Leeds College of music

[bassace]

Phil Wilkins, tenor/sop is the only ex LCM I've played with and he is very good inded. Could it be that the OP's disappointment is down to the musicians' initial lack of band experience on graduation. Phil was a bit like this initially but it took him no time at all to get up to speed.

[farmer61]

[quote name='bassace' post='988925' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:12 AM']Phil Wilkins, tenor/sop is the only ex LCM I've played with and he is very good inded. Could it be that the OP's disappointment is down to the musicians' initial lack of band experience on graduation. Phil was a bit like this initially but it took him no time at all to get up to speed.[/quote]

Let's see if the OP's posts remain in the same vein after a good night's 'sleep' !!!!!!

Edited October 15, 2010 by farmer61

[MacDaddy]

a couple of decades ago I turned down a place at Leeds College of Music, purely because their qualification was a graduate diploma and I wanted a 'proper' degree. Things have probably changed. The guys I knew from from LCM back in the day knew their stuff and could play.

[casapete]

I've worked with a few guys from LCM, and they've all been great players and good people.
The last 3 editions of Jools Holland have featured LCM players to my knowledge, so must be doing something right?

[tauzero]

[quote name='4 candles' post='988463' date='Oct 14 2010, 09:42 PM']some punk keys waller from leeds uni, 4 years into his degree gets lost soloing over "mustang sally" !!!!

guitar player "4 years at leeds" has the contempt to not even listen to "celebration by cool and the gang", shows up and cant read the charts, or even remotely play the tune. w***er[/quote]
That's all very well, but the first one's degree was in biochemistry and the second one's was in Russian.

[Bilbo]

First jazz gig I ever had was a Leeds graduate (Dick Hamer - Cardiff). Great player and even better mentor to young players.

[Clarky]

Dirty b@stards the lot of them - Don Revie, Billy Bremner, Peter Lorimer ...

[Pete Academy]

Our original sax player went to Leeds and she's brilliant.

[EssentialTension]

Although I never went to music college, I did live in Leeds for a year and I'm rubbish.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='989441' date='Oct 15 2010, 04:55 PM']Our original sax player went to Leeds and she's brilliant.[/quote]

Indeed she is.

Hmmmmm...... It appears that Mr Candles has gone rather quiet on the subject.

Beer and posting on forums aren't always a good combination.

[ironside1966]

Don’t take this personal because it’s not intended to be, I have no idea of your experience and abilities but this is how your post comes across to many people.
1. Would the band leader book you again if he knew that you where posting on a public forum that he uses substandard musicians?
2. It is not a good advertisement for you saying you are in a band that will employ anybody.
3. It shows the lack of experience and comes across as someone who has got the first sniff at a decent job and thinks they know everything and better then everyone else, a more seasoned player accepts that sometimes you work with musicians who don’t quite cut it for one reason o another it’s part of life.

[4 candles]

1.point taken
2.point taken
3.point taken

very well put, doddy is quite right that beer and posting dont make a good combination.

[stingrayPete1977]

You have made yourself look a bit of a plonka 4candles!

[Huw Foster]

[quote name='4 candles' post='989514' date='Oct 15 2010, 06:18 PM']1.point taken
2.point taken
3.point taken

very well put, doddy is quite right that beer and posting dont make a good combination.[/quote]
That's very noble of you. I respect that you have broken your silence to concede that your rant might have been a little rash and ill-advised.

(Now, if only I could think of a way of saying that without coming across as a patronising git!)

[4 candles]

Guys, My op should have read

I am very dissapointed in the way SOME musicians from leeds college of music turn up to a function gig, thinking that the gig is beneath them and not bothering to listen too or learn the set. When they struggle to play a simple 12 bar blues, or loose their bearings when soloing over mustang sally it really winds me up. The music is all charted out but still they struggle. Give them the pre dinner jazz and they are fantastic, but a pop gig!!!

I just find it a bit insulting, when I put my heart and soul into ANY performance, regardless of the style

Sorry for any offence

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='4 candles' post='989541' date='Oct 15 2010, 06:44 PM']Guys, My op should have read

I am very dissapointed in the way SOME musicians from leeds college of music turn up to a function gig, thinking that the gig is beneath them and not bothering to listen too or learn the set. When they struggle to play a simple 12 bar blues, or loose their bearings when soloing over mustang sally it really winds me up. The music is all charted out but still they struggle. Give them the pre dinner jazz and they are fantastic, but a pop gig!!!

I just find it a bit insulting, when I put my heart and soul into ANY performance, regardless of the style

Sorry for any offence[/quote]
You still seem to be suggesting that it's because they had a connection to Leeds College of Music.

[Pete Academy]

Goes back to the "tutored" versus "self taught" argument.

[4 candles]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='989549' date='Oct 15 2010, 06:53 PM']You still seem to be suggesting that it's because they had a connection to Leeds College of Music.[/quote]


a coincidence perhaps?

[daz]

Sir i will have you know the worlds greatest living Jazz fusion musician and Jazzercise maverick, comes from Leeds, and is an alumni of that cities music college. None other than [b]Howard TJ Moon [/b]. "I see a muisical boundary, i eat a musical boundary, beacause thats the kind of musician i am" Says Howard.

[attachment=61463:11738603...d14fd8d6.jpg] [attachment=61464:howard.jpg]

Edited October 15, 2010 by daz

[ironside1966]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='989567' date='Oct 15 2010, 07:17 PM']Goes back to the "tutored" versus "self taught" argument.[/quote]

Far from it, it is about attitude some people put the work in some don’t some people think they don’t have to when they obviously do, thats thw only complaint I have with some students is they lack the experience to know their limitations so don’t put the work in but that could be said for a lot of musicians.

Edited October 15, 2010 by ironside1966

[Pete Academy]

You can have a million degrees in music, but as a bass player you have to hold a groove. Is that what the OP is about?

It would be unusual for someone from a music college to come out and not be able to play well, but I've had experience of musicians being tied to the notes and not being able to do anything without them.

Just a thought.

[lanark]

[quote name='4 candles' post='989584' date='Oct 15 2010, 07:33 PM']a coincidence perhaps?[/quote]

Maybe it's because you're using jazz players to play pop songs. You'd probably get the same results if you asked pop musicians to play a jazz set.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='989604' date='Oct 15 2010, 07:57 PM']You can have a million degrees in music, but as a bass player you have to hold a groove. Is that what the OP is about?

It would be unusual for someone from a music college to come out and not be able to play well, but I've had experience of musicians being tied to the notes and not being able to do anything without them.

Just a thought.[/quote]

I don't think that going to any music college had anything to do with playing well or not. I've worked with guys who have been to various places who have been fantastic,and others who have been completely sh*t. It says more about the individuals than the colleges.

[chardbass]

I kind of know what the OP is getting at, without the Leeds connection.
I have worked with many people fresh out of music education establishments (Newcastle, Leeds, ACM)- what I've found is that no matter how big a fish they were in their world, there is no substitute for experience of any nature in the 'real' world- live music, pop, backing, reading whilst making it sound 'not read' etc.

Usually the muso's warm-up is straight out of Chops R Us and then all that sh*t is straight out of the window on the gig or rehearsal even.

There is some degree of snobbery in these establishments- nothing wrong with aspiring to do greater things- but so many of us earn money from playing pop, cabaret, theatre etc and the more this stuff is taught in colleges etc the better, as not all people who leave music college end up in New York working the jazz scene or getting on a Beyonce world tour (all offers considered tho)

Couldn't help but get involved- I'm an ex-college boy (late 80s) BTW.

[risingson]

I think musicians out of such institutes can definitely come with a bad attitude, and a close mind when it comes down to music as well because of the way they've been taught by lecturers, though this by no means goes for all musicians that come from such esteemed institutes. I happen to know a lot of people that think they're the sh*t because they're hot on their jazz and reading, but when it comes down to playing other kinds of stuff they just overplay badly.