Platypus Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1352944' date='Aug 26 2011, 07:56 PM']My mind is made up. Is going to The Gallery at the earliest opportunity [/quote] I would do that and ask Martin or John when whether a fret stone is going to get you where you want to be, or whether it needs a full refret. You probably won't wear them down quickly with the flats you have on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Id have it done. I guess it will take the icing of the cake when my Ray has to be done but its for playing not gathering dust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 No matter what anyone thinks, to the potential buyer a refret will devalue the bass slightly, which ironically means you're more likely to keep it long-term, and therefore a refret is both a mechanical/technical and anti-GAS investment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Let Martin take a look and go on his recommendation - if it's a 'player' then I'd definitely go for the full re-fret & health check option Having said that- if it's all 100% original and you picked it up specifically because it's a YOB bass then maybe keeping it 100% original and living some idiosyncrasies might all be part of the charm Edited August 26, 2011 by molan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I agree with most replies already posted. You said its a player, so make it playable. A collectable vintage bass loses a considerable portion of its value if its been refinished, half the buyers on the vintage market will already have discounted it, adding a refret is going make almost no further difference in value, in fact, if its done properly with period correct frets, and you retain the old frets in a bag in the case, then it may make no further depreciation at all, as it is a great playable instrument. I'd definitely do it if it was mine. If it was all 100% original, and in fantastic condition, i'd maybe advise otherwise, depending how unplayable it is of course, maybe just making the action a little higher would help. Go for it, and enjoy playing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinson Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I had the same dilemma with my 75. In the end took it to Martin, even got non standard vintage frets installed as i prefer them. Never looked back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1352709' date='Aug 26 2011, 04:47 PM']Petty clear consensus emerging here. I probably would be more circumspect if it were all-original but its not (as its a refin) so I am inclined to have Mr Petersen look over it. Thanks you all for helping clear up my thoughts[/quote] This.... plus I can't see the point of a gigging bass being unplayable. How far do you take 'untouched' anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1352912' date='Aug 26 2011, 07:23 PM']This. IMO, frets are like tyres on a vintage car.[/quote] Agreed.... would you pay more for a vintage Ferrari if it still had the original oil and spark plugs in the engine? Of course not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1354265' date='Aug 28 2011, 12:44 PM']Agreed.... would you pay more for a vintage Ferrari if it still had the original oil and spark plugs in the engine? Of course not![/quote] You clearly don't know the vintage car market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1354272' date='Aug 28 2011, 12:51 PM']You clearly don't know the vintage car market [/quote] I thought that the first time it was posted but held back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1354272' date='Aug 28 2011, 12:51 PM']....You clearly don't know the vintage car market....[/quote] And, it seems that many don't know the vintage guitar market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1354278' date='Aug 28 2011, 12:55 PM']I thought that the first time it was posted but held back [/quote] LOL, don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning it, and Clarky's certainly doing the right thing in getting a refret, it's just that collectors are not like normal people, and the suggestion that deviations from absolute originality aren't reflected in potential selling price doesn't hold water. For example, Clarky's bass might have a refin body and therefore refretting doesn't reduce it's value [i]as a vintage instrument[/i] substantially. However, if the neck finish, frets, board, tuners, retainer are all 100% original, it substantially devalues the neck, and let's face it, there will be a guy (probably in the US) who will pay £2000 for that neck to complete his all-original '63 YOB dream bass project (check eBay.com if you don't believe me)! Like I said, I'm not condoning it, but having dipped my toe into the pre-CBS water a while back, it's a funny world with a degree of obsession that should not be under-estimated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1352912' date='Aug 26 2011, 07:23 PM']This. IMO, frets are like tyres on a vintage car.[/quote] Without reading your post, this was the precise analogy I thought of. You wouldn't take your 1963 E Type out on 48 year-old tyres. Have he strings been changed since '63? Are they the same as the originals were? Get it re-fretted. With the appropriate size of frets for the year/model (no Jumbos or Mandolin frets) Keep the receipt for reference purposes, and carry on playing and enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 No they wouldn't drive an E type on it's old tyres, you would keep them to one side for shows/resale and use replica ones for road use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1354298' date='Aug 28 2011, 01:19 PM']No they wouldn't drive an E type on it's old tyres, you would keep them to one side for shows/resale and use replica ones for road use![/quote] Yep, that's the collector's way, no different to putting a Mighty Mite neck on the '63 to gig and putting the original neck (without reftret) back on to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 The fact is this bass has already to a large extent passed by the Market we are talking about in both the bass and classic car world which IMO is a good thing, I'd rather have the E type you can drive rather than lock away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1354287' date='Aug 28 2011, 01:06 PM']LOL, don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning it, and Clarky's certainly doing the right thing in getting a refret, it's just that collectors are not like normal people, and the suggestion that deviations from absolute originality aren't reflected in potential selling price doesn't hold water. For example, Clarky's bass might have a refin body and therefore refretting doesn't reduce it's value [i]as a vintage instrument[/i] substantially. However, if the neck finish, frets, board, tuners, retainer are all 100% original, it substantially devalues the neck, and let's face it, there will be a guy (probably in the US) who will pay £2000 for that neck to complete his all-original '63 YOB dream bass project (check eBay.com if you don't believe me)! Like I said, I'm not condoning it, but having dipped my toe into the pre-CBS water a while back, it's a funny world with a degree of obsession that should not be under-estimated [/quote] [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-1963-USA-Fender-P-BASS-NECK-TUNERS-Precision-/360388621539?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item53e8d5f4e3#ht_884wt_952"]http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-1963-USA-...e3#ht_884wt_952[/url] for example, and that's a knock-down price apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1354303' date='Aug 28 2011, 01:22 PM']The fact is this bass has already to a large extent passed by the Market we are talking about in both the bass and classic car world which IMO is a good thing, I'd rather have the E type you can drive rather than lock away [/quote] +100000, I saw a red E-Type on the M3 yesterday, and neither my enjoyment of watching it - or I suspect the owner's of driving it - were in anyway diminished by what I suspect were several deviations from original Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 He would not of been so happy if it were on bald original tyres though or if you had took the XK engine out a slipped a nice (mighty mite) diesel transit van engine in would he? For me it's would have to be in full working order (refret) or sold on as is, as it's already had a refin on the body if I liked everything else about it I'd keep it and have the work done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1354272' date='Aug 28 2011, 12:51 PM']You clearly don't know the vintage car market [/quote] Maybe not about the vintage car market (although actually, I do know a little about classic cars) but I do know a car with 48 year old oil and spark plugs would have had no maintenance at all, and wouldn't run.... And if it did fire up, it wouldn't run for long because oil deteriorates over time as an engine lubricant even if not used, so would probably prove to be useless! The point, I and a few others are trying to make is, that most people, IMHO, would rather pay more for a usable, well maintained and playable bass than one that is worn out but original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1354502' date='Aug 28 2011, 05:07 PM']Maybe not about the vintage car market (although actually, I do know a little about classic cars) but I do know a car with 48 year old oil and spark plugs would have had no maintenance at all, and wouldn't run.... And if it did fire up, it wouldn't run for long because oil deteriorates over time as an engine lubricant even if not used, so would probably prove to be useless! The point, I and a few others are trying to make is, that most people, IMHO, would rather pay more for a usable, well maintained and playable bass than one that is worn out but original.[/quote] Thats the crooks of it, If it were a Ferrari with its original tyres and spark plugs etc that had been in a sealed case all its life starting it up would be a bad idea but there is enough of a big paying market out there who would enjoy saying its got the original oil in it from the factory etc and have it as an ornament but in this case its already had a retrim and been 'previously enjoyed' (nice classic car term there for ya) so that market has sailed. Edited August 28, 2011 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1354265' date='Aug 28 2011, 12:44 PM']Agreed.... would you pay more for a vintage Ferrari if it still had the original oil and spark plugs in the engine? Of course not![/quote] I'm afraid this is not the case at all. The reality of the vintage market is simple, if an otherwise all original instrument has been re-fretted, then it is worth less....fact. Many collectors only buy 100% original instruments, especially the rarer ones, so a re-fretted instrument would probably lose 50% of its buyers market. If it already has originality issues, particularly regarding finish, then a re-fret will alter the value marginally, if at all though. To relate it to your post, if a vintage ferrari had original plugs, then it would certainly be worth more. If it had original tyres, then again, worth more, i think its an obvious no-brainer personally. Same logic applies to any antiques, which is what these instruments are. With any collectable antique, there are; well used examples; examples with originality issues; examples that comprise of parts from different items put together; there are restored examples, and there are fine condition, all original examples. Values are relative to all this, and will reflect every single permutation. If a bass is a refin'd player, and the owner wants to continue playing it, then it needs to be playable, whether thats re-fretting, new pickups or whatever. I would always advise keeping original components in the case, as it may help to re-sell, should that need arise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1354502' date='Aug 28 2011, 05:07 PM']Maybe not about the vintage car market (although actually, I do know a little about classic cars) but I do know a car with 48 year old oil and spark plugs would have had no maintenance at all, and wouldn't run.... And if it did fire up, it wouldn't run for long because oil deteriorates over time as an engine lubricant even if not used, so would probably prove to be useless![/quote] I don't think anyone's disputing that, but utility and collectibility are different things. [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1354502' date='Aug 28 2011, 05:07 PM']The point, I and a few others are trying to make is, that most people, IMHO, would rather pay more for a usable, well maintained and playable bass than one that is worn out but original.[/quote] No, they wouldn't, not in the vintage market. Again, check eBay if you need evidence. Simply put, the words 'all original' = bucks. Irrespective of playability, tone etc, an all original instrument will, in nearly all, cases sell for far more than a potentially substantially better - but non-original - player's instrument of the same vintage. Don't get me wrong, I own two non-original 70's Precision, both of which are 100% players' instruments but worthless as collectors' pieces, so I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your posts, just trying to convey the reality of the collectors' world against that of the players' world. Clarky's original post I believe was written in the context of both, hence the debate. [quote name='Rick's Fine '52' post='1354577' date='Aug 28 2011, 05:55 PM']I'm afraid this is not the case at all. The reality of the vintage market is simple, if an otherwise all original instrument has been re-fretted, then it is worth less....fact. Many collectors only buy 100% original instruments, especially the rarer ones, so a re-fretted instrument would probably lose 50% of its buyers market. If it already has originality issues, particularly regarding finish, then a re-fret will alter the value marginally, if at all though. To relate it to your post, if a vintage ferrari had original plugs, then it would certainly be worth more. If it had original tyres, then again, worth more, i think its an obvious no-brainer personally. Same logic applies to any antiques, which is what these instruments are. With any collectable antique, there are; well used examples; examples with originality issues; examples that comprise of parts from different items put together; there are restored examples, and there are fine condition, all original examples. Values are relative to all this, and will reflect every single permutation. If a bass is a refin'd player, and the owner wants to continue playing it, then it needs to be playable, whether thats re-fretting, new pickups or whatever. I would always advise keeping original components in the case, as it may help to re-sell, should that need arise.[/quote] I think that sums it up nicely, and I suspect the author has some experience in the area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) My wife has a vintage husband. All-original, apparently he is worthless to any collector in current state and she is keen to have him modded for maximum playability Edited August 28, 2011 by Clarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1354679' date='Aug 28 2011, 07:43 PM']My wife has a vintage husband. All-original, apparently he is worthless to any collector in current state and she is keen to have him modded for maximum playability[/quote] I wouldn't change anything about you mate Seriously, and in case my incoherent ramblings above could have been misconstrued, get that neck re-fretted and enjoy playing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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