Noise Limiters at venues

[HeavyJay]

I've done a search for this subject here and came up with a couple of threads from '09:[list]
[*][url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/97187-noise-limiter/page__p__911850__hl__noise%20limiter__fromsearch__1#entry911850"]http://basschat.co.u...__1#entry911850[/url]
[*][url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/69079-sound-level-monitors-at-gigs/page__hl__noise%20limiter"]http://basschat.co.u...noise%20limiter[/url]
[/list]
I was wondering if people had had any more recent experiences with these? Has technology moved on and improved the lot of the function band?

I've been asked to do a wedding gig at a venue with a "noise limiter set at 86db at the outside wall". My first reaction is to say no but I wonder if I'm being too hasty. We're not a particularly loud band and have good volume control when required.

My experience of most gigs is that punter noise levels go up and so do band noise levels as the evening progresses and sobriety is banished from the premises. Even if you gave yourself plenty of "space" for this increase when soundchecking, there's still plenty of risk that the limiter will cut us off (if that's they work).

I understand why the venue has one, it's a country village pub / Coaching Inn type of place with plenty of houses around it.

Edited to add: This is the place, http://www.devonshirefell.co.uk/index.cfm, my description above didn't quite do it justice!

My worries are:
Disrupting the flow of the gig / party / atmosphere
Potential damage to equipment from sudden power cuts

Any experiences / recommendations?

Edited March 16, 2012 by HeavyJay

[crez5150]

I have a clause in our contract that states we are not responsible for disruption due to sound limiters. The worst one we have come across is at Knebworth House. We play an annual bash there and we always take a feed from elsewhere.

You just have to either play quietly within the limits or try to bypass them somehow.

[yorks5stringer]

My experience is if you can see the bloody thing flashing it really affects your performance and no matter how quiet you are it trips anyway. Take a feed from another circuit/room, it's the only way!

BTW Hi John! Busy at work...?

Edited March 14, 2012 by yorks5stringer

[JTUK]

Have a look at the venue and bypass.... and then stick to decent volumes.
Take some long extention leads.

If that is not an option, then don't take the gig, IMO. Unless you are familiar with the parameters that set the trip off, then it could be a lottery.
Also, the management might be wise to cable re-runs and not allow it.

[HeavyJay]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1331721365' post='1577560']
BTW Hi John! Busy at work...?
[/quote]

Hi Keith! Would you believe it: Yes!

[Happy Jack]

We only play one regular gig with a sound limiter, where we routinely bypass it with the landlord's blessing.

He's happy to give us his blessing because he knows we won't abuse the privilege, and it helps that we take an electronic drum kit to that venue. Several other bands who play there don't get the option.

I haven't got a problem with playing quietly, but I have a BIG problem with hitting the E string a bit hard and having the entire band suddenly cut out.

[HeavyJay]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1331724100' post='1577650']
I haven't got a problem with playing quietly, but I have a BIG problem with hitting the E string a bit hard and having the entire band suddenly cut out.
[/quote]

I think this sums up my position.

Many thanks for the replies.

[JTUK]

or clapping..and I am not talking about raptuous applause, single hand claps set some off, IME.

[crez5150]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331725003' post='1577674']
or clapping..and I am not talking about raptuous applause, single hand claps set some off, IME.
[/quote]

Indeed..... there's been a few venues where we've turned up and the background conversation noise has almost tripped the system. One place we set up at.... the system tripped when I turned my bass amp on... never good.

[chris_b]

[quote name='HeavyJay' timestamp='1331720491' post='1577539']
....My worries are: Disrupting the flow of the gig / party / atmosphere.... Potential damage to equipment from sudden power cuts....
[/quote]

We run a long lead to an unmetered power socket if we run into a metered gig, but we will play quietly if we are asked or have to.

Most bands, including us, play too loudly anyway so having to turn it down makes a nice change and sharpens up your playing. If you can’t play quieter don’t do a gig with a meter.

If you don't follow the rules and trip the power then you'll be the ones killing the atmosphere. You can see what you are doing so play quieter.

Cutting the power won't damage your gear but the spike caused by powering up with the gear switched on might if you haven't anti-surge protection in the amp. If you trip the power always immediately switch the amps off.
[font=Arial][size=2] [/size][/font]

[Roland Rock]

The Merchant Tailor's Hall in York. We played a jazz/funk gig for a wake(!) and the limiter cut out upon the first snare hit at soundcheck. Fortunately we were able to bypass.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1331726273' post='1577709']
....We played a jazz/funk gig for a wake(!) and the limiter cut out upon the first snare hit at soundcheck....
[/quote]

I hate those piccolo snares!!!!

[HeavyJay]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1331725358' post='1577686']
We run a long lead to an unmetered power socket if we run into a metered gig, but we will play quietly if we are asked or have to.

Most bands, including us, play too loudly anyway so having to turn it down makes a nice change and sharpens up your playing. If you can’t play quieter don’t do a gig with a meter.

If you don't follow the rules and trip the power then you'll be the ones killing the atmosphere. You can see what you are doing so play quieter.

Cutting the power won't damage your gear but the spike caused by powering up with the gear switched on might if you haven't anti-surge protection in the amp. If you trip the power always immediately switch the amps off.

[/quote]

We're pretty adept at being able to play quietly and do a few gigs where this is a necessity but with people's experiences of having the thing trip with background noise, audience reaction etc, even if we do follow the rules it sounds like the power could still trip. Short of playing quieter when the audience volume ebbs and flows I can't see how we could help it.

That's good to know about the amp / power surge thing, thanks for the info.

[chris_b]

If the meter is so sensitive that the audience can set the thing off then there's nothing the band can do! These things can be adjusted but I've no idea how you do that.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1331727984' post='1577775']
If the meter is so sensitive that the audience can set the thing off then there's nothing the band can do! These things can be adjusted but I've no idea how you do that.
[/quote]

Lump hammer.

[Jigster]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1331727984' post='1577775']
If the meter is so sensitive that the audience can set the thing off then there's nothing the band can do! These things can be adjusted but I've no idea how you do that.
[/quote]

saw a band recently where there was a limiter - they tried sticking gaffa over the sensor. Did nothing! It was a night mare for them.

[joeystrange]

Last time I played a venue with a noise limiter the bass kept tripping it so I kept having to down down and down and down until I could barely hear the amp so I just switched it off and ran direct instead.
I hate those things.

[BottomE]

I love playing quietly so i secretly enjoy these devices unless they are set at a ridiculously low level. The guitarist has kittens when he sees them.

[risingson]

The biggest problem with most venues with sound limiters is that they're never properly calibrated anyway. Our contract stipulates that if you want to hire us then it is advisable for you to look for a venue without a sound limiter, and if the venue does have one then we're not responsible for what happens next. Needless to say, there have been many a time when clients haven't listened and we've ended up stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Chris_b is right though, the necessity to turn down in these situations sharpens your playing tenfold. But with that goes a lot of the energy of a performance too, at least for me. Not that you need to be loud to play to your full potential but let's face it... bands are loud things!

[Doddy]

I did a gig in an old barn a few months ago where there was a very low sound limiter and we had to use their
PA speakers-4 little Bose things that weren't really suited to a band.
No problem...electric drums,no amps,all DI'd,everyone on in-ears....job done,everyone's happy.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1331728186' post='1577780']
Lump hammer.
[/quote]

Or an AK-47 if you've got one handy.....

I've only ever encountered these things twice on gigs and they are a pain in the backside. Why venues with these things choose to hold things like wedding receptions or parties is beyond me .

[Raggy]

[quote name='joeystrange' timestamp='1331728540' post='1577789']
Last time I played a venue with a noise limiter the bass kept tripping it so I kept having to down down and down and down until I could barely hear the amp so I just switched it off and ran direct instead.
I hate those things.
[/quote]

We had exactly the same thing at a wedding last year. Hate them with a vengeance.

The bride and groom were pleading to the hotel management to turn it off but were told that it would disturb the other guests.

Ironically, every room in the hotel was taken up by wedding guests

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1331729680' post='1577813']


Why venues with these things choose to hold things like wedding receptions or parties is beyond me .
[/quote]

Because they like money.
They won't advertise that fact that they have a limiter to the person booking

Edited March 14, 2012 by Roland Rock

[crez5150]

This is why I always do a visit to the venue before the gig so there are no surprises.

[JTUK]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331728744' post='1577795']
The biggest problem with most venues with sound limiters is that they're never properly calibrated anyway. Our contract stipulates that if you want to hire us then it is advisable for you to look for a venue without a sound limiter, and if the venue does have one then we're not responsible for what happens next. Needless to say, there have been many a time when clients haven't listened and we've ended up stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Chris_b is right though, the necessity to turn down in these situations sharpens your playing tenfold. But with that goes a lot of the energy of a performance too, at least for me. Not that you need to be loud to play to your full potential but let's face it... bands are loud things!
[/quote]

Indeed... recent wedding we did...and we aren't a wedding band, but this was a specific request, we played very quietly for us.
We treated it as a paid rehearsal and it went well.

The other thing about unknown venues is stage and room size.. so it does indeed make sense, to us, at least, to have a look at these places if possible.
The last wedding was good in that the stage was 16 by 8 ft and this is our miminum size now. but that is another topic.