bassbloke Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I love my Monster cables. Then again, I got them on special when Andertons were flogging them for 50% after buying all of the ex-UK distributor's stock. Granted, they were around £30 each, but I've had them for over 7 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 [quote name='dlloyd' post='138721' date='Feb 12 2008, 10:45 AM']You know, I swear I've read that before... Might have been in a Bass Player mag review for some directional cable that costs over a hundred quid. I don't think I ever got to the end of the review, it struck me as a waste of effort to read it any longer. How can a jack to jack cable be directional?[/quote] The PWaves ones are. Because the outer shield is supposed to be grounded at the amp end, it suppresses noise better if you use it in the correct orientation QED (that's a little hi fi cable joke!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 [quote name='tauzero' post='138870' date='Feb 12 2008, 02:17 PM']They're already doing it [url="http://www.fuel-optimiser.co.uk/how.html"]for petrol[/url] and obviously have managed to make a profit on it...[/quote] Mmmm Fossilised Snake oil treatments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='139270' date='Feb 13 2008, 08:47 AM']The PWaves ones are. Because the outer shield is supposed to be grounded at the amp end, it suppresses noise better if you use it in the correct orientation QED (that's a little hi fi cable joke!)[/quote] It's a method used in electronic design to eleviate earth loops as well.An earth or screen cable is only terminated at one end, usually a central point to which all screen cables connect. A 'trick', albeit rather dangerous one of PA engineers to get rid of earthing borne noise was to remove the earth connection from the mains plug of a piece of connected gear (which is the same as terminating the earth at one end of the instrument cable above). Not one I would recommend as there are plenty of other ways to sort out those niggley noises safely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 [quote name='chardbass' post='138616' date='Feb 12 2008, 01:00 AM']How long do 'average' leads last- say, Planet Waves? Compare that to the leads that OBBM or others similar make- what is the life-expectancy of these leads when used regularly? Just because I could, (hey, I was young and reckless) I bought an MIT lead that was mentioned earlier in this thread. I must have paid around £80 for it and got about 7 years constant use from it. I now have a Monster cable which cost half of that and it is into year 4.[/quote] I think I can beat that a bit... I have two Klotz cables that are now entering their 22nd year of faultless service with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuk Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 2.5 sq.mm per core or overall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 [quote name='mhuk' post='139937' date='Feb 13 2008, 10:57 PM']2.5 sq.mm per core or overall?[/quote] per core. The Americans reckon 12-gauge but there is no direct metric equivalent. 4 sq.mm. is the nearest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teen t-shirt Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 just a little concern here......... but is it ok that i don't have a bloody clue what you guys are chatting about???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I thnk that's a good sign - keep it that way. If you ever find yourself wondering if a better cable might help....have a beer instead. Or buy some really good earplugs that will help far more in the long run. BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I was doing a little calculating yesterday (no fag packet to hand, dammit) and concluded that it would be worth sorting out a short cable and buffer pre-amp for the WAV-4, because it needs an input impedance of 1M+, and with cable of 100pF/m (seems to be about the right ballpark), 1m of cable presents an impedance of 17M at 100Hz - so a 5m cable would start noticeably (I would think) bleeding off highs. Still, I have a project in hand to deal with that... I'm not convinced that there would be a huge difference with instruments feeding into an amp with a typical 50k input impedance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuk Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Are there requirements/ suggestions for the lead between a pre and power amp? Is unshielded cable OK (the same that I use to make XLR leads between the pre and power amps in my hifi)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 [quote name='mhuk' post='140242' date='Feb 14 2008, 12:42 PM']Are there requirements/ suggestions for the lead between a pre and power amp? Is unshielded cable OK (the same that I use to make XLR leads between the pre and power amps in my hifi)?[/quote] No, no, no, no,no. It must be shielded Unbalanced - Good quality instrument cable Balanced - Screened pair (mic cable) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 [quote name='mhuk' post='140242' date='Feb 14 2008, 12:42 PM']Are there requirements/ suggestions for the lead between a pre and power amp? Is unshielded cable OK (the same that I use to make XLR leads between the pre and power amps in my hifi)?[/quote] I've no wish to sound pedantic, but that doesn't quite make sense ? XLR leads use screened pair cables - two separately insulated wires inside an overall shielded braid. So a proper XLR lead will be shielded. XLR connectors are the locking type used for mics etc. and have three pins - one for each conductor wire and one for the shielding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuk Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 It didn't quite make sense - I was at work and trying to remember what the cable was that I used to make the XLR leads (which having just looked were from my CDP to pre-amp). The cable is microphone cable: [url="http://www.connectronics.uk.com/Musiflex.htm"]http://www.connectronics.uk.com/Musiflex.htm[/url] and I also have some [url="http://www.connectronics.uk.com/quadflex.htm"]http://www.connectronics.uk.com/quadflex.htm[/url] Are either suitable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 [quote name='mhuk' post='140548' date='Feb 14 2008, 06:40 PM']It didn't quite make sense - I was at work and trying to remember what the cable was that I used to make the XLR leads (which having just looked were from my CDP to pre-amp). The cable is microphone cable: [url="http://www.connectronics.uk.com/Musiflex.htm"]http://www.connectronics.uk.com/Musiflex.htm[/url] and I also have some [url="http://www.connectronics.uk.com/quadflex.htm"]http://www.connectronics.uk.com/quadflex.htm[/url] Are either suitable?[/quote] Yes, both of these are suitable for a cable from preamp to poweramp. The first one uses a conductive plastic sheath for screening instead of the normal wire braiding. The bare "drain wire" touches this sheath all along the length and you solder this drain wire to the ground contact on the plug. The second one is sometimes called "Star Quad"cable and is overkill for this purpose. It's used in very electronically noisy environments or for very long cable runs where interference must be kept to a minimum. Broadcasting people sometimes use it. There are actually 4 conductors plus an earth but these consist of two twisted pairs of two conductors each. It's a lot more fiddly to work with and you solder the two similarly-coloured wires together at the plug so you effectively get 2 conductors plus a ground. You can use balanced cable for mono jack-plug applications (either solder both conductors together at each end, or cut one of them off at each end) if you don't have single core cable. Good article here [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan02/articles/faq0102.asp"]SoundOnSound.com[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 [quote name='dlloyd' post='140102' date='Feb 14 2008, 09:53 AM']That sort of makes sense. I'll have to dig out the review... I'm sure they were talking about directional electron flow or some such nonsense.[/quote] There's a school of thought about [i]that[/i] sort of directionality, but even my (allegedly) snake-oil impregnated golden ears can't hear any difference! I think you're [i]supposed[/i] to run the signal in the same direction that the cable was drawn/cast in. Something to do with the flow of electrons being "better" if they follow the orientation/alignment of the copper molecules in the conductor. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuk Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Cheers Bod! Guidance much appreciated How can you tell which way a cable is drawn? My scanning electron microscope is at the menders this week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 [quote name='mhuk' post='140809' date='Feb 15 2008, 08:56 AM']How can you tell which way a cable is drawn? My scanning electron microscope is at the menders this week... [/quote] Oh, that's easy. As long as you've got a vertical tube a little longer than the cable (it's preferable to be able to evacuate the tube but not absolutely essential). Hang the cable up in the tube, making sure you've marked one end (if you mark both ends, make sure you mark them differently). Hold the bottom of the cable until the cable is showing no signs of motion, then release. After around 5 minutes, you will see the cable bottom moving in a circle. Make note of the direction of rotation. If the cable end is rotating clockwise (as observed from above it), the end from which it was drawn is at the bottom, if anticlockwise, the end from which it was drawn is at the top. If the tube doesn't contain a vacuum, repeat the experiment at least three times to confirm the result. This should be reversed if you are in the southern hemisphere. The reason is that the special audio electrons (or auditrons) in the wire are a little more densely spread at the end from which the wire was drawn, and consequently there's a slight but significant density difference in the material from one end to the other. The Coriolis force from the Earth's rotation causes differential movement in the cable, which translates into circular motion. Obviously this effect is reversed in the southern hemisphere. Anybody at one of the Poles who wishes to check the direction in which their cable was drawn has such severely compromised ability at assessing priorities that we may ignore them, as they will be hypothermic within a couple of days anyway. Auditrons are very special electrons because they behave unlike the more conventional ones that you encounter carrying electricity to bulbs and irons [1] as, instead of carrying a negative charge all the time, the polarity of the charge they carry varies. This means that they can all go in the same direction when carrying alternating current, unlike conventional electrons, which have to rush backwards and forwards like rowers on a galley. You would think that as a consequence of this, they'd all get stuck at the amplifier end of the cable, but in fact there is something called the surface effect or skin effect, where the auditrons travel back to the instrument end of the cable along the surface of the copper strands (rather than inside them, as they travel when they are carrying a signal). No snakes were oiled in the making of this post. [1] Why did I just think of a 9-string when I mentioned irons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 [quote name='tauzero' post='141087' date='Feb 15 2008, 02:52 PM']Anybody at one of the Poles who wishes to check the direction in which their cable was drawn has such severely compromised ability at assessing priorities that we may ignore them, as they will be hypothermic within a couple of days anyway.[/quote] A very interesting post. I never realised people looked at wires in such detail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuk Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Do you mean individual strand when you say cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 And of course, don't forget that you can have your cable impregnated with crushed mother of pearl which gives your sound added sparkle, fullness, and body. Why would you want this ? Because you're worth it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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