Providing your own PA

[lojo]

For those of you who along with your band, provide your own PA, how do you approach it?

Do you bring a sound guy along, or just set and go?


Basically a band i've started with friends has gone quite well, we are doing our 4th gig in a few weeks, and its a 300 people corporate gig in a hotel function room in London

Our usual guy who does our PA is not free on that night, and I am keen we have someone on the desk, we could just set and go, but this is a good stepping stone for the band and I don't want anything not covered

Obviously we need to provide the best service for the client regardless and this is not a play in the corner pub gig


So how do you guys approach this ?

Edited November 24, 2010 by lojo

[sk8]

set up and go

[crez5150]

Depends on the gig.... when we do larger weddings and corporates then definitely bring the Sound Engineer along as you do not want to be seen as amateur in those functions.

[markstuk]

Maybe worth asking someone who lives/works close to the venue to help out... Someone with ears on the desk is always useful...

[razze06]

[quote name='crez5150' post='1034864' date='Nov 24 2010, 10:59 AM']Depends on the gig.... when we do larger weddings and corporates then definitely bring the Sound Engineer along as you do not want to be seen as amateur in those functions.[/quote]

+1

[Floyd Pepper]

[quote name='crez5150' post='1034864' date='Nov 24 2010, 10:59 AM']Depends on the gig.... when we do larger weddings and corporates then definitely bring the Sound Engineer along as you do not want to be seen as amateur in those functions.[/quote]

+2

Most of the time, we always set up and go (keeping the desk nearby for any issues) and I bought a wireless unit specifically so that I can go out the front during soundcheck and listen from there.

Big, important gigs that you don't won't to mess up on - then someone on the desk is good advice.

[Lozz196]

We generally just play pubs, 100 - 150 capacity, and have only vocals through the pa, so set up and go. We do however have the pa by the guitarists gear, so can make adjustments if needed.

[bobbytodd]

with us myself and the retardist use radio packs so we go out front and the drummer uses a roland v electronic kit that has some drum tracks recorded onto it so he stands at the desk while we play and tell him if anything needs alterd

[lojo]

We've been careful so far what we agree to (only 3 gigs in over a year) and only play when everyone including the sound guy can make, but this is a good step up and all the band can make it except him


I have another guy who now might be able to help, just waiting for him to confirm,

He will get a fee, and a meal at the Savoy, drinks and a minibus home, so its not a bad deal for your average Joe


We have 2 lead vocals, 2 bvs, 2 keys, Sax, 2 guitars, 3 drum mics and bass, and some MP3 intro vibes going into the PA so, be good to have someone there, and I hope this is a spring board into these kind of gigs with this band

Edited November 24, 2010 by lojo

[JTUK]

If it is that important, the guy must know what he is doing..I'd go the whole hog and hire in Engr and kit.

We normally can do this ourselves ( no engr ) as we are an easy to mix band but it depends if you have anyone who knows the gear and if everyone can get a good sound on their own..so it just becomes a degree of amping up and tuning/freq control, really.

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='lojo' post='1035001' date='Nov 24 2010, 12:45 PM']...He will get a fee, and a meal at the Savoy, drinks and a minibus home, so its not a bad deal for your average Joe...[/quote]
Not picking a fight here and it's just my opinion but WOW - Very presumptious and rude.
I would expect [i]at least [/i] all of that on a paying sound gig in town for a band looking to do a really good show for their own gain.

Hope it all goes well and wish you all the best.

[lojo]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='1035006' date='Nov 24 2010, 12:51 PM']Not picking a fight here and it's just my opinion but WOW - Very presumptious and rude.
I would expect [i]at least [/i] all of that on a paying sound gig in town for a band looking to do a really good show for their own gain.

Hope it all goes well and wish you all the best.[/quote]


Im kinda making reference to where we are at with this band, ie overworked mid life crisis blokes (+1 female ) trying to have some fun that pays for itself

It goes with out saying their are semi pros and pros on here who would not get out of bed for what we do, but for us and this being our 4th gig, I believe is a good early step

Just asking for advice really if its to risky to do without someone on the desk, like you would in pub or small party, don't know how this got me labelled presumptious and rude

The other sound guy I might be able to rope in is a young but knowledgeable chap on the desk, and he has suggested he would be happy for an extra evenings pay whilst having fun, so again, a reference to us and our position, not to be compared to where anyone else might be at in the great scale of things above us

If you expect at least what I mentioned then Im pleased you can command it, but that doesn't mean our progress to us is futile, and to cynically write WOW ? We are pleased with the booking anyway

Hope that makes sense, really didn't intend to offend ?

Edited November 24, 2010 by lojo

[JTUK]

Depending on whether you can afford it, of course, but if you hire in the kit and engr, then that is one source of potential stress and hiccups with gear out of the way...if you are so keen to make an impression???
I get the idea that the gig is more important that the fee..?? so put what you can into pro hire..assuming they are known and recommneded, of course.

Just 2p...

[Noisyjon]

No offence taken!
It just irks me when the person who is responsible for what your band sound like, and therefore how your audience hears you, should be made to feel grateful for the privilege
That's all another can of worms though...

On the gig front have the people in your band, with applicable equipment, got it PAT tested, etc for the gig?
There's a great thread about it all on here somwhere and may help you with any nasty surprises.

[lojo]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='1035085' date='Nov 24 2010, 01:58 PM']It just irks me when the person who is responsible for what your band sound like, and therefore how your audience hears you, should be made to feel grateful for the privilege
That's all another can of worms though...[/quote]

I think this might be a case of us both reading without understanding the intention behind the text, a common email problem

I don't think the young guy who may help us that night should feel grateful, its us who would be very grateful to him if he can do it



Anyway, cheers guys for the replies, we have the complete PA system already which I use regularly elsewhere (just need a few more fold back monitors) , so no need to hire anything, its more about having someone on the desk during the night, which now is looking likely again

Thanks for the heads up re PAT, the venue have asked for £5 million PL insurance, but we managed to get the company planning the event to deal with this

Edited November 24, 2010 by lojo

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='lojo' post='1035100' date='Nov 24 2010, 02:12 PM']I think this might be a case of us both reading without understanding the intention behind the text, a common email problem[/quote]

Indeed and quite possibly!

On the gig front - Do you D.I. your bass or run it all from the amp?

[lojo]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='1035106' date='Nov 24 2010, 02:15 PM']Indeed and quite possibly!

On the gig front - Do you D.I. your bass or run it all from the amp?[/quote]

DI from the amp, but normally mostly coming from the amp, just a trickle of bass to help spread it, we have 4 out front speakers

This gig however is around 100 people more than I have ever used this PA for

Thanks for the heads up re PAT, the venue have asked for £5 million PL insurance, but we managed to get the company planning the event to deal with this


Jon, do you do sound engineering then when your not playing bass ?

Edited November 24, 2010 by lojo

[krth1985]

[quote name='lojo' post='1034843' date='Nov 24 2010, 10:43 AM']For those of you who along with your band, provide your own PA, how do you approach it?

Do you bring a sound guy along, or just set and go?


Basically a band i've started with friends has gone quite well, we are doing our 4th gig in a few weeks, and its a 300 people corporate gig in a hotel function room in London

Our usual guy who does our PA is not free on that night, and I am keen we have someone on the desk, we could just set and go, but this is a good stepping stone for the band and I don't want anything not covered

Obviously we need to provide the best service for the client regardless and this is not a play in the corner pub gig


So how do you guys approach this ?[/quote]


Pretty much what every one else says....for us it comes down to the venue. 9/10 we just set up, sound check to a song or two and off we go. Although word of warning - the desk is usually within arms reach of the vocalist who after the first song thinks he needs to be slightly louder, after the second song slightly louder still, after the third song slightly louder, after the 4th....you get the idea

[dougal]

I would say if you've got more than just vocals going through (sounds like you've got keys,sax and vocals?) it's worth having someone you trust, with a good ear (preferably two) (and probably high quality ear plugs) (well, plug, if they've only got one good ear) running the desk.

Reading your posts it looks like you're hoping this first corporate gig will act as a springboad, allowing for more gigs of a similar calibur; if it was me I'd be willing to pay for a quality engineer and treating it as a loss leader.

[ironside1966]

If the gig is important to you get someone in who know what they are doing you may be out of pocket but not as much as the loss of future work. A lot of the time corporate/ hotel gigs you have to stay within a sensible volume and you need a more polite mix than you would in a pub, depends on the band and the venue of course.
Studio engineering and live is two different animals and thinking a studio engineer can do both without experience is like a guitarist playing bass.

If it just a fun gig then have a go yourself but have a PA rehearsal and get the engineer to come along

[algmusic]

It's funny, the one question that hasn't come up is the quality of the band.. I've played in bands where we had a sound guys for 3 reasons:

1. no one wanted to lug around the PA gear, that was his/her responsibility, but it meant a far small gig fee for the band
2. there are so many instruments, you need a GOOD PA guy to make it sound good
3. there was a big enough budget..

On the flip side I've played in bands that did big corp shows without sound guys, but you didn't have a guitarist constantly turning and up to a drummer who plays far too loud etc.. the

The first I played in this context used in ears monitoring, then the wireless guitarist would check the sound before the gig and occasionally when running around playing solos, the other band with no sound guy, had the same mix in the FOH for the monitors and the band actually 'used their ears to gauge the level'

If you can't trust the band to do that and the gig isn't worth fluffing up, then get a sound guy..

But I do think band members can save money on gigs if everyone listens ;-) I know I'm asking alot :-P

[lojo]

[quote name='algmusic' post='1036351' date='Nov 25 2010, 01:57 PM']It's funny, the one question that hasn't come up is the quality of the band.. I've played in bands where we had a sound guys for 3 reasons:

1. no one wanted to lug around the PA gear, that was his/her responsibility, but it meant a far small gig fee for the band
2. there are so many instruments, you need a GOOD PA guy to make it sound good
3. there was a big enough budget..

On the flip side I've played in bands that did big corp shows without sound guys, but you didn't have a guitarist constantly turning and up to a drummer who plays far too loud etc.. the

The first I played in this context used in ears monitoring, then the wireless guitarist would check the sound before the gig and occasionally when running around playing solos, the other band with no sound guy, had the same mix in the FOH for the monitors and the band actually 'used their ears to gauge the level'

If you can't trust the band to do that and the gig isn't worth fluffing up, then get a sound guy..

But I do think band members can save money on gigs if everyone listens ;-) I know I'm asking alot :-P[/quote]

As a band, we can play the songs in the set with good dynamics and extend things if it feels right during the gig etc, everyone listens and no one shows off or has to be loudest (which is the opposite in another band I gig with)

But out front sound is not the same as on stage in a room like this, and the songs really vary, some have keys on top others more subtle strings etc, and there are up to 4 vocals etc, so we could do it without, but someone listening our front tweaking is what we need, it certainly has made the gigs before this a success and is perhaps a key in the reason we got this gig (as someone came to last gig to listen before they booked us)

Not only that, set up/sound check time is limited, and that would be done with an empty room which once filled changes things i believe

We have no in ears, but should have 4 monitors (2 powered 2 slaves) as a minimum

Whatever happens, it will be ok, but I started this thread thinking there must be a lot of bands in our position and wondered what approaches you guys took

PA seems to be something we have just about enough knowledge to get by with, but Id rather focus on my own playing and rig, the sound guy really is another member of the band and really important, but he cant make it, it looks like we will have someone to help though, hopefully

A

Edited November 25, 2010 by lojo

[TimR]

Train someone up on the basics of how to adjust levels and learn frequencies to eliminate feedback and get instruments to sit in the mix. Set the PA up for them.

As the band get more experience they will learn that what they hear in the monitors sometimes ranges from absolute rubbish to excellent depending on the stage acoustics (NOT the PA). They'll learn how to cope and deal with it. However it's important for them to be able to trust what is coming out of the front is sounding good. Someone behind a desk smiling and fading up lead vocals and guitar solos is what you need.

If you start getting feedback from the drum mics you are going to be banjaxed as you'll never sort that while trying to play the bass.

If the band is inexperienced and you get a bad monitor mix there will be all sorts of arguments - either during the sound check (BAD) or after the show. If you are running the mixer you will bear the brunt of this.

Edited November 25, 2010 by TimR