JTUK

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1450273658' post='2931231'] Surely it's worse in four- or five-pieces bands as you've got to deal with two of the buggers! [/quote] Picking the players becomes even more critical..but as long as the gtrs don't cringe at the two gtrs idea then at least that is a good sign...?

[quote name='Mattpt85' timestamp='1450255286' post='2930893'] I had that briefly with a new guitarist. I mentioned light heartedly that it sounds a bit heavy metal for what we are playing and luckily he agreed, came back next week with a more acceptable eq setting! Sounds much better. Now I've just got to get him to stop playing the second set on his bloody lead boost channel. [/quote] When they buy a new amp or gtr to fit the band, that is when you have a guy who is listening

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1450253397' post='2930870'] It's difficult isn't it, but it really does come down to deciding if you can put up with it or not. People are unlikely to change their opinions and arguing with them just flares up the ego and makes it even less likely they will change. I'd just leave... But if you really like the band then you'll have to put up with it. It's about finding a band where everyones idea of what their instruments should sound like works together. If someone told me to change my bass tone away from one I though sounded better I wouldn't, and if they insisted then I'd leave and they can find someone else who sounds the way they want. The last thing you want is to be performing in front of people with a sound you think is s**t... [/quote] That is exactly why gtrs drive most bands...because they think they are more important than that... Them deciding what tone is best for you/us is also one reason why I can't really go for 3 piece bands because that perpetuates this sort of stuff...and panders to their desire to fill everything with everything. I've been very lucky to have a few gtrs who will colour over the foundations I lay, not compete with them.

Always tricky as people very often end up playing with that tone as it all they can play with... so the technical element trumps all else. It is the whole bands responsibility to sort out the mix and this is not really something someone can abstain from... Have to say, Gtrs are often the worst here...which is why they hate keys as there is no way around that problem..bar not have them in the band. I'd record it..and have a band meet and see if that brings things to a head.

I have to say, I've never really been sold on any NEO cabs I tried. Doesn't mean I didn't use them at the time...just knew something wasn't quite right. I could list them as there are a good few... but not one did I like. Draw your own conclusions but the one common element was NEO. That is why I feel I can say I don't like NEO. Whether that might change at some point in the future when I hear one, is a maybe. ..

Also, take the point that even SWR and Eden ..which were the rigs of the early 90's struggle today. Maybe the top end stuff they produced is still good like the SWR SM series and the Eden WT amps. The problem with a lot of gear from rehearsal rooms..and hire rigs, is that the speakers may have had a hard life. I've found that with Ashdown and Ampeg fridges... they can sound pretty tired and ragged...

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1450263393' post='2931055'] Trouble is, John, your "old fashioned" gear is as boutique as they come and bears little relation to the any gear produced 20 years ago let alone "back in the day". My old 50 watt Marshall 4x12 is nowhere near as good as my Bergs in any respect. The thought that my old 1x18 Vox Foundation is a match for my Barefaced cabs is a joke. [/quote] Chris, Yes, I think the DB750 outsrips the SVT in a lot of (ALL..??) ways.... I also think Aguilar have picked off Ampeg almost intentionally. My friends still carry round Bassmen Amps and cabs but their style wouldn't work for me...I can pretty much garauntee it. My current TKS cabs are getting rave reviews at every gig from Musos and bass players.... but I think that is a combination of the cab being great for tone, The Demeter is a class Amp... and believe it or not, gets quite raspy with 'breakup when driven..which I always have to do, so that is a nice side benefit... and I've worked quite had on the sound myself...even tho it is still a work in progress. I'm surprised at the various style of bass players who comment on it.. but there you go...so the (ceramic) cabs being 10kgs is a BONUS, I do recommend the amp tho... I find it on the same lines as the Thunderfunk...whether this is hand wired aspect I don't know, and it is nowhere near as coloured.... not that I had a problem with the colour anyway. but I can see why it is the price it is..and well worth the difference over other Class D I've tried. But yes... I wouldn't quite call it boutique, but have no problem if the price suggest otherwise. At the end of the day, you need to be able to square the compromises you may have to make. Currently very happy with my bass lot.... so much so, I'm looking for another Bass. I think I'll be on my way over to Twyford in the New Year...will let you know when if you are interested.

[quote name='geoff90guitar' timestamp='1450210477' post='2930640'] Well lads, personally I've found these boutique multi-hundred pound cabs very clever and light, if you want to sacrifice your oomph and sound. It's already been invented, you can't beat a real traditional speaker. However, if you've never played with one, you won't miss it. New neo owners will just go round and round and imagine there must be something even better. Still, that's good for business. [/quote] Welcome.... nice firey post to start off with. As it happens, I agree with you. My light rig is a Demeter and TKS S112's and it gets a LOT on nice comments..which is always nice, (ceramic speakers and Class D with a valve stage) but my full beans rig is Aguilar DB750 and DB cabs and that always gets the knowing smile and look from bass players. Both, IMO, sound great but the Full beans rig is the real deal. It just is.

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1450219399' post='2930753'] Will be trying out the hk elements then- thank you folks. Our singer is dead set against grey plastic boxes, and knowing his hectic schedule and the fact he has to drive minis (he's a branch manager) I do understand why, although I've used rcf 722s loads as they're the in house cabs at work. A bit surprised the fr800s didn't get a lot more love as this is basschat after all, but I didn't think he was that pleased with the idea anyway! Still happy to be in a band where the singer stumps up in its entirety for the pa! [/quote] All I'd say is demo hard then, as The Elements we tried wasn't up to it. We binned it even though we borrowed it free. This was what we tried Correction, we used 4x 435 top units on the two subs...but you get the jist. http://www.reidys.com/pr/pa-systems/hk-audio-elements-smart-base-system-18351/?&utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=PriceComparison&catargetid=120170320000001477&cadevice=c&gclid=CMn-8OyJ4MkCFSoUwwodE_cB7Q We moved back to DXR12 tops and subs and this did ok for upto 200 people...where it was running out of steam. Other notable units we had were QSC KW12 and RCF 905 Subs 710 and 905's and QSC10's. For a pokey vox only solution to a very loud level, the QSCK10's win ...as they'll do most of the gigs.. and for the bigger one, you have to make special arrangements... Whether 2x K10's will be enough for you..and as a Vocalist, I'd say these tale care of that dept. Depends what your default gig is. I'll be buying 2 more K10's in the New Year...or maybe 710's. Anything else required, someone else can carry them. Why the Vox wants to carry subs for kick is ...well, that is up to him

As tops for Vox alone, I'm liking K10's.... the vox aren't as sweet as some larger horn cabs, but not harsh by any means so do well as out front or Monitors. They'll go quite pokey but if you are looking for kick, you'll need subs. Not a great lover of QSC subs either but you may need to make your compromises somewhere. I liked the KW12 with a kick..over the K12's ...but again,,and as with all these things, be reasonable with your expectations. RCF are decent as well, the 710's over 310's To get much better that the QSC or RCF's you are going to have to spend a lot more... The next step up IMO, is Nexo, EAW etc but you are hauling a lot more kit for that as well.

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1450170858' post='2930145'] There is a review of the HK Elements system compared to the Bose L1 on here somewhere. Rob (Gilmour) tried both and the HK system came out much better for a band, in fact his function band which is similar to yours has been using one for a while. Cheaper than the Bose as well. [/quote] hmmm we used four Element tops and 2 bass bins which was supposed to be around 1200w..?? I'd say it was about a qtr as good as a 4000w QSC rig with top and bins...and just not up to a loud band....and pretty much vox only. Nice idea and we loved the ease of load and size etc etc...but when it came down to it, it was quite a fail for a pub gig.

I'd be interested in the rest of your signal chain. I'm not getting a very clear picture of what you are after.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1450177341' post='2930213'] Was looking at a Warmoth J build to treat myself in 2016. Having seen the spec of these now, I'm not sure whether it's worth it - these guys seem to be on the money. Just need to have a good look through their website. [/quote] I was looking at options as well............. and a bitza was an option (Sims) but it is now down to either a Sei build or getting a close look (and play) of one of these. Decision time is the New Year.

Hmm...good call. I have a couple of crappy ones from Warwick I believe.... and they've done ok over a 3 or 4 years. They are what they are...and I have proper cases when required, so the bags are just for the car and the zips are going and generally soon to be retired. Thanks all..... happy xmas to me... will buy a couple.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1449979244' post='2928544'] The simple riffs and licks George came up with have stood The test of time and will go down in musical history. In 30 years no one will remember any of hot shot shredders. George will always be with us. Blue [/quote] hmmm so that is Hendrix and Jaco done for.... done for.... done for.. ???

A guy I played with was sacked/released by him...well, by his accountant. He didn't much like his 'settlement' figure....(lucky to get one..?) so the accountant asked him what he thought the figure should be. The accountant didn't bat an eyelid and wrote out the cheque for that revised figure.

[quote name='AinsleyWalker' timestamp='1449842439' post='2927410'] Wait, does this mean you do a full set-up every time you change your strings?! [/quote] Not full, but I don't think I'll get away with a straight swap. If I do, bonus... but I'll always be checking, maybe tweaking. And I don't change brands so once I settle, its same gauge, same set

Good thread revival as was thinking about exactly this in the other threads. I'd say..in that you can hear quite a bit in my playing, IMO, Andy Fraser, Anthony Jackson.. quite probably Jaco, altho I never listened to him THAT much...I always preferred him away from Weater Report. Marcus Miller....altho I listenened to the tracks rather than the bass.... and ditto Mark King.- was never interested in what they played so much, just ripped a few 'tricks' Oh...forgot Jerry Barnes... really liking him for slap atm..

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1449831194' post='2927241'] not sure if that's a comment at my post JTUK, but just because I can't hear the guitar that distinctly doesn't mean the rest of the room can't, I like to hear what I'm playing clearly, if you can't is all to easy to fool yourself that you're playing well when you're not, TBH all I need to hear clearly is me and the drums, we lay the foundation. I've got a wireless set up and go to the back of the room at sound check to make sure everybody is heard as they should be [/quote] Not really. It is more a general comment here as some many times people say they can't hear the bass... or they can't hear the gtr. I'm wondering what on earth they are listening to...

Zoom devices are great for sticking in a corner and pressing play and forgetting all else bar the level. If the band mix is ok... Zoom will deal with it well enough. They have a very generous sweet spot for recording and the mic compresses well enough. If you have a screwed mix on these..your rehearsal mix would have been very poor anyway For a plug n play device at their price point, I'd say they are pretty unbeatable.

There is no point in blatting out the other instruments. Just as we'd can the gtr for doing this...we should can the bass so you really want a bass rig/sound that projects as per the other instruments. To do this without a FOH engr..and pubs aren't really typically big enough for this.. you need to be pretty sorted with your EQ and general set-ups. Having bass that reaches the back wall at the expense of the other instruments/voices is no solution at all and if you can't hear the bass at source, this is not at all helpful. Having it at your ears isn't much better either as that might be TOO much your personal mix. You have to mix for yourself, the band and the audience. It can be very tricky and tbh, most bands wont achieve it. Typically, the bass will not be distinct...and just be an undercurrent of depth-which some prefer, Others prefer/want to hear every note... and then you should allow for the fact that keys and gtr want this too.

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1449779598' post='2926832'] In response to the OP: 1) Co-writing Beatles songs; 2) Singing Beatles songs; 3) Playing bass on Beatles songs. In response to Blue: I'm about the same age as you and can at least match your enthusiasm for Macca (OK, he's my Number 1 Bass Hero!!) - but that has a lot to do with being high on teenage hormones at the time the Beatles were 'happening'. As you said yourself, Blue: "You had to be there!", so should we be surprised that those who weren't there when we were are into different things? In response to everybody else: Great thread, interesting views, and amazing just how well Beatle- and Macca-mania have stood the test of time. [b]Last but not least, here's my thought for the day: How big an influence was George on Paul's bass playing (that's Martin not Harrison btw [/b] ). [/quote] Would not know...but how long did Martin work with them... possibly mainly in the formative years..? The thing about the Beatles impact at the time..they were an explosion and they had hits, but maybe other acts have done the same sort of thing...where an act is more popular than... but Beatle Mania was probably the first mania, certainly on that scale and it was a one off time/trend. So, from a social/cultural point of view...HUUUGGGEEEEE and unprecedented. Musically, the songs certainly stand the test of time Musician-wise... not so much, IMO.

I like him... When I'm looking for things like a spark or an idea , he crops up quite near the top of the listings. I normally check it out.

[quote name='police squad' timestamp='1449759103' post='2926571'] yes I spent the day at bass gear with JT and we did a lot of testing using a tone hammer and ampeg pf-500. At the time I wasn't really playing a lot of bass guitar but now I am, as I've replaced our dearly departed bass player who passed away last month. I think I may need to order white tolex cabs, but with a red front and an oxblood grill cloth, to match my green bass strings!! [/quote] definitely... I may well consider changing the fronts...as wish I'd been more adventurous colour-wise. I changed amps so I'd choose completely differently now.. I'm off to their site to see what I can come up with

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1449703474' post='2926221'] Another really cool analysis from a guy that to me knows what he's talking about. Nice! Blue [/quote] So, if we diagree with you, we don't know what we are talking about... And then, conversely... see, it is a funny old game.