Hutton

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' post='1376032' date='Sep 16 2011, 10:47 PM']Exactly, things always, well, nearly always, sell for what the market says they are worth at that time. If a 'vintage' bass is worth £5k, and someone is selling it for £10k, by overmarketing the whole 'vintage' thing, it simply wont sell. Buyers who spend big money arent stupid, they generally know the market very well, and are shrewd with their purchases. Only when a partcularly scarce or unique item comes up for sale, and there are more than one serious person wanting it, does the price often get escalated, but generally this is not the case. Those who say vintage is used as a false selling ploy to inflate prices are a bit misguided, I've never known this to be the case, or an instrument sold over its value because it said vintage in the description. People know what they are buying.[/quote] Sorry. I don't agree that this is always the case. I think that many are wrongly impressed that an instrument will be better if it is so-called 'vintage'. They therefore pay a lot of money for something that isn't necessarily better than a new instrument. We have been conditioned by this whole, old instruments are fantastic crap, way of thinking. It verges on propaganda by those who would seek to sell at inflated prices just because of age. I have taken a 'vintage' instrument and played it through an amp. I have then taken a much newer instrument only a couple or years old and played it through the same amp with the same settings. One bass was a pre CBS precision with the other being my AV 62 precision. Of course there were differences as no two basses are the same. Were the differences huge? No. I actually preferred the newer instrument. Ok, you may say that was only two instruments and therefore cannot be used as an argument. However, the 'vintage' instrument was selling at several thousand pounds more then the newer bass. Would I have bought the 'vintage' instrument. Yes I would have - if I had been a collector who had to have a precision of that era! Old instruments are exactly what they say they are - old instruments. Call them vintage if you like. Just don't think that they should be worth what some poor souls pay for them.

Maybe it all depends on whether you view guitars/basses as a collector or as a player.

All I'm trying to say is that the term 'vintage' has been seen by many people to somehow confer a superiority on instruments falling under this category. Prices therefore follow suit. It is however IMO misplaced. If we just dropped the term altogether then it wouldn't be an issue. Each bass would be taken on it's own merits and priced accordingly as a Jazz, Precision or whatever irrespective of age. As far as Fenders are concerned I'm going to leave the last word of this post to 'Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars' :- "Fender was sold to CBS on January 4 1965. Although the instrument lines continued to expand until the end of the decade, the sale of CBS marked the beginning of a decline in Fender quality that lasted through the 1970s."

You're a gentleman Nige. If I needed icing on the cake then you have just provided it. I've saved the clips to my favourites for reference. Many Thanks! BTW, nice playing.

[quote name='neepheid' post='1375260' date='Sep 16 2011, 10:33 AM']Vintage? An ill defined term used by people to pump up the prices of items based upon mythical, intangible, time bestowed properties. I think it's to do with the distribution of Fairy Dust. People who set a firm time where "Vintage" stops assume that Fairy Dust stopped falling on basses at that time. People who apply an age to "Vintage" assume that Fairy Dust falls on basses at a constant rate. The corollary to that is that Leo Fender was God's sole appointed sprinkler of Fairy Dust on basses. This is because it's only products of companies he's been involved with that seem to have this pre-(whatever company bought the place and RUINED EVERYTHING) nomenclature applied to them.[/quote] You've hit the nail on the head with this post Matt. A bass is a bass is a bass! I would rather have a brand new Fender Precision than some so-called 'vintage' instruments. The term vintage does not confer playability on an instrument. Yet the term is used to hike prices to silly levels. I have a 1984 Precision which is an excellent bass. If I was to sell it then I can expect to pocket about £400 - £500 less than a late 70s Precision. Why?- because the 70s seems to confer magic on Fenders. I have yet to play a late 70s bass that I though was better than my 84. Plus they have all been heavier. I remember the 70s - there were more bad Fenders than good ones. Also, some 'vintage' instruments are knackered yet still command high prices. I would be happy if the term vintage was simply dropped. After all this thread alone has shown that the term is not easy to define. Let's just treat each bass as we find it!

Thanks for the replies chaps. Looks like a good move!

[quote name='casapete' post='1374721' date='Sep 15 2011, 06:14 PM']The only thing that made me stop using my 63 P-bass was a Ray. Just a logical extension of Leo's original classic,[/quote] Does that mean you'll be moving on to a G&L?

Has anyone any knowledge of what difference a John East Preamp will make to a Lakland DJ4. I'm thinking about the upgrade. Many thanks.

[quote name='Donnyboy' post='1374052' date='Sep 15 2011, 09:03 AM']If it's based in Paisley, don't ask too many questions! [/quote] Ha! Ha! That's rich coming from someone from Falkirk!

[quote name='the hand of john curley' post='1371265' date='Sep 12 2011, 11:39 PM']ha ha !! - As quoted by Brian Potter - Pheonix Nights![/quote] Oh right. I hadn't heard the quote before. All is now clear.

Personally I would never buy a late 70s Fender anything unless I had a go at it first. I've too many memories of dreadful Fenders of that period.

sweet baby Jesus and the orphans?

I have also picked up a vibe that just browsing somehow justifies shop staff being mildly belligerent or moody with potential customers. Does this mean that to get civility from shop staff you have to walk in with a visible wad of cash and sign an agreement to buy before you leave? What happened to just going into a shop, having a chat with the staff regarding their stock, and perhaps trying something out. It may or may not result in a sale. I have bought instruments after trying but did not necessarily set out to buy an instrument. I have also gone back at a later date to buy depending on the service I received. If surly shop assistants insist on various conditions before you get a smile or even a hint of service then we all may as well buy from the internet. I like music shops. I want to buy from music shops. Long may they stay in business. To do so they will have to play their part!

[quote name='merello' post='1363318' date='Sep 5 2011, 07:44 PM']Had a poor experience in GG Glasgow recently - looking to buy a present for someone and two of us collected the cash (remember that!) and went in, had a pluck, said, 'we'll take it!' and looked proudly at each other saying, 'well that was easy!' Sales assistant then says, I'll just serve this guy first and come back. We looked at a free assistant and asked if we could pay him and got a 'No.' (Is there some sort of omerta going on?) We looked on the bright side and had a wee browse at the untouchables down stairs. Came back up and asked, 'OK, can we buy it now?' as it lay waiting on the counter. 'Er...just be a minute!' Wandered round once more then 30 mins after our instrument had been chosen looked at the item, looked at the assistants, looked at each other and left. Went to Merchant City Music and bought a slightly more expensive item immediately, got talking to the sales assistant about guitars in general and he volunteered the chance for me to get a shot of an EC Strat and a AmDeluxe Tele. Superb! That's the 3rd time something similar has happened and they have actually lost about £950 in sales over their lack of desire to serve.[/quote] I've had a similar experience in GG in Glasgow. On the other hand I've also had good experiences in the same shop. Maybe it's down to who is attending to your needs. McCormacks in Glasgow and Bruce Millars in Aberdeen have now closed. Both shops were institutions and used to give good service and payment plans to youngsters buying their first decent instrument. It all changed however with a promise to marry the owners 18 stone daughter being required before you could have a go on a guitar or bass. No surprise both shops went down the tubes. I'm now living up in Moray and we have an excellent shop in Elgin called Sound & Vision. No problem trying stuff out. They may not have an extensive range but they know their business depends on people spending money.

It might be worth having a try at the new Fender Blacktop Jazz. It actually has two precision pickups. Just a suggestion.

You've just posted this to make us all extremely envious!