The Advent of Punk - Good or Bad Thing?

[TransistorBassMan]

Punk was definitely a good thing. I've always thought that the attitude was as important and influential as the music. It was punk + ska that that gave us The Specials and the Two Tone label.

I'd also like to show some love for The Ruts and The Skids

Edited February 15, 2012 by TransistorBassMan

[Prosebass]

[quote name='TransistorBassMan' timestamp='1329311190' post='1540401']
Punk was definitely a good thing. I've always thought that the attitude was as important and influential as the music. It was punk + ska that that gave us The Specials and the Two Tone label.

I'd also like to show some love for The Ruts and The Skids
[/quote]

In the mid 70's it introduced some great bands to me from across the pond. Devo, The Stooges, The Tubes, The Ramones, Television.
At the time there was a lot of tension between different social groups associated with certain music (well there was in my town) and punk seemed to diffuse alot of this being a broad church, and brought together people rather than alienating them.

[phil.i.stein]

without punk we'd have no Fishbone

[buff]

I wonder if there would be a bass forum without punk. The sound of a gnarly bass made up so much punk and post punk for me, i know everything musically influences people on different level's,. But the best bit (even if it was a lie perpatrated by the sex pistols) was that you didnt need to play to be in a band. So it has given any kid who's liked the music over the last 36 years, the hope that they could make a noise and join a band. Some even got better, i'd even go as far as to say most people on here have a punk/new wave bassist in theyre top ten. It also opened your ear's to the punk/reggae/garage/rockabilly spin off's

[Grim13]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1329250431' post='1539660']
I already loved music, but in 77, when on holiday in Jersey, there was this song that was being played everywhere, and the energy from it was unlike anything I`d ever heard. It was Pretty Vacant.

From there on, I was hooked, but didn`t really get into the "overfast" punk that many think that`s what it was all about. For me, punk (and new wave) was about good tunes, an attitude that said "you aren`t automatically right because....." and the willingness to try new things, instead of copying the previous. The clothes were good too.

I`m also glad I never bought into the violence aspect, and, when you read about the actual people who started it, in the many bands form all over the country, with a few exceptions, most were the geeks at school who didn`t fit in, and not hard at all. The threatening image was banded about I`m sure due to the ferocity of how the music was played, and the media latched on to that, labelling punk as violent.
[/quote]

This⬆

The intro to Pretty Vacant still gives me goosebumps. I was 13 when that came out and though I'd really liked the sound of Glam, this was dangerous. It had an edge and caused a reaction that I haven't seen since. I loved it immediately and got a tape of all the Pistols stuff I could and played it all the time. I bought Peaches/Go Buddy Go with my paper round money later that summer and that was it; another wannabe JJ was born. I wouldn't call the Stranglers Punk but they had the same menace and attitude and were darker.

Later on I liked the UK Subs / Cockney rejects for their simple, raw power and the Anti Nowhere League took it a bit further lyrically but that was about it, IMO. I got into Wobble through PIL, who certainly weren't typically punk.

It was a violent time. Every UK Subs or Stranglers gig I went to in the early 80's had a fight. A Brixton riot kicked off after a 4 Skins gig.

Elvis Costello was 'New Wave', not punk, that's my opinion. I remember people saying Jilted John was punk. He just happened to be on the scene when punk was out.

Punk clothes were great. Anyone else seen Mick Jagger wearing a 'Destroy' T shirt with bits of tape stuck to the swastika to disguise it?

[BILL POSTERS]

I'm convinced that Punk made a huge difference to the way things have turned out, At the time it certainly got me, and thousands of others like me away from trying to be a serious musician and put the fun back into it. And woke up a lot of the boring old fart musos who were getting too far up their own arses at the same time

Wasnt really all that new though I dont reckon, in the early 60s bands like the Stones and tha Yardbirds stopped dressing in identical suits and grew their hair. That shocked the older folks. but it dragged on and the same once outrageous people went off the 3 chords for 3 minutes formula and started making 'concept albums' some called emselves the Cream and played 20 minute solos, things like that.

Just think how music could have ended without the new wave bands of the mid 70s.

.

[visog]

"The Advent of Punk - Good or Bad Thing?"

I'll go 'good' with heaps of hindsight and a broad definition of Punk to include New Wave.

Prog had its faults (elitism, aloofness and being out of touch in some pretty tough times) but Punk had masses of hypocracy....

The Stranglers and Killing Joke both had their proggy moments and consider: Jon Anderson, son of a milkman; Joe Strummer, son of a diplomat....

[bassmachine2112]

Punk was a breath of fresh air which was needed cause music was wallowing at the time.
It focused on the tune and not how technicaly advanced the musical skills of the players were.
It gave you belief that you could go out and be in a band when it seemed you had to be some gifted musician who had insights into the middle earth and knew elfs and goblins personally.
It focused on real issues at the time and was a current social commentary.
The great thing was that you could crank a bass up with a right aggressive sound and it done the job.
Music come back to the streets.Pub rock started the move with fast short songs with catchy sing a longs.
About time something like this happened again and the minds of the young are opened up to ask questions and not just sit back and be force fed pap"it must be good cause it,s on sattelite tv,radio one etc.

[Carld]

I remember Punk as being the thing that changed everything. You cant blame record companies for making it what it was because they were doing that to other genre's of music before Punk. ( Genesis, Yes, Prog rock)? You cant have a go at a spotty kid wanting to express him or herself with a Woolworths guitar in a different way to what us muso's do. Dance music was the same when it came about with computer's. Pretty much the same thing with kid's having no playing abilty but making things that excite them. Bring it on I say!

[Jacqueslemac]

As someone has pointed out, defining which bands were "punk" is really difficult. The Stranglers are routinely listed as among the "core" bands, but wasn't it the Pistols who described the Stranglers as "long haired hippies"? I think it was because they had an organ.

[Prunesquallor]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1329296555' post='1540071']
I thought their first release was the German album with Tony Sheridan!

Seriously though, yes, Punk was a huge influence, but I still maintain that there was a lot less of it in the public conciousness at the time than people like to remember. Which really adds to the movement's importance, how something relatively small gave birth to the whole independent record business and a huge mass of great post-Punk music.
[/quote]

Agreed!

[JTUK]

Its funny..when people talk about punk they think of London.

I think they pretty much ripped of the NY Dolls and brought it home.

[buff]

That's another debate in itself lol, close links for sure. In that the dolls shopped in let it rock and mclaren managing them briefly. He had an idea to bring sylvain sylvain (dolls guitarist) over to front the sw***ers ( pre lydon pistols) jones even ended up with sylvains off white les paul, which mclaren aquired for him

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='bassmachine2112' timestamp='1329381698' post='1541402']

[b][i] it seemed you had to be some gifted musician who had insights into the middle earth and knew elfs and goblins personally.[/i][/b]

[/quote]

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='bassmachine2112' timestamp='1329381698' post='1541402']
some gifted musician who had insights into the middle earth and knew elfs and goblins personally.
[/quote]

It had to be said...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAXzzHM8zLw[/media]

Edited February 16, 2012 by skankdelvar

[Bassmonkey]

It's already been said here but when you look at the music that was charting (and yes I realise that's not the full picture) there was a ton of dross, just watch TOTP 1977 thats been aired at the moment, something was needed to inject some energy. To suddenly see bands like the Pistols and The Jam on TV was truly amazing to a 14 year old like me. Energy, great songs, attitude and the look plus your mum and dad hated them - what's not to like? There is a place for all music (except R&B of course) but in my opinion, Punk is the genre that has never stopped being exciting and remains my first love.

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1329299074' post='1540111']A lot of rubbish is spoken about music (& long may that remain) but I simply enjoyed the tunes. No real cultural significance for me. During the Silver Jubilee as the Pistols sailed down the Thames I believe I was at a tea party on Marlborough High Street dressed as a cowboy. I sat by my friend Pete and had a great day
[/quote]

I was at some village party. All of us kids were given a Jubilee mug. I asked my dad why were given a mug. He said 'It's because that's what they think we are...'. As you can probably guess, my parents aren't fans of the royal family... Maybe my dad was a bit of a punk (actually he was a mod/folk fan)...

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='Bassmonkey' timestamp='1329390620' post='1541610']

There is a place for all music [i][b](except R&B of course)[/b][/i]

[/quote]

Thats just a label, a lot of it was R&B really..or was Dr Feelgood - for example - not punky enough for you then ??

[Bassmonkey]

[quote name='BRANCINI' timestamp='1329397742' post='1541800']
Thats just a label, a lot of it was R&B really..or was Dr Feelgood - for example - not punky enough for you then ??
[/quote] Ooh no, love trad guitar R&B in fact, the first gig I ever played was supporting Dr Feelgood. I mean that vocal gymnastic twaddle my kids listen to Rihanna etc....

Edited February 16, 2012 by Bassmonkey

[MacDaddy]

frequent references to Top of the Pops to illustrate how bad music was. People seem to forget Led Zeppelin were still kicking ass, Thin Lizzy, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple were around, and Motorhead were getting started.

Not to mention all the stateside funk involving Larry Graham and Bootsy Collins.

[Jerry_B]

Maybe that's because the heavier rock bands weren't on TOTP all that much...

[hairyhaw]

[quote name='BRANCINI' timestamp='1329333988' post='1540912']Wasnt really all that new though I dont reckon, in the early 60s bands like the Stones and tha Yardbirds stopped dressing in identical suits and grew their hair. That shocked the older folks. but it dragged on and the same once outrageous people went off the 3 chords for 3 minutes formula and started making 'concept albums' some called emselves the Cream and played 20 minute solos, things like that.[/quote]

Well you're right in that prog was a punk-style reaction to the 3 chords/3 minutes tradition that was the dominant force at the time.

Also have to say that it wasn't all about elves either - that's a bit of a traditionally lazy observation - Genesis' "Selling England By The Pound" contains a fair amount of commentary on Britain's social decline from an admittedly middle class perspective (people "chewing on their Wimpey dreams"). And Can (which depending on who you ask is Krautrock, Prog or even Kraut Prog) doesn't have elves on the agenda either, even if Damo Suzuki was a bit out there. Gentle Giant definitely DID have some sort of Elfin-Featured giant on the first album, and an Octopus on a later one. But then they wrote a song about the music press called Interview. Quite a lot of the music could be pretty aggressive. But there was plenty humour too, some could even be described as po-faced - much like punk then.

Punk served its purpose - even Chris Squire had become bored of playing 20 minute epics and was looking for a new direction and he reportedly had a copy of "Never Mind The Bollocks" in his mega mansion in Virginia Waters.

Punk's only crime was to give a platform to Paul Morley who has managed to build a career spouting dewy-eyed drivel about punk ever since.

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1329404195' post='1541954']
frequent references to Top of the Pops to illustrate how bad music was. People seem to forget Led Zeppelin were still kicking ass, Thin Lizzy, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple were around, and Motorhead were getting started.

Not to mention all the stateside funk involving Larry Graham and Bootsy Collins.
[/quote]

To be honest, to my mind, the singles from the early 70s have, on the whole outlasted the album tracks which os surprising when you cosider that singles bands like Slade and the Faces were looked down on by the groovy people, myself included, who only bought albums back then. I still have the albums, but cant really get into them, theyre just so dated.

There are of course the odd album tracks that still sound good. As evidenced by what covers bands are still playing 30, or sometimes 40 years on. None of em are by Genesis, or Yes, or the Van Fer Graff boring ol fart generators though.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Bassmonkey' timestamp='1329403504' post='1541938']
Ooh no, love trad guitar R&B in fact, the first gig I ever played was supporting Dr Feelgood. I mean that vocal gymnastic twaddle my kids listen to Rihanna etc....
[/quote]

Yep I remember R&B when it meant music like Dr Feelgood. Quality band, wish I`d seen them live.

Did see Wilko last year, with NWR on bass - now [b]that [/b]was R&B!

[Leon Transaxle]

I was just too young for punk being 12 in '77 and therefore reliant on my parents for buying records (although I did manage to convince them a copy of Pretty Vacant would be good).
Any punk articles on TV were never seen in our house and it was never on the radio that I was aware of (I'd never even heard of John Peel then).
My only real exposure was what the older (ie 14-15 year olds) played at the youth club and from a couple of kids at school who talked about it, but didn't dress like it (well not at school , and they lived miles away so I never saw what they wore out after then). 'God Save the Queen' seemed both seditious but sort of a joke at the same time. This was of course all based on seeing the lyrics written down I had not even heard it then. The radio never played it, the records shops in Colchester refused to play it and the youth club balked at letting the older kids play [b]that[/b].
Like others I was steered towards bass by the not quite punk JJ Burnell. The bass on 'In the Shadows' on the flip of 'No More Heroes' was thunderous and litterally sent vibrations through you bum and up your spine if you sat on an old radiogram while it played (but enough of that).
As far as bass goes my biggest influence of all time is Bruce Foxton. I lived the Jam. bought most singles on day of release and albums as soon as I could from Setting Sons onwards. Through this I went into the whole Mod revival thing (the Chords) but also stuff like the early Dead Kennedys (the bass work on Fresh Fruit also being quite an influence).
Then it just diversified. By the time I was in the sixth form it was Marillion, Motorhead, Magnum, The Enid, Fairport, and, above all at the time Twelfth Night ( who also followed the DIY ethic and were very non-elven for a prog rock band). I deliberately looked for the non-comercial and found Faust, Can, the more challenging King Crimson, Fred Frith etc. We turned our common room into a genuine alternative music universe before alt was even a genre.
Now I look at my CD and MP3 collection and I see I have filled in the gaps from those too young years. There is both "Never Mind the ..." and the demo version of the album with Matlock on bass, there is Clash, 999, Stranglers, SLF, Siouxie, Ramones. All of which I have bought out of choice at a far more recent date.
I have bought them because I think they were essential and they were something I missed out on.
There is energy, there is attitude but look beyond this and many cases there is musicianship as well.

When I visualise bass guitars I see three things:-
[indent=1]Sid with his P Bass[/indent]
[indent=1]The cover of 'London Calling'[/indent]
[indent=1]Bruce Foxton flying with his Rick on the back of 'The Modern World' .[/indent]

I was never a punk but it left a lasting impression none the less.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Leon Transaxle