Lightweight = Lightsound

[thebassman]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1226839' date='May 10 2011, 10:27 PM']Thats where I was going wrong for so many years. Pesky treble guitars.[/quote]

That's it, you want to get one of those big upright basses..... That's what you call a mans bass

Edited May 10, 2011 by thebassman

[Balcro]

So the OP set out to generate a little controversy. Succeeded didn't he.

There must obviously be an element of psycho-acoustics involved, as we all have "that sound" in our heads. We've remembered something from from days of yore. And it was good (biblical, not a grammatical and).

Fashions in sound change like clothes but over a much longer period of time. Compared with the 60's and 70's, the trendy sound has moved from a vinyl to a CD sound. It's certainly less boomy, but at the same time the idea is still to have plenty of "welly". I think that is what Alex was saying. If you can achieve the same ends with a weight reduction, so be it. I really don't see it as better or worse, it's just different.

If you change just one element of a loudspeaker/cabinet, then the sound will change. Change the shape of the box, put fewer baraces inside, change the thickness of the wood or change from 18mm Baltic Birch to Poplar or MDF, each and every design change will produce a change in sound. They all resonate differently and are transparent to different wavelengths of sound.

Neodymium for magnets. Shame about the Chinese securing control of the bulk of the world supply. A great weight saver. I've no idea why they might sound different, but ferrite pick-up cores seem to produce a different sound to Alnico. Anyone got any ideas?

When you've gone through all that upheaval to save your back, you can go out and buy an effects unit with "loudspeaker modelling" pre-sets in order to put you back where you started. Huh!


[i]alexclaber-
Ironically I've never really cared how much cabs weigh, indeed I've been known to voluntarily lift heavy things in the name of exercise - but it's gratifying that those with knackered backs or other ailments can keep gigging because our cabs happen to be light. But the goal has always been real bottom, not that fake compressed and technically distorted mid-bass that so many smaller rigs use to try to fill the bottom with varying degrees of success.[/i]

I couldn't agree more.

Balcro.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Balcro

[Musicman20]

Re: ceramic, they won't ever totally disappear. Just like tubes, there will always be a market.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1226463' date='May 10 2011, 05:21 PM']Or not. They're also sensible enough to know that the only thing that differentiates heavy gear from lightweight is that heavy gear weighs more.
Moot. All that proves is that you prefer one recording to another. [b]A recording is only as accurate as the gear it was recorded with and listened to on[/b].[/quote]

And how good the room it was made in sounded at the time it was made......

[Bloc Riff Nut]

Talking about rooms - I was working at Philips in Eindhoven,Holland last year, and they had aroom for testing speakers.
It had a door that was nearly a metre thick and on the inside it had foam-like pyramids attatched to its surface. The walls and ceiling were the same. It had a wire-mesh floor with more foamy-pyramids beneath that.

The wierd thing about it was when the door was closed it was like removing one of your five senses(hearing of course), goose-bumps! And when someone spoke there was nearly no volume to it, the sound they made just sort of fell away, even when they were standing only a few feet away. A vey spooky experience. But it does go to show how much of what we hear has already bounced off something else and isn't going straight from the driver and into our ears.

It was at the Philips Experimental Campus, Mr. Claber, you'd have loved it in there!

[charic]

very jealous!

Funnily enough go into a room like that and turn off the lights aswell. Then you'll really feel it!

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='charic' post='1227048' date='May 11 2011, 06:32 AM'] very jealous!

Funnily enough go into a room like that and turn off the lights aswell. Then you'll really feel it![/quote]
There's a pub near me that has just this sort of atmosphere. I'll suggest they change their name to The Brüel and Kjær. Or the Vacuum and Flask.

[4-string-thing]

I wonder how much of this is down to the aesthetics of it?

I played in a band til a few months ago where the 2 guitard, sorry ham-fisted meatheads, each had a 200w Blackstar half stack. I could no doubt have used a small, lightweight rig and have been heard loud and clear and sounded great, but (in some peoples eyes) this just wouldn't have looked right on a stage. So, I ended up using a 2x15 and a 2x10 just so my rig "looked the part"

I lug heavy drums of cable around at work all day, so a bass rig is not really a problem yet, but I wonder how many bass players suffer in silence moving big heavy gear just because of their guitarists arrogance and never even think about trying a lightweight rig?

I'm glad to say, I've left the band and am looking forward to playing in a band where the guitarist uses a 1x12 50w combo, and I can use something a bit more sensible!

[lojo]

My problem is I used heavy orange cabs and I have never heard anything lighter sound as good, to be fair I still am yet to and keen to hear a barefaced

Lightweight heads though do the job, I think its a fair debate with cabs, there are some lightweight sounding light cabs, but equally some duff old heavy ones

[Muzz]

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1227039' date='May 11 2011, 05:34 AM']Talking about rooms - I was working at Philips in Eindhoven,Holland last year, and they had aroom for testing speakers.
It had a door that was nearly a metre thick and on the inside it had foam-like pyramids attatched to its surface. The walls and ceiling were the same. It had a wire-mesh floor with more foamy-pyramids beneath that.

The wierd thing about it was when the door was closed it was like removing one of your five senses(hearing of course), goose-bumps! And when someone spoke there was nearly no volume to it, the sound they made just sort of fell away, even when they were standing only a few feet away. A vey spooky experience. But it does go to show how much of what we hear has already bounced off something else and isn't going straight from the driver and into our ears.

It was at the Philips Experimental Campus, Mr. Claber, you'd have loved it in there![/quote]

That'd be an anechoic chamber - they've got one of those at Salford Uni. I went round as a precursor to starting a degree in electroacoustics about a zillion years ago.

It is, as you say, a surreal experience, and one that fundamentally changed the way I thought about sound transmission, and why I don't stress about cabs and amps (especially for live work) half as much as I do about basses - the amp and cab are so much at the mercy of the room/venue, it's a miracle if I can get the same sound twice.

[dincz]

My voice coil doesn't care where the magnetic field comes from, so I'm all for weight reduction in cabs.

[chris_b]

Heavy cabs sounding better is a myth that's been doing the rounds at least since the 60's. To this end, Bill Wyman is reputed to have filled the bottom of one of his cabs with concrete to improve the sound. Guess what? Apart from several sprained roadies he found there was no difference.

Cabs just have to be rigid. Bracing is complicated, expensive and time consuming to manufacture compared to thicker, heavier wood panels which is why mass produced cabs were always heavy.

If the myth is true then the heaviest cabs on the market should sound the best? Bassoon made some monsters and went out of business last year so I guess heavy isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Properly braced cabs can be as light as you like without impacting the sound.

[Beedster]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1227283' date='May 11 2011, 11:07 AM']If the myth is true then the heaviest cabs on the market should sound the best?[/quote]
Why am I thinking 'Peavey'

[thodrik]

As a 24 year old male with no physical disabilities, I have never really been taken in by the argument that any piece of bass gear weighing over 12 lbs is just too heavy to be considered as a purchase.

I think that lighter cabinets are awesome, you could barely move the old Trace Elliot cabinets. The new Trace Elliot cabinets are a lot lighter and still sound good. I'm not a techincal expert but I'm sure that a well designed lightweight 4x10 is capable of sounding as good as a heavier 4x10 cabinet. Of course this can depend on the design and construction of the cabinet itself. A bad cabinet is a bad cabinet regardless of weight.

In terms of amps, the quality of sound is dependant on design and personal preference rather than weight. I am not overly keen on minature class D type amps, as I generally prefer the sound of my hybrid mosfet amps, but then again I prefer the sound of my own amps to an Ampeg SVT classic. Using the 'Bass Gear Weight Logic', then therefore should I declare that all mosfet amps are the best, or that simply that I really rate the EBS Fafner and Mesa Walkabout?

Also is it really surprising that in a side by side comparison, a secondhand all valve Trace Elliot played through an Eden [u]4x10[/u] sounded 'bigger' than a brand new ultra-modern, compact and easily transportable [u]2x10[/u] Markbass combo? I have to go now and check to see if my five string bass has a bigger range than my four string Precision. :-)

[51m0n]

[quote name='thodrik' post='1227294' date='May 11 2011, 11:17 AM']As a 24 year old male with no physical disabilities, I have never really been taken in by the argument that any piece of bass gear weighing over 12 lbs is just too heavy to be considered as a purchase.[/quote]

When I was 21 I had the same attitude. One silly overconfident cockup later and I've been helping various osteopaths' pension plans for the better part of 20 years.

Be careful out there all of you who like the heavy gear, a truly knackered back is for life, not just for christmas....

[thodrik]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1227377' date='May 11 2011, 12:13 PM']When I was 21 I had the same attitude. One silly overconfident cockup later and I've been helping various osteopaths' pension plans for the better part of 20 years.

Be careful out there all of you who like the heavy gear, a truly knackered back is for life, not just for christmas....[/quote]

Ow! Sorry to hear that. I don't think any of my stuff is actually 'heavy'. I have never owned an all valve amp, 8x10 or one of those 4x10s that weigh about 100lbs. Mind you, I'm turning 25 next week so I'll have to be careful anyway! Most of the heavier gear really requires two people to lift it.