rebelhead 450 and rebelstack speakers

[charic]

The rh450 is rated at 4ohm minimum.

The rebelstack cabs are rated at 8ohms each.

All over the net it says that the rh450 can drive 3xrebelstack cabs. But that's 2ohms so hoe can this be. I'm not looking at doing it but that's not the point lol.

[neilb]

TC state that their amps (RH450,Stacatto 51 and Classic) can happily run 3 of their cabs of whatever configuration. The 3 cabs give a mean impedance of 4 ohms, which is the minimum the amps can run. TC state they achieve this because a speaker or cab is not necessarily 8 ohms across the audio spectrum, it varies.

The idea of being able to run 1, 2 or 3 cabs is ground breaking IMO, and it is what attracted me to the TC rig.

I run a single 2x12 at the moment which copes well with a loud blue rock band, but Im considering either a 1x12 or 2x10 to go with it................(whispers so wife cant hear) or both!!

This is great kit, very impressed so far.... and my back likes it too!

Edited September 18, 2010 by neilb

[charic]

I'm seriously untrigued by these, I'm thinking rh450 and 2x210 (all second hand probably) once I have the cash

[Musicman20]

I have three cabs and Ive never run them all at once, but I will one day. One RS212 on its own is VERY loud.

[charic]

Right... I've decided I need to find somewhere to try these things out with my basses!

[lojo]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='960723' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:01 PM']I have three cabs and Ive never run them all at once, but I will one day. One RS212 on its own is VERY loud.[/quote]

You have to do that soon and post what happens, if you survive

[BottomE]

[quote name='neilb' post='960564' date='Sep 18 2010, 05:15 PM']TC state that their amps (RH450,Stacatto 51 and Classic) can happily run 3 of their cabs of whatever configuration. The 3 cabs give a mean impedance of 4 ohms, which is the minimum the amps can run. TC state they achieve this because a speaker or cab is not necessarily 8 ohms across the audio spectrum, it varies.

The idea of being able to run 1, 2 or 3 cabs is ground breaking IMO, and it is what attracted me to the TC rig.

I run a single 2x12 at the moment which copes well with a loud blue rock band, but Im considering either a 1x12 or 2x10 to go with it................(whispers so wife cant hear) or both!!

This is great kit, very impressed so far.... and my back likes it too![/quote]

I run the TC Cabs with a LM2 Head. I have a 2x10 and a 2x12 and have never run out of headroom. Impressive gear although had to return the 2x10 as the speaker jack input on the rear failed. I use the Speakons now so not a problem.

[Musky]

I've got admit I'm a little baffled by all this.

All speaker's impedance varies with frequency, which is why they're given a [i]nominal[/i] impedance rating. The figure usually given is the lowest impedance that the speaker will see in it's designed operating range. So if the TC speakers are nominally rated at 8 ohms and the RH only runs into a minimum load of 4 ohms, it suggests they're not quoting the minimum impedance the speaker can drop to for the amp to be able to handle 3 '8 ohm' speakers. Or maybe the amp is filtering lower frequencies or something.

Anyone got a take on what's going on here?

Edited September 20, 2010 by Musky

[Musicman20]

[quote name='lojo' post='962435' date='Sep 20 2010, 05:19 PM']You have to do that soon and post what happens, if you survive [/quote]

Hhaha, definitely.

Most bands I play with havent got a clue what they are. The bassist normally has a normal size/type of cab and mine looks like 'the future'.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Musky' post='962843' date='Sep 20 2010, 11:38 PM']I've got admit I'm a little baffled by all this.

All speaker's impedance varies with frequency, which is why they're given a [i]nominal[/i] impedance rating. The figure usually given is the lowest impedance that the speaker will see in it's designed operating range. So if the TC speakers are nominally rated at 8 ohms and the RH only runs into a minimum load of 4 ohms, it suggests they're not quoting the minimum impedance the speaker can drop to for the amp to be able to handle 3 '8 ohm' speakers. Or maybe the amp is filtering lower frequencies or something.

Anyone got a take on what's going on here?[/quote]

TBH I think you've just about summed it up Musky; TC are either being a bit loose with their 'nominal' impedance ratings or they are happy to let the amp run a bit hot if it is running below 4 ohms. It could be argued that ANY 8 ohm speaker is a best fit figure across the frequency range in which case running any three 8 ohm cabs [u]might[/u] be OK so long as you watch that the amp doesn't run too hot. At the end of the day how many of us pump out 1/16th notes on the low B string all night long in which case yes I suppose it is OK to run x3 8 ohm cabs! I know that some Thunderfunk 550B owners have run their amp with x3 8 ohm cabs and the TF is rated to 4 ohms but it is very much a case of 'owner beware' and if you are sensible and ensure you aren't driving them too hard then it'll be fine... just not recommended or warranted by the manufacturer.

[Musky]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='962850' date='Sep 20 2010, 11:49 PM']TBH I think you've just about summed it up Musky; TC are either being a bit loose with their 'nominal' impedance ratings or they are happy to let the amp run a bit hot if it is running below 4 ohms. It could be argued that ANY 8 ohm speaker is a best fit figure across the frequency range in which case running any three 8 ohm cabs [u]might[/u] be OK so long as you watch that the amp doesn't run too hot. At the end of the day how many of us pump out 1/16th notes on the low B string all night long in which case yes I suppose it is OK to run x3 8 ohm cabs! I know that some Thunderfunk 550B owners have run their amp with x3 8 ohm cabs and the TF is rated to 4 ohms but it is very much a case of 'owner beware' and if you are sensible and ensure you aren't driving them too hard then it'll be fine... just not recommended or warranted by the manufacturer. [/quote]

That would make a lot of sense. I wonder how many speakers lowest impedance would actually be spot on 8 (or 4) ohms? There's bound to be a bit of rounding that goes on. So if the TC speakers actually measured at 9 ohms and the RH was in fact capable of driving a 3 ohm load safely, then using 3 of the cabs would be fine.

If on the other hand they're relying on no bassist pumping out 16th notes on a detuned 5 string I hope for their sake Speed Doom doesn't get invented.

[lojo]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='962848' date='Sep 20 2010, 11:44 PM']Hhaha, definitely.

Most bands I play with havent got a clue what they are. The bassist normally has a normal size/type of cab and mine looks like 'the future'.[/quote]


Yeah same here, I only own and use the Tc now, even got rid of my old SWR which I brought new nearly twenty years ago

My only problem is when I use someone else amp I now don't own a silent tuner, which is not a major issue

Edited September 21, 2010 by lojo

[Musicman20]

I think a lot of TCs gig artists are using these amps with 3 cabs. If it wasnt recommended, they'd have units going back for repair all the time.

I wont do it very often, but the option is there. Mainly I bought them to swap and change, and because at the time, before the price hike, they were very reasonable.

[JTUK]

I always thought impedance on speakers was merely a guide as it wasn't something they could say absolutley was 8ohms..it is variable.
How TC get around this I am not sure...but agree there must be some license in there somewhere.

[RichardH]

[quote name='JTUK' post='963041' date='Sep 21 2010, 10:02 AM']I always thought impedance on speakers was merely a guide as it wasn't something they could say absolutley was 8ohms..it is variable.
How TC get around this I am not sure...but agree there must be some license in there somewhere.[/quote]

I would think that it is because TC have ACTUALLY TESTED their speakers as a stack of 3, and therefore know what the impedence curve is. They're therefore happy to recommend using them in this configuration.

Other speakers MIGHT be OK, but they've not tested them, so they're not going to go recommending people do it.

[lojo]

As we all know in our various professions and trades we can push the average advised rules much further when we really know our stuff about something, when most people just take the standard bumf on anything and think its gospel, as that is wise if you dont know the real limits

I just do what it says on the tin, ie only 2 x 8 or 1 x 4, but the truth be known there is most likely a massive buffer of safety and you could do more with most amps/cab, surely no business is going to make something electronic and the advise its users to run it close to its limits and then wait to deal with all the returns, there is safety margins built into most things so when someone does cross the mark its the consumers fault

TC are clever if this is the case as they are giving us the go ahead to use some of this buffer, but only with their gear

Surely if the ratings are correct, then you could use 3 TC cabs with a mark bass head, or 3 mark bass 8ohm cabs with the rebel head, but who is gonna risk it?

[charic]

Okie doke,
Riddle me this

Having got the first rs210 (will be getting the rh450 in the near future) I've found that it is a little wobbly on end. Now I suspect two of these would be even MORE unstable...

How do YOU combat this? (eventually ill have 2 x 210 )

GAS GAS GAS

[martinbass7750]

[quote name='lojo' post='963521' date='Sep 21 2010, 04:45 PM']As we all know in our various professions and trades we can push the average advised rules much further when we really know our stuff about something, when most people just take the standard bumf on anything and think its gospel, as that is wise if you dont know the real limits

I just do what it says on the tin, ie only 2 x 8 or 1 x 4, but the truth be known there is most likely a massive buffer of safety and you could do more with most amps/cab, surely no business is going to make something electronic and the advise its users to run it close to its limits and then wait to deal with all the returns, there is safety margins built into most things so when someone does cross the mark its the consumers fault

TC are clever if this is the case as they are giving us the go ahead to use some of this buffer, but only with their gear

Surely if the ratings are correct, then you could use 3 TC cabs with a mark bass head, or 3 mark bass 8ohm cabs with the rebel head, but who is gonna risk it?[/quote]


I accidentally plugged two 4 ohm cabs into my mark bass F1 which is 4 ohm load minimum. It shut down after a few seconds of playing. However I removed one cab, powered off and on and all was well again!

[xgsjx]

[quote name='charic' post='980218' date='Oct 7 2010, 09:16 AM']Okie doke,
Riddle me this

Having got the first rs210 (will be getting the rh450 in the near future) I've found that it is a little wobbly on end. Now I suspect two of these would be even MORE unstable...

How do YOU combat this? (eventually ill have 2 x 210 )

GAS GAS GAS[/quote]
Heavy duty velcro & only play venues with carpeted floors or carry a Gramma Pad around too.

[chris_b]

If you look at the TC site they seem to be happy for you to stack their cabs either vertically or horizontally. If the stack isn't stable then horizontal would be the best idea.

If you're going to run 3 cabs, unless you're 8 ft tall, you'll have to go horizontal anyway!

Edited October 7, 2010 by chris_b

[Musicman20]

Horizontal...if you are worried about it.

[lojo]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='980295' date='Oct 7 2010, 10:33 AM']Horizontal...if you are worried about it.[/quote]


Im hoping to get my hands on a 210 before the weekend and gig it vertical on top of my 212

Id be very upset if this was not very stable as its one of the reasons I start going this route

Do I need to go into the shop and try playing lego before I get the 2nd cab?

Edited October 7, 2010 by lojo

[charic]

I doubt they would fall over by themselves. Im just worried about the cable taking a serious tug or it getting knocked into. Im a paranoid person mind

[mcnach]

[quote name='charic' post='980218' date='Oct 7 2010, 09:16 AM']Okie doke,
Riddle me this

Having got the first rs210 (will be getting the rh450 in the near future) I've found that it is a little wobbly on end. Now I suspect two of these would be even MORE unstable...

How do YOU combat this? (eventually ill have 2 x 210 )

GAS GAS GAS[/quote]


I have a single RS210... no wobbliness detected. I often place it on an Ashdown mini ABM1x15" cab and it's solid (and loud!)

[lojo]

Well eventually got my RS210 today, so first gig tomorrow with it on top of my RS212

Will let you know if it falls down and drops my RH450 through a tom tom

Looking forward to it, it might be overkill (Pub) but been really enjoying the 212 and it will be nice to have something on top to give more clarity and monitoring

Good thing about tomorrow is someone will be using my rig before me, so I'll get to have a proper listen

Got a bigger hall gig in 2 weeks, this will also be a good test for it