Robert Manning Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hello everyone. I've been using old fashion designs like fender/rickenbacker/Gibson. I use this stuff because of the look, and stigma each design has with it. And a precision with one sound I think is so versatile anyway, as the sound compliments many styles of music. But, I'm wondering... What am I missing? Will owning an overwater or something make my playing any better (easier) ? What are the advantages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerley Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 It could make your playing easier or could make it harder. All depends on the neck profile, setup of the bass and overall feel. Most basses can be setup to be pretty close to each other to suit how you like it, the neck profile and overall feel (balance, weight etc,.) can't really be changed. So if the 'older' basses are more suited to you then they are better and vice versa. Only you can say which. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 If you're happy with your gear then you're not missing anything. Plenty of people will pile in & tell you xxxx is the best bass you could use, but the only way to find out is to try a load of different basses for yourself & see if active electronics, different neck profiles, more strings etc. make a positive difference to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I agree on the vibe that classic instruments have, seeing all your heroes playing them makes them a wonder to behold if you get one eventually. But, this doesn't mean they are the best instruments available. Playing something modern can give you a different insight into your playing and may indeed make life easier for you, it depends if you're already content with what you have - if so then perhaps GAS is making itself known . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 All the benefits of older instruments but none of the disadvantages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 While some of your sound is in your fingers and note choices, if you want to find your own voice on the bass you're probably going to find it harder if you play the same 50 year old designs as everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Manning Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 What inspired to make this post: i was practising a solo for my grade 8 piece. i was thinking of the players like ganek,wooten, etc. and there modern crafted basses. do the advances in technology alow you to play for longer with ease, i ask myself. my problem is.. there are very few modern instruments that appeal to me in terms of looks. and always feel you cant pin down a distinct voice from something like those bases. but i'm very serious on becoming the best bass player i can be. any recommendations out there of modern basses that have a bit of a unique tone to them? and thanks for the feedback guys! rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think as well here, is that, if for example you love the sound of a Precision, playing any bass that doesn`t sound like one, new or old, may put you off - it did me, when I tried a Jazz, great bass, but just didn`t sound right. So trying a modern bass that has Precision tone-qualities/ability - well that may be how you can decide on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Manning Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='Lozz196' post='1234041' date='May 17 2011, 10:29 AM']I think as well here, is that, if for example you love the sound of a Precision, playing any bass that doesn`t sound like one, new or old, may put you off - it did me, when I tried a Jazz, great bass, but just didn`t sound right. So trying a modern bass that has Precision tone-qualities/ability - well that may be how you can decide on this.[/quote] That's a good point! Our ears do become accustomed to sounds and make friends. Any thing different you subcoubsionly dislike. Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The best (scientifically speaking) way to find out if you're missing anything is to try it. Buy a "modern" bass (whatever that means to you), attend a bass bash and try some stuff out or go to a shop. Will it make you play any better? I doubt it - not directly anyway. A correct set up will make playing easier because you're expending less energy/time forcing the instrument to do what you want but it's up to you to translate that into better playing. It's all in the set up to be honest. Unless the instrument is a duffer or your ergonomic requirements are particularly esoteric then it can be set up to accommodate you. Of course, spending lots of pennies on a bass will have you believing it's the best thing ever, but if it isn't the best thing ever then the truth will eventually become apparent. I don't think age of instrument has hee haw to do with anything, it's either well made or it isn't. Assuming it is well made then it's either well set up (for you) or it isn't. Also don't get hung up on "stigma". I play Gibson basses. I play them because I like them. Deep down I think part of the attraction is that not many people care for them. Keeps the prices down if nothing else If I cared what other people think because I play basses made by the pariah of the bass world, I'd never leave the house with one (or admit to owning one, never mind three (and a half if you count the Epi LP)). All the haters, while entitled to their opinion, can jog on. Looks of course are completely up to the individual. I doubt you'll catch me with a Big Al, tempting though the 3 pickup madness is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 It entirely depends what you want out of the instruments you play. IMO an instrument has to do 3 things: look good, produce sounds that are appropriate to the music you are playing, and allow you to play what you want with the least amount of restrictions (so the limiting factor is your technical ability not the instrument design). If the instruments you have a tick all those boxes then perhaps you don't need to look any further... ... Except the music that was made possible by those "classic" guitars and basses from the 50s and 60s was forward looking. Those musicians took what what was already an innovative concept and pushed it even further creating sounds and ways of playing that the designers at Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker had never even considered. Why shouldn't we as musicians and performers still be pushing forward against those boundaries today? Just as the early electric guitars and basses built on what had gone before combining traditional luthiery with more modern electronics, the designs that have come since carry this on, each modern luthier/manufacturer taking what they consider to be good from the past and improving what they consider needs improving. There are unfortunately a lot of very bland and unimaginative modern basses, but there are also very many that are just as radical when compared with their contemporaries as the basses of Fender Gibson and Rickenbacker were back in the 50s and 60s. There's also the myth that the original basses of the 50s and 60s (especially the Fender P) fit effortlessly into the mix. However if you listen to 50s rock n roll where music was on the cusp of moving from the upright bass to the electric bass, you'll notice that the overall sounds and arrangements changed as the bass part moved from one instrument to the other. The Fender bass didn't simply slot into the space left by the upright bass but forced the overall sound to change to accommodate it. And now we've had 50+ years to get used to that "new" sound and how the other instruments should sound to fit around it. I think also the musicians of the 60s and 70s who had embraced these new instruments and the music that they made possible would be disappointed by some the attitudes displayed by "rock" musicians today. They were the originators, working outside of the mainstream - rebel artists and most definitely not part of the establishment. While today there are still "rock" musicians with that forwards looking pioneering attitude they are very much in the minority. Back in the 70s when I was getting into "rock" music anyone who had a liking for music made 50 years earlier was either making some kind of ironic statement or in the words of the day 'completely square'! Back to the main point of the OP. You state that you like the basses of Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker who each produced very different looking sounding and playing instruments. If your tastes are versatile to encompass all of these then there is really no reason why there shouldn't be more modern designs that appeal to you too and by that I mean brand new designs, not just the ones that have made small incremental improvements to the "classics". Get out there and play everything you can get your hands on. The only things that matter are whether you like how it looks and sounds and that the instrument doesn't compromise your playing style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='Robert Manning' post='1234033' date='May 17 2011, 10:22 AM']........but i'm very serious on becoming the best bass player i can be. any recommendations out there of modern basses that have a bit of a unique tone to them? and thanks for the feedback guys! rob[/quote] Most distinctive sounding are probably Alembic, early Status (and to a lesser extent the modern ones), Kubicki, Fodera, Goodfellow, Dingwall, Warwick... I'm sure I've missed many, the list goes on because each bass has it's own sound. I chose Status 5 stringers because they fit my hands perfectly, the low B has more clarity than a wood necked bass (except probably a fanned fret bass) and the modern ones don't have such a distinctly Status sound. But they seem to be one of the most unfashionable basses on Basschat because everyone associates them with Mark King's typewriter slap style. I don't play slap and don't like a toppy clattery sound, as a result I don't sound like most Status players, it's more of a super Jazz bass sound but with the extra clarity of a graphite neck. [quote name='Lozz196' post='1234041' date='May 17 2011, 10:29 AM']I think as well here, is that, if for example you love the sound of a Precision, playing any bass that doesn`t sound like one, new or old, may put you off - it did me, when I tried a Jazz, great bass, but just didn`t sound right. So trying a modern bass that has Precision tone-qualities/ability - well that may be how you can decide on this.[/quote] I've come to the conclusion that you can't make a modern bass sound like a traditional one or vice versa, so the Status does the bulk of the work but when I want a classic P bass sound, or a Stingray or a Jazz then that's what I play. I would say if a classic bass sound works for you then go for it, as long as you've tried the alternatives and ruled them out purely on sound and playability rather than just image or because it's what everyone else plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Manning Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='BigRedX' post='1234057' date='May 17 2011, 10:44 AM']It entirely depends what you want out of the instruments you play. IMO an instrument has to do 3 things: look good, produce sounds that are appropriate to the music you are playing, and allow you to play what you want with the least amount of restrictions (so the limiting factor is your technical ability not the instrument design). If the instruments you have a tick all those boxes then perhaps you don't need to look any further... ... Except the music that was made possible by those "classic" guitars and basses from the 50s and 60s was forward looking. Those musicians took what what was already an innovative concept and pushed it even further creating sounds and ways of playing that the designers at Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker had never even considered. Why shouldn't we as musicians and performers still be pushing forward against those boundaries today? Just as the early electric guitars and basses built on what had gone before combining traditional luthiery with more modern electronics, the designs that have come since carry this on, each modern luthier/manufacturer taking what they consider to be good from the past and improving what they consider needs improving. There are unfortunately a lot of very bland and unimaginative modern basses, but there are also very many that are just as radical when compared with their contemporaries as the basses of Fender Gibson and Rickenbacker were back in the 50s and 60s. There's also the myth that the original basses of the 50s and 60s (especially the Fender P) fit effortlessly into the mix. However if you listen to 50s rock n roll where music was on the cusp of moving from the upright bass to the electric bass, you'll notice that the overall sounds and arrangements changed as the bass part moved from one instrument to the other. The Fender bass didn't simply slot into the space left by the upright bass but forced the overall sound to change to accommodate it. And now we've had 50+ years to get used to that "new" sound and how the other instruments should sound to fit around it. I think also the musicians of the 60s and 70s who had embraced these new instruments and the music that they made possible would be disappointed by some the attitudes displayed by "rock" musicians today. They were the originators, working outside of the mainstream - rebel artists and most definitely not part of the establishment. While today there are still "rock" musicians with that forwards looking pioneering attitude they are very much in the minority. Back in the 70s when I was getting into "rock" music anyone who had a liking for music made 50 years earlier was either making some kind of ironic statement or in the words of the day 'completely square'! Back to the main point of the OP. You state that you like the basses of Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker who each produced very different looking sounding and playing instruments. If your tastes are versatile to encompass all of these then there is really no reason why there shouldn't be more modern designs that appeal to you too and by that I mean brand new designs, not just the ones that have made small incremental improvements to the "classics". Get out there and play everything you can get your hands on. The only things that matter are whether you like how it looks and sounds and that the instrument doesn't compromise your playing style.[/quote] thanks guys! wise words there. ive taken note... Im going to tray and find some new designs out there, are there any places in the south of england sporting these type of models? i was looking in bass mag, i saw a GUS on the front cover... i like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 If you're happy with a Precision then stay with the Precision. If you want to add different/modern sounds then I'd suggest that you get a preamp, like the Sadowsky Bass Preamp. [url="http://www.sadowsky.com/accessories/preamp.html"]http://www.sadowsky.com/accessories/preamp.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycrowave Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Who says you can't have both? Try a jazz with a jretro preamp, modern or vintage at the flick of a switch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='Robert Manning' post='1234033' date='May 17 2011, 10:22 AM']What inspired to make this post: i was practising a solo for my grade 8 piece. i was thinking of the players like ganek,wooten, etc. and there modern crafted basses. do the advances in technology alow you to play for longer with ease, i ask myself.[/quote] But then,Janek uses a Precision for a lot of gigs. Having a fancy modern bass won't make you a better player-it may inspire you but it won't,by itself,improve your playing. Look at someone like Jeff Berlin.OK,some people don't like his music but you can't argue about his technical facility on the instrument. He uses a pretty basic and relatively inexpensive Dean bass with passive electronics-he wouldn't be any better,technically,on a Fodera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Manning Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1234081' date='May 17 2011, 11:05 AM']But then,Janek uses a Precision for a lot of gigs. Having a fancy modern bass won't make you a better player-it may inspire you but it won't,by itself,improve your playing. Look at someone like Jeff Berlin.OK,some people don't like his music but you can't argue about his technical facility on the instrument. He uses a pretty basic and relatively inexpensive Dean bass with passive electronics-he wouldn't be any better,technically,on a Fodera.[/quote] true true... i was also thinking.. i don't own any basses that don't neck dive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I don't think modern basses are any [i]easier[/i] to play than vintage ones. I think the overall sound of bass guitars has changed, but as for actual ease and comfort? I don't think so. Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Janek Gwizdala and Victor Wooten both own Fender basses, as does Marcus Miller. It's about using the appropriate instrument for the project. You don't need a Fodera to be a great player. Freddie Washington has spent the last few years touring with Steely Dan playing a Precision. You won't get more modern playing than "Ready" Freddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1234081' date='May 17 2011, 11:05 AM']Having a fancy modern bass won't make you a better player-it may inspire you but it won't,by itself,improve your playing.[/quote] Actually depending on what and how you play it might. For instance if you're playing beyond the 12th fret a through neck or heelless set neck design can make it easier as you're not having to fight against a bulky neck joint. There are plenty of ways that the "classic" designs can be improved. How worthwhile they are to a player depends on what they want to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Manning Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Curiosity i setting in now! Might but a post on the for sale section seeing if anyone wants to swap for my stingray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='Robert Manning' post='1234096' date='May 17 2011, 11:14 AM']....Might but a post on the for sale section seeing if anyone wants to swap for my stingray!....[/quote] Just a view but, looking at your gear, the Stingray is the only bass I'd keep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='Machines' post='1234002' date='May 17 2011, 09:54 AM']....seeing all your heroes playing them makes them a wonder to behold if you get one eventually. But, this doesn't mean they are the best instruments available.[/quote] Yeah, thanks Chris & Geddy for making me waste money on a couple of bloody Rickenbackers only to find out they're atrociously made & really uncomfortable to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I'll open a can of worms here but, if you follow the rules of evolution then a new bass should always be better than an old bass. I'll reinforce my argument by saying that these basses should be comparable, so a 1962 Jazz isn't comparable to even a US Jazz anymore. I'd argue that an early Fender bass was actually a custom-shop build using the latest state of the art techniques. So, comparable to let's say a Sadowsky in real terms, i.e. the way it was designed, built, comparable cost etc. Edited May 17, 2011 by largo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote name='largo' post='1234113' date='May 17 2011, 11:31 AM']if you follow the rules of evolution then a new bass should always be better than an old bass.[/quote] But only very slightly, and only after hundreds of thousands of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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