszka]

Then we're all agreed! Tea any one?





Dan

[Lozz196]

I`m probably going to be the odd one out here, but I`ve found that when being DI`d, the overall sound out front has in general sounded better when it`s been flat/pre-eq from the amp. On it`s own, the sound has been thin & weedy - the first time I heard it I was virtually spitting feathers, but was told by the sound-guy to wait until the overall mix before making any comments. And he was right. It sounded great.

Of course, this won`t be the case for everyone, but for me, I prefer the bass totally flat to FOH, and largely for FOH to leave it virtually flat. And this is coming from someone who likes a lot of bass in their sound.

[grunge666]

Cheers guys, a great discussion - thats what this place is all about.
I can post EQ from my amp just that most sound guys insist on pre EQ. I can see why though.
I think I'm getting cranky in my old age! I've spent a lot of wedge on my Barefaced S12 only to be using it as a glorified monitor on stage (I know technically it is a monitor of sorts!) and a PA colours your sound somewhat.
I have had a DI/mic mix in studios before and to me that's a great sound but the practicalities at a gig limit what you can do.
We play two sets so, I think I'm gonna try a little experiment at our next full gig. DI one set and mic the other and see if anyone notices!
Thanks for the mic suggestions, I'll be trawling eBay for an AKG.
Keep it low dudes!

[JTUK]

but that is what a Bass rig is on a decent sized stage..a bass monitor.
I like to hear the sound from my set-up well, when I am close to it as I can set the sound for the nuances of my playing...but if you have ..for example, a turbosound
monitor, you can forget what your rig tries to do.

Treat it a re-enforcement and all sounds to the common good. I am quite happy to supply clean pre EQ to the board as I except him to be able to do loads more with it
so as little colour from me gives him a clean enough slate.
The post EQ is there for those guys that have all the gear and ..**** A quick chat beforehand is usually enough
to give you an idea which way to go if you don't know the crew. Unless you have reference out front...you can't really know what he'll do though anyway..

[clarkpegasus4001]

Shure SM57?

[EskimoBassist]

For Bass, I can't get enough of the Audix D6. The AKG D112 has become a bit of a standard, that's a great mic too for sure.

[51m0n]

I'm going to get hung by people again for this, but I dont like kick drum mics on bass, especially (really really really especially) if there is a kick drum mic on the kick drum.

Worst possible scenario the exact same kick drum mic on both. These two instuments in the band are often the hardest to get to sit exactly right together, in a studio or live, and putting the exact same (or nearly the exact same) eq on both of them (ie the eq built in to these types of mic) just makes it harder to frequency mix the two sources to sit right.

If you love the sound of you bass with a D112, or a D6, or a 92a, or a 52a, or a red audio rdv1 or whatever the particular version is, then do the sound guy a favour and suggest your drummer to use anything else (ie a 57, a senn 421. a PR-40, an RE20 jeez, anything else) on the kick.....

I've found it can really help when you get to mix (either studio or live) to have chosen mics that get that ball lrolling from the very beginning.

[ironside1966]

I have to ask this question, why are you not happy with the FOH sound what are you missing? If the band's sound great FOH why is it a problem that your Bass gear is just been used for back line?

A couple of points worth mentioning:

Before you spend any money you need to understand that there is no such thing has the best microphone for any instrument there are just microphones that will suite your particular needs and preferences better than any other.

The sound you hear when stood in front of a cabinet is a combination of the speaker, the cabinet resonating , ports, tweeters plus acoustic reflections from the surfaces in the room. no matter what microphone it is always going to be a compromise. The sound of your rig doesn't stop at the end of the stage so often the majority of sound is coming from stage in a moderate sized room anyway.

Bass drum Microphones tend to be very coloured were has a something like the Heil PR40 has a more transparent sound. Any engineer worth is salt knows that something that sound great in isolation or even a amp that sound good stood in front of it may not always sound good in the context of the band.

51m0n, I have the Red5 drum mic's and the Red5 valve microphone and they are are great for the money, better than a lot of the budget Chinese stuff.

Edited May 14, 2012 by ironside1966

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='ironside1966' timestamp='1336944405' post='1653155']
51m0n, I have the Red5 drum mic's and the Red5 valve microphone and they are far great for the money, better than a lot of the budget Chinese stuff.
[/quote]

You are preaching to the converted mate

[JTUK]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1336859750' post='1652141']
I'm going to get hung by people again for this, but I dont like kick drum mics on bass, especially (really really really especially) if there is a kick drum mic on the kick drum.

[/quote]

Don't know why anyone should do any hanging....makes perfect sense to me as the last thing you want to do is inhabit the same sonic space by design

[Toddy]

Good thread,,
Re stage amp as a monitor,,,was never really happy with my ash down sound,,and not in a position to start spending at the min,,so,
Bass straight into di box,,,,out to the engineer who has all the options with his new digital desk,,he sorts a brilliant punchy sound,,,sends the new punchy sound back to me down the multicore,,use this feed into my amp,,,,,voila,,,,can still turn up on stage if I want,,, ha he can even mute me...he can even send me a monitor mix if I want!! ,,really really happy with this set up,,,it's turned a tired ol ash down into a monster.........