Tonewoods

[Mikeg]

im a tad confused as to what tonewoods actualy are. im guesing that they are higher quality and more resonant that normal hardwoods. But how does this work?
Also if i were to go down to my local sawmill and ask for quartersawn ash, would it be good for making a bass out of?
Cheers
Mike

[Hamster]

A bit about wood - [url="http://www.warmoth.com/Bass/Options/WoodDescriptions.aspx"]http://www.warmoth.com/Bass/Options/WoodDescriptions.aspx[/url]

[GarethFlatlands]

Mmmm, Indian Rosewood tele....

[risingson]

My rule: if it sounds good, then it doesn't matter what it's made of! Different kinds of wood do sound different and I do have my preferences but I doubt any of the audience I play to will be able to tell the difference anyway.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='risingson' post='1316327' date='Jul 25 2011, 09:32 PM']My rule: if it sounds good, then it doesn't matter what it's made of! Different kinds of wood do sound different and I do have my preferences but I doubt any of the audience I play to will be able to tell the difference anyway.[/quote]

I agree with that. If it sounds good, it is good.

I used to have a Gibson Les Paul bass (mahogany) with a Fender 51 Reissue (alder) as backup. Couple of tweaks on the eq, same sound. Though have to admit, without the tweaks, the Les Paul was waaayyyyy deeper and richer sounding, sortof sat underneath everything, rather than within the mix.

[dc2009]

I think wood is important, but IME wood quality is infinitely more important than the actual wood you use!

I would also say that for most players, you should pick a wood that weighs right with the neck and fretboard (where realistically you should be more concerned with wood choice) and you can pick from a bunch tone wise if you have a bunch that suit weight (and perhaps look) wise.

[Mikeg]

So would wood from my local sawmill be rubbish for guitar making?

[dc2009]

[quote name='Mikeg' post='1316677' date='Jul 26 2011, 09:40 AM']So would wood from my local sawmill be rubbish for guitar making?[/quote]

Bass/guitar wood needs curing time (or whatever you wanna call it). I'm not convinced this is the same as what it is for the mainstream wood market - might be worth finding out. I seem to recall a BGM issue years back had a detailed description of the warwick wood preparation times.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Mikeg' post='1316208' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:37 PM']im a tad confused as to what tonewoods actualy are. im guesing that they are higher quality and more resonant that normal hardwoods. But how does this work?
Also if i were to go down to my local sawmill and ask for quartersawn ash, would it be good for making a bass out of?
Cheers
Mike[/quote]
Tonewoods are a marketing ploy to get you to spend more money.

[Muzz]

They can certainly look nice...


See my other posts about my very very similar sounding ash/maple/maple/corian P and my maple/wenge/wenge/brass Fortress...I can't be arsed typing it all out again...

[tauzero]

They all sound the same. Just get the one that looks nicest.

[CHRISDABASS]

This is what tone woods are all about (skip to the 3 minute mark)

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmFSivO5Tuk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmFSivO5Tuk[/url]

[BigRedX]

IMO for the purposes of a solid electric guitar or bass a tonewood is any wood that has the required strength to make an instrument out of. Everything else regarding the tonal characteristics is entirely subjective and ultimately in the overall scheme of things fairly minimal in its contribution.

The other thing that many people forget is when specifying species of woods is that every board is going to be different. Wood is from a living thing and is subject to massive variations due to environmental conditions while growing and rate of growth to name just two. Just because your favourite instrument is made from a particular type of wood doesn't mean that you can replicate it's sound with another piece of wood from the same species of tree.

[dc2009]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1316926' date='Jul 26 2011, 12:55 PM']The other thing that many people forget is when specifying species of woods is that every board is going to be different. Wood is from a living thing and is subject to massive variations due to environmental conditions while growing and rate of growth to name just two. Just because your favourite instrument is made from a particular type of wood doesn't mean that you can replicate it's sound with another piece of wood from the same species of tree.[/quote]

Though selecting the same species from the same forest/region ideally from a tree of similar age will get you fairly close.

[muttley]

The following has probably been written loads of times on MI forums but I'll write it anyway.

What we hear as the sonic character of an electric bass is essentially the harmonic structure of a vibrating string as "measured" (to use instrumentation terminology) by whatever pickup(s) is/are fitted (disregarding any influence of electronics downstream of the pickup). As any Acoustics Engineer will tell you, the manner in which any non-rigid body vibrates is a function of 1. the structure of that body including its own acoustic impedance, 2. its end conditions and 3. the method of excitation.

Item 1 is the string, so we'll forget about that for a minute as that's another can of worms. Also, a string has such a small surface area and high mass relative to that surface area that when vibrating in air we can ignore any contribution by its acoustic impedance.

Item 2 is dominated by the structure of the instrument. The string is not terminated by an infinitely rigid structure so its end conditions are complex (both in the general and mathematical sense). Material choice will have an influence here, but so will the method of construction. Also, we must not ignore the player. Take a bass and record the sounds of open and fretted (ie stopped) strings. Then remove the frets and record the same sounds. It is unlikely that the open string sound will be greatly affected, but the stopped string sound will be very different. Why? Because one of the end conditions have changed. This is an extreme example of course but it goes some way to explaining the differences that we experience. In practice, different players' fingers will have different characteristics so even a fretted note with a string plucked by a machine and no vibrato will sound different between players.

Item 3 is the method of excitation, in other words how the string is plucked. Lots of variables here, hence lots of variation in sound.

All this is before we have considered type, number and position of pickups.

I would suggest that, all other things being equal, that material and structure (ie method of construction) are equally important in influencing the sound of an instrument. However, in real life, those "other things" are not equal. [i]Vive la difference[/i], as someone once said.

[Mikeg]

I heard that a sawmill near me might be selling kiln dried ash in varying sizes, im temped to go get some.

[Adrenochrome]

... a myth

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Muzz' post='1316825' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:38 AM']They can certainly look nice... [/quote]

Yeah it's funny how people buy 'tone woods' based on how good they look.

[dc2009]

[quote name='Mikeg' post='1317018' date='Jul 26 2011, 01:37 PM']I heard that a sawmill near me might be selling kiln dried ash in varying sizes, im temped to go get some.[/quote]

I'm sure it'll be fine, but IIRC bass wood is air dried rather than kiln. No idea on the difference it makes, though you may like to find out.

[jmsjabb]

All furniture wood is cut ( planked ) and left in stick to air dry for approx three years. It goes through the kiln at the last min and then is sold out at a moisture percentage the furniture industry requires. We buy loads of oak and ash for furniture making and it is all very stable for furniture making, so when we make a table or cabinet and deliver it in, it doesn't move too much.
Ideally, a good piece of wood would be one cut years ago, air dried, kiln dried and kept inside for years to get it very very stable. A kiln is only good so far. Beyond the limit, you destroy the molecular structure of the timber. I have some ash and cherry in my loft, just sitting there ready for one day.
Air drying alone will take many many years.

In terms of sound, the more dense woods ( walnut, maple etc ) will give a sharper, crisper, more accurate sound rather than softer woods such as pine, balsa, etc which will give a warmer, less crisp, less accurate sound. Less defined.
Let's say you had a plank of maple at 18" x 6" x 1" and another of quick grow pine. If you hit both with a hammer, they would sound different. Mahogany and alder are relatively grainless, relatively dense and easy to use, therefore are a good timber of choice for a 'standard' guitar.
It isn't myth at all, timber choice does play a part in the sound.

[jmsjabb]

All furniture wood is cut ( planked ) and left in stick to air dry for approx three years. It goes through the kiln at the last min and then is sold out at a moisture percentage the furniture industry requires. We buy loads of oak and ash for furniture making and it is all very stable for furniture making, so when we make a table or cabinet and deliver it in, it doesn't move too much.
Ideally, a good piece of wood would be one cut years ago, air dried, kiln dried and kept inside for years to get it very very stable. A kiln is only good so far. Beyond the limit, you destroy the molecular structure of the timber. I have some ash and cherry in my loft, just sitting there ready for one day.
Air drying alone will take many many years.

In terms of sound, the more dense woods ( walnut, maple etc ) will give a sharper, crisper, more accurate sound rather than softer woods such as pine, balsa, etc which will give a warmer, less crisp, less accurate sound. Less defined.
Let's say you had a plank of maple at 18" x 6" x 1" and another of quick grow pine. If you hit both with a hammer, they would sound different. Mahogany and alder are relatively grainless, relatively dense and easy to use, therefore are a good timber of choice for a 'standard' guitar.
It isn't myth at all, timber choice does play a part in the sound.

[Marvin]

[quote name='silddx' post='1316803' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:21 AM']Tonewoods are a marketing ploy to get you to spend more money.[/quote]
Philistine! Tonewoods give an instrument a unique 'core tone' and well you know it. I expected much more from you

[jmsjabb]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1317486' date='Jul 26 2011, 07:16 PM']You should check out The threads over on TB where someone took a bass recorded it and then transfered the Pups and neck onto a lump of "Lumber" and then recorded it. He done other ones regarding necks and and fretboards.

It may make a difference but the so will the pups, the strings , fingers or pick, how and where you pluck. Then your FX then your Amp then the Cab.

Then of course if it's being recoeded . Di or Mic. What Mic what position, what room even.

Didn't Dano even use stuff that is like MDF?[/quote]
I am not disputing the facts you suggest, I fully agree pups, strings, player, weather, paint, carpet, curtains, moisturiser cream brand all effect the sound, it's just timber is also one factor in that overall sound.

[mrdreadful]

My favourite six-string is made of plywood. I replaced the crappy stock pickups with decent ones and it sounds fantastic. I bought another plywood LP copy off eBay recently and that also sounds great, even with the stock electronics still in.

Just goes to show that 'tonewood' ain't as important as people think.

[Wil]

My go to bass is plywood. It sounds great - I'm pretty convinced most of it's tonal character comes from the pickups and pickup placement.