Hello, can anybody offer a little Advice?

[rockafellar]

I'm new to this forum and am looking for some help on improving my playing. I've owned a bass guitar for about 15 years but have never actually learned how to play it properly. I've dabbled with it from time to time and jammed with mates on occasion, however, I still feel I am at a beginners level as I haven't applied myself or spent any proper time practicing. The advice i'm seeking is how to improve speed and fluidity without ragging up my wrist and tendons. My desire to improve has led to me to start practicing properly but after a couple of weeks i am getting dull aches in my fingers, wrist and forearm. My philosophy has been to train my muscles as an athlete would, repeating certain practice techniques over and over until my muscles hurt assuming that this will build strength and stamina. I'm now thinking that long term this may not be such a genius idea as this may cause problems such as tendonitus. I don't have a lot of time to devote at present as I have two very spirited daughters, 3 and 5 years old, so my practice time is restricted to the odd half hour here and there. They really don't give me a moments peace and my youngest has not even started any kind of schooling yet. Can anybody give advice on practice techniques to improve speed, stamina and fluidity without causing any possible future problems. I don't need any help learning how to play major/minor scales or identifying notes on a fretboard. My issues are learning how to move around a fretboard with guile so I can translate the grooves in my head into tunes a bass guitar.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

[paulpirie8]

You should maybe look at getting yourself a "gripmaster" to use at work or even just sitting about the house. You can pick one up for about £8 on amazon.

They're a good way of strengthening your hands and forearms and would mean that the time you do have to practice could be better spent.

I use mine at work and before gigs to warm up!

[Dad3353]

Good morning, Rockafellar...

Speed..? Get a metronome (or drum machine...). Set it to a very slow beat, and practice to that beat. The next session, up the beat by a tad (3 bpm..?) and repeat. If you find that it gets too fast after a while, go back to the beginning and start again.
Speed comes only by doing things slowly. It cannot be hurried. Patience is key.
Stamina..? Bass playing is not a marathon event. One seldom plays for continuous hours on end. Stamina (in the athletic sense...) is not a requirement. Most songs last less than 5 minutes, some up to 20, perhaps; you don't need iron fingers to do that. Ordinary practice will be more than adequate for building the amount you'll be needing (more so as you're not practicing for hours on end...). Forget it.
Fluidity..? Similar to speed. Practice perfectly, don't let anything get by. If you can't play it at tempo, slow down, play it perfectly at whatever speed you can, and only increase very, very slowly.
There is no hurry, take you time to get it down absolutely spot on, slowly, first. The rest will follow. Just as encouragement, here's my favourite expression... 'The first 40 years are the hardest, after which it gets (slightly...) better.'
Just my tuppence worth; hope this helps.

[Coilte]

First off, I would not worry too much about speed for now. That will come with time. Technique wise, it is generally accepted that the best and safest way to play the bass is with both wrists as straight as possible. Granted, lots of players dont do this, so it's up to each individual to find a technique that suits them. I have posted some links below for R/H and L/H technique. Try to play with a light touch. If you need volume, then let the amp do the work. Warming up with gentle stretches (before you even touch the bass) is important in avoiding possible injuries. Warm down after a practice session. Search You Tube for clips on this.

My advice would be to get a good teacher. A half a dozen lessons would get you off to a flying start. Failing that, some good books/sites I would recommend would be :

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hal-Leonard-Bass-Method-Book-2-Hal-Leonard-Electric-Bass-Method-Ed-Friedland-/120880288788?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item1c2506d414"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hal-Leonard-Bass-Method-Book-2-Hal-Leonard-Electric-Bass-Method-Ed-Friedland-/120880288788?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item1c2506d414[/url] This comes in three volumes. All three can be got in one spiral bound edition. Each comes with it's own CD.

[url="http://www.studybass.com"]www.studybass.com[/url] A great all round bass site.


Technique :

R/H :

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU[/url]



L/H ;


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL1BCA4CD1AAF0FAE2"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL1BCA4CD1AAF0FAE2[/url]

[Coilte]

[quote name='paulpirie8' timestamp='1333701750' post='1605360']
You should maybe look at getting yourself a "gripmaster" to use at work or even just sitting about the house.

[/quote]

Not good advice IMO. A minimal amount of strength is required to fret a string. These devices develop grip, where the main idea with good technique is to have the hands relaxed. Grip has no part in bass playing.

[ZMech]

I'd second Coilte's sentiments, it's all about the technique, especially in terms of preventing injury. Mostly it comes down to keeping your wrists straight, but even just one or two lessons from a good teacher could set you on the right path.

[OldG]

I'd recommend playing as lightly as you can.. try working on yor fret hand first, when fretting - try 'placing' ( not squeezing) your finger just onto the string to touch the string against the side of the fret (not the fingerboard). Practice until you get a clean note...this is all the pressure you'll need to play. Use the same method (playing as lightly as you can - letting the amp do the work) for your other hand if you play fingerstyle - this will help your dynamics as you get more familiar with playing lightly...

just the way I was taught - but it works for me

HTH
Mick


edit the other light touch posts beat me to it

Edited April 6, 2012 by OldG

[jimbaby]

Hi
There is a Bob Babbitt technique vid on here somewhere, and he also stresses that a light touch is beneficial, he also advocates the use of strengthening aids (rubber ball to squeeze) and exercises.
Regards
Jim

[mcnach]

[quote name='rockafellar' timestamp='1333700731' post='1605351']
I'm new to this forum and am looking for some help on improving my playing. I've owned a bass guitar for about 15 years but have never actually learned how to play it properly. I've dabbled with it from time to time and jammed with mates on occasion, however, I still feel I am at a beginners level as I haven't applied myself or spent any proper time practicing. The advice i'm seeking is how to improve speed and fluidity without ragging up my wrist and tendons. My desire to improve has led to me to start practicing properly but after a couple of weeks i am getting dull aches in my fingers, wrist and forearm. My philosophy has been to train my muscles as an athlete would, repeating certain practice techniques over and over until my muscles hurt assuming that this will build strength and stamina. I'm now thinking that long term this may not be such a genius idea as this may cause problems such as tendonitus. I don't have a lot of time to devote at present as I have two very spirited daughters, 3 and 5 years old, so my practice time is restricted to the odd half hour here and there. They really don't give me a moments peace and my youngest has not even started any kind of schooling yet. Can anybody give advice on practice techniques to improve speed, stamina and fluidity without causing any possible future problems. I don't need any help learning how to play major/minor scales or identifying notes on a fretboard. My issues are learning how to move around a fretboard with guile so I can translate the grooves in my head into tunes a bass guitar.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.
[/quote]


I'm not a big fan of the Gripmaster and similar contraptions, as suggested earlier in the thread. The reason being that I do not think those exercises really reproduce the movements and positions you use on a guitar or bass, and that the issue is not one of strength: you don't need to press a string very hard at all to have it fret properly.

One of the issues I had when i stared out was that my left hand (I am right handed, so that's my fretting hand) would get tired and even hurt at times. I am not talking fingertips, which is unavoidable, but muscular/tendon pain. I didn't realise it initially, but now it's clear I was just gripping the neck too hard, and even trying to fret too hard sometimes, and I see that in a lot of beginners, and not so beginners as well. I think that is bad for two reasons: THAT is what ends up being painful, and it is actually making it harder for you to play fluidly, as you need to contract the muscles a lot, and quickly relax them. That's not very economic. Check out players you consider to be fluid and notice how when they flay fast runs their left hand does not seem to move a whole lot, you don't get fingers flapping about, and the fingers press on the strings probably a lot gentler than you are doing now.

So I would say... just practice. Time is the key. You need to put hours to improve. So choose things to play that you like (it must be fun, so you want to keep coming back for more), that are challenging but not so much that you just cannot do it, and play as often as you can. Better to play 20 minutes everyday than 3h today and nothing for a week. Focus on getting the right sounds, so if you can't play something at speed... slow down until you can do it at a certain speed. Then make it harder by increasing the speed until you can play it comfortably, in steps.
Focus on not presting too hard and not gripping the neck too hard. Relax your hand and forearm... from time to time loosen up your arm. It seems odd at first, but very quickly you get used to playing more gently, and you will notice your arm does not get tired so much, or at all. Build stamina by playing, not by body building, you already have more strength than you will ever need to play bass

If you play fingerstyle... same thing.
When I started playing fingerstyle, my fingers would get tired, my hand would cramp sometimes. I was just hitting the strings too hard. If I focus on hitting the strings *just right* I don't use so much force, and I can play more smoothly and faster. And again, you build up stamina by playing regularly. It happens more quickly than you think, but you have to be regular.

Despite having said that I am not a fan of the Gripmaster... there is one thing that I personally used when I started playing fingerstyle and I felt it did help. I used a "powerball", one of those devices that you hold in your hand and make the ball inside turn by shaking your wrist... and as it gathers speed the gyroscopic forces increase and makes it harder for you to hold it. I always had weaker forearms than the rest of my body, even when I was weightlifting... my forearms would be the weakest link. A physiotherapist friend of mine, when I was talking about my cramping hand playing fingerstyle told me first of all that I was probably just getting too tense and using too much strength (spot on) and the other was she recommended trying one of those balls. I noticed an improvement within a week. It's gentle, and it's at least a great warm up device. I do not use it anymore... but when I was starting, it helped me build up stamina and to start the practice with warm muscles/tendons.
Having said that, I insist... it is NOT needed. Just watch out how much force you apply, and play regularly. It will come to you.

[Nibody]

Basic left hand exercises. Bought a book "Improvising Rock Bass" a few years ago - most of it was not much use, but it did have some good left hand exercises in it. Simple things but worked a treat. For example:

Starting on the E string, play 1st, 2nd,3rd,4th frets using your 1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th fingers. Then move to the A string and play down 4,3,2,1, D string 1,2,3,4, G String 4,3,2,1. Then move everything up a fret, start on the G this time 2,3,4,5 then D 5,4,3,2 etc. keep going like this and work up the neck.

Second one is similair idea but you play E1,A2,D3,G4 then G1,D2,A3,D4 and again move it all up one fret and repeat down the neck

Gets you used to using all four fingers and moving around the neck. Not musically interesting but it helped me a lot.

Actual finger exercises (Stretches) - Hold hands out and spread fingers and thumb as far as you can without causing pain, and hold for 5 seconds, Then squeeze to a "Slap hand" and hold for five seconds. While your hand is like that (sort of like a "hitler salute I guess!!?) Bend each finger at the first joint after the knuckle as close to 90 degrees as you can and hold for 5 seconds. Then do them in pairs (1&3, 2&4, 1&4, 2&3) - youll probably find the ring fingers want to follow the little finger.

These are good for a warm up.

[gjones]

Turn amp up louder and play softer. Also keep wrists straight to avoid wrist problems in future.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1333705215' post='1605421']
Basic left hand exercises. Bought a book "Improvising Rock Bass" a few years ago - most of it was not much use, but it did have some good left hand exercises in it. Simple things but worked a treat. For example:

Starting on the E string, play 1st, 2nd,3rd,4th frets using your 1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th fingers. Then move to the A string and play down 4,3,2,1, D string 1,2,3,4, G String 4,3,2,1. Then move everything up a fret, start on the G this time 2,3,4,5 then D 5,4,3,2 etc. keep going like this and work up the neck.
.[/quote]

This is a good exercise, except for one caveat. OP, this is known as the "one finger per fret technique". It is a very economical way of playing, but be [b]very[/b] careful when applying it to frets 1-5. The stretch can be too much for a lot of people on these frets. I'd recommend doing "Nibody's" suggested exercise starting on say, the 10th or 12th fret, working your way down as you get comfortable with the technique. On the lower frets, it is common for bassists to use the pinkie to fret where the third finger would normally.

One more thing. Never play through pain. If you experience any, then stop immediately, investagate the cause and adjust accordingly.

[discreet]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1333709292' post='1605504']
Never play through pain. If you experience any, then stop immediately, investigate the cause and adjust accordingly.
[/quote]

Coilte has it.

[louisthebass]

Check these out:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqx5Bry2aYE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqx5Bry2aYE[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsDbh0buYHE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsDbh0buYHE[/url]

Loads of sense being taught here

[oggiesnr]

Have a few lessons with an experienced teacher (not just a mate who plays bass) and concentrate on developing a solid technique that works for you. From there on in it's a question of moving steadily forward working on what you need for the music you want to play.

Steve

[discreet]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1333709764' post='1605512']
Loads of sense being taught here
[/quote]

+1 It's all good.

[stevie]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1333709292' post='1605504']
This is a good exercise, except for one caveat. OP, this is known as the "one finger per fret technique". It is a very economical way of playing, but be [b]very[/b] careful when applying it to frets 1-5.
[/quote]
+1. Using one finger per fret near the nut can cause wrist pain if you have small or normal sized fingers. Some teachers advise linking the fourth and fifth fingers together for support and only using one finger per fret up the neck where the frets are closer together. It definitely worked for me. I think Dave Marks has a lesson on his website that discusses this.

Edited April 6, 2012 by stevie

[Mornats]

Some great advice on here.

Rockafella, I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to aches in my left hand. A few things have really helped me though. First and foremost, the advice being given here about using a light touch is spot on. I took my bass for a setup with the instruction that I wanted the action (the height between the strings and frets in case you're not familiar with the term) as low as possible without giving too much fret buzz. I can now fret most notes without putting my thumb behind the neck. Not that I wouldn't use my thumb but the action is so nice now that I can just apply a little bit of pressure to fret notes. This has totally changed the way I play and I can play longer and faster now.

Warming up before playing does help too. I struggle to play anything decent if I haven't warmed up. You can either play some easy songs slowly until you get some fluidity in your hands or do exercises, whichever works for you. I got myself a gripmaster but didn't find it useful. It's not building up the right kind of strength for bass playing mainly because it's not strength that you need. Plus there's concerns about developing carpel tunnel syndrome by using one.

As I said, there's some great advice in here so have a read and try some of it out. Good luck!

[Coilte]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1333710870' post='1605532']
I think Dave Marks has a lesson on his website that discusses this.
[/quote]

He does indeed ! I think it's worth posting it here :


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXkxu_7Tn48"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXkxu_7Tn48[/url]

[Dave Tipping]

+1 on turning your amp up and playing softer .. having said that I sit with a grip master at work (mainly as a stress reliever!) .. it definitely builds hand / finger and forearm stamina. It's been a long time since I've had a marty mcfly moment on stage.

[rockafellar]

Guys, this is great stuff and makes so much sense. You can get into bad habits that are difficult to break unless you are willing to spend a few moments listening to others. Thanks for the links as well. Not had time to look at them properly yet so thats my evenings entertainment sorted once the kids are in bed. A few wise words can go a long way. Thanks again.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Dave Tipping' timestamp='1333716623' post='1605649']
I sit with a grip master at work (mainly as a stress reliever!) .. it definitely builds hand / finger and forearm stamina.
[/quote]

Strength and stamina are two different things. As discussed, minimal strength is required to fret a string. To find out just how much, try fretting a string without the thumb on the back of the neck. These gadgets build gripping strength, which is not required for playing bass. I am sure they have their uses elsewhere.

Stamina, and dexterity are what is needed. These involve the lifting of the fingers [b]off [/b]of the frets and onto another fret, (the opposite of gripping) without getting in each other's way. Again, these grip gadgets are useless in achieving this.

The weight lifter and the gymnast come to mind here. Each need a different training approach in order to achieve their different goals.

[icastle]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1333704218' post='1605411']
Despite having said that I am not a fan of the Gripmaster... there is one thing that I personally used when I started playing fingerstyle and I felt it did help. I used a "powerball", one of those devices that you hold in your hand and make the ball inside turn by shaking your wrist... and as it gathers speed the gyroscopic forces increase and makes it harder for you to hold it. [/quote]

I have one of those - they really work your forearms.
Mine came from a climbing equipment shop.

[Dave Tipping]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1333719269' post='1605698']


Strength and stamina are two different things. As discussed, minimal strength is required to fret a string. To find out just how much, try fretting a string without the thumb on the back of the neck. These gadgets build gripping strength, which is not required for playing bass. I am sure they have their uses elsewhere.

Stamina, and dexterity are what is needed. These involve the lifting of the fingers [b]off [/b]of the frets and onto another fret, (the opposite of gripping) without getting in each other's way. Again, these grip gadgets are useless in achieving this.

The weight lifter and the gymnast come to mind here. Each need a different training approach in order to achieve their different goals.
[/quote]

... Minimal strength is required for fretting a string but holding your arm up and playing for 3hours plus 3 nights a weekend after sitting at a desk most weekdays takes finger and forearm stamina ... Something I've found my grip gadget perfect for. It isn't a strugle to push down but quickly fiddling with it has def. Improved the dexterity of my left hand and my hand genuinely never feels tired at gigs. Obviously sitting playing your guitar all day long would be far better .. but for some people that's simply not possible.

[mcnach]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1333723244' post='1605759']


I have one of those - they really work your forearms.
Mine came from a climbing equipment shop.
[/quote]


That's where I bought mine too. Mine had a revs counter and memory..... but it came with an old battery and never bothered to replace it. The motion powered up some leds, though... quite fascinating to watch in the dark