warwickhunt

Band A - Guitarist/vocalist has used digital modelling since forever (no backline) and uses IE all the time. He has confessed he just accepts that IE sound may not be as good as maybe a quality amp/cab but he is just happy to get a good sound out front. Drummer can/does use IE as he does theatre/pit work but is actually happy enough if I use a monitor on a stand at the side of the stage. Band B - Same guitarist as 'A'. Vocalist uses a combination of on-stage monitor amp/cab + IE. Drummer will only use a side fill monitor. I have my bass in the desk feed if I want it but as I have it independently fed via the same source as the desk feed, it makes more sense to just balance this. Oddly balancing my bass v's other instruments isn't an issue. I have the feeling of a disconnect with my environment which I can only relate to say listening to a good quality hi-fi or AV system v's sitting with headphones on. I never gelled with the KZ10s as they were not a good fit for my ear canal and I never got a good seal (yes lots of different size, shape and compounds used) added to which the bulk of the units outside of my ear seemed to drag the IE down/out. The IE100 are massively better for fit + I prefer the tone of them, despite them being single driver v's 5 drivers in the KZs. The Sennheisers are the reason I've come back to try this again but I will be using analogue tone shaping pedals to get what I want not captures, models, IRs etc. Bass tone out front I have left well alone, my concern is my enjoyment of my tone on stage. I accepted a long time ago that 90% of an audience couldn't tell a chicken from a Cello never mind a good P bass tone to a Jazz. So if the engineer is happy and I don't hate it, I let be; hopefully by supplying the desk with a tone based on me, my bass and whatever tone-shaping pedals I use, then it will be what I expect.

Not tried backbeat or P&D but I could look at it. I started with the KZ10 budget IE via Behringer P2 but I also trialled X-Vive unit and a set of AKG 'headphones', which identified an early issue with the digital desk and some presets. I've had issues with the whole fit, size and weight of the KZ10s so I've since bought Sennheiser IE100s to see what they do and already the fit/seal is massively improved. Yes the band(s) are using IE with quality feeds into the desk from Helix, Fractal etc so no issues with it being terrible DIs from cheap amps. The desk gives us 4 independent Aux outs so each band member is allocated one (always the same one so you should be able to set and forget) and has access to set the respective levels for drums/bass/guitar/vocals to their desired level. I take this feed (sans bass) into the Rolls and a separate line from the bass preamp/pedals into the rolls; reason for this is so that I can quickly/easily tweak the bass level relative to the band mix for my IE very quickly without need to access a digital interface. The added bonus is that should anything go wrong with the aux feed I still have my bass into my ears. Wireless is something I have A/B with a couple of wireless sources and Behringer P2 but it isn't the source of any of what I feel are shortcomings. If I did think that a custom set of moulds and a £1000 wireless set would give me what I wanted I'd commit BUT if I can't even get close with what I am trialling then it could be that it just isn't for me. I should add that I've used ear plugs and custom moulded attenuated plugs for 20+ years and I have no problem with listening to program music using IE, it is simply the 'live experience' which isn't translating for me.

I have in my possession an array of cabs which I was going to record to assess / demonstrate their similarities and/or differences. Now none of this is going to be scientific or setting out to prove a point; purely that I have them and someone 'might' be interested in the outcomes. Genz Benz 2x12 NeoX - 4 ohm TC Electronic RS 2x10 (x2) - 8 ohm Aguilar DB 1x12 (x1 no tweeter x2 with tweeter) - 8 ohm TKS 1x15 - 8 ohm My initial thoughts are that I'll need to position the mic in the same reference point on all cabs (close mic, off-axis) and that I'll obviously feed the cab with the same amp on flat settings (not EQing to suit a particular cab); I think it would be prudent for me to use a recording of me playing (a looper might be easiest) to eliminate any variance in my playing. However, I started to wonder about the fact that some of the cabs have 2 drivers v's 1 driver and one of the cabs (Genz Benz) is a 4 ohm load. I could run a pair of TC cabs to get me 4 ohms, likewise a pair of Aguilars but the TKS would be stand alone so would I need to tweak the volume to get relative parity... but then I'd need to consider variance in sensitivity. I think as it is unscientific and for fun I just need to decide if I'm going to pair cabs where they match to give 4 ohms, with the exception of the TKS which will just have to suck it up OR I could do all 8 ohm cabs and leave the Genz Benz as is and see how that compares... thoughts/votes?

In short... THIS! 🤣 I've gigged 40 years + with maybe 39 of that going through some on stage rig that has either been just my backline monitor and/or FOH bass sound. I can't/won't over analyse that side of things as I've chopped and changed gear (for 'whatever' reason) over the years but some rigs I've kept for 5-10 years and some combinations have lasted a couple of gigs. As I say, that is a whole other conversation but ultimately I have to 'like' the sound coming out of the boxes so that it inspires me or gives me some feelgood factor; I'm not going to play bass and it sound naff for me regardless of it sounding superb for an audience. Fast forward to the last year or two; technology moves on, bands start to want to move in certain sonic directions and I'm happy to try. I tried to recreate the sound and feeling I get from amp/cab on stage via various means; pedals, preamps, profilers etc into monitors, IE and combinations of both. This included me capturing my amp and cab via a Kemper, which was a pretty faithful recreation of what I like/want. However the issue is that I'm struggling to get those things (captures, IRs, analogue/digital pedals) to give me that feeling, which I concede is almost impossible. I've had glitches like desk software architecture, poor ear/sound isolation, lack of ability to hear others easily (going into your phone/device mid song is not great) et al and though I'm not trying to recreate trouser-flap/heft, I would like connection with the bass and the other musicians! Actually in searching for the right words to convey what I'm missing or want to achieve, I think that word 'connection' is quite apt. I've always felt that while using amps etc the band have been a unit and connected, whereas using various other methods to achieve amplification of our playing AND monitoring ourselves, I've lost that connection. I've come full circle back to going from my bass to analogue pedals (possibly a whole other thread), with a feed from the pedals to PA (for FOH and other musicians to monitor from the desk) and a separate line out to a Rolls PM351 where I mix in an Aux feed from the desk with the vocals and guitar. I can then blend my bass with the desk feed in real time (assuming I'm happy with the mix I give myself of the rest of the band). I'm also including an ambient mic into the desk to try and capture some of the on-stage sound of the drums (just kick and snare into the desk) and audience. I've probably missed something but I'll come back to it. LOL

I'm using various ways of amplifying myself depending on band (I'm in 3) and situation. When using a monitor FRFR I use my QSC K10 (not 10.2) on a speaker stand, head/ear height at the side of the stage; the ease with which you can hear yourself/the band is superb, defo zero 'boom'!

This has returned to me!

The guitarist who does sound in our band has never understood why I take one feed straight from my preamp pedal into my Rolls PM351 and take an Aux from the desk for the rest of the band... it hasn't happened yet but on the day my feed from the desk goes shonky, I'll still have a nice bass signal.

I really do need to play it more!

Good point. I know I've chopped and changed during my trials, so there's no continuity but there have been times when I've not used the Lekato and there have been issues elsewhere. I'm back to using it again so I'll take more notice (trialling new IE with Behringer P2 and/or Lekato wireless).

I was aware of the latency but it is the only digital in my chain, so not noticeable... to me! 'IF' I was serious about wanting the best and everything was crucial, I'd not be looking at this but as a tester/taster it has proven to be well worth the £60. Our guitar player has the X-Vive and he has more drop out than I do at x5-6 times the price + if something is going to clash with desks and/or routers it tends not to be the Lekato. Just anecdotal.

For about £60 the Lekato system 'does the job'. I'm defo not saying it is a solid piece of kit that will stand up to years of road use, especially if you aren't careful, it ISN'T. However, for a toe in the water it is absolutely fine, especially if you are unsure. A few people have detected a little distortion (I can't) but it could be dependent on other equipment. I'll stress that it is light weight and plastic but it does what it says on the tin. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEKATO-MS-1-Transmitter-Automatic-Performance-Receiver/dp/B0B9W5S4N8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2MPTLFFLZ91OR&keywords=lekato%2Bwireless%2Bin%2Bear&qid=1704485289&sprefix=lekato%2Bwireless%2Bin%2Bear%2B%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

Indeed! The relationship between the 12th fret (top horn hang position on a P bass as a benchmark), top horn length and bridge position give you that 'throw' to where the first fret is.

The 12th fret phenomenon... and nobody has mentioned the Warwick Thumb; now that is a position thrower! re. the Steinberger hook - Ned used that to great effect on his collaboration with John Bolin on the original NS bass. The best bit is that it is designed to swing/fold away so that it doesn't get in the way when not in use on a strap.

Not a great deal more than £100 (I know it is a slippery slope but...) the Sennheiser IE100 (£85) + Behringer P2 (£49). I liked the KZ10's but the physical size/shape/bulk didn't suit my ear and I couldn't quite get a good seal (others manage fine); whereas the IE100 were a lot more comfortable, sealed and had a more pleasing tone. You could go wireless with the Lekato units but we really are heading off into territory where you may as well read every word of the IEM Bible.

In order to persevere with going IE and zero backline I've just purchased the Sennheiser IE100 (wired) IEs via Amazon @ £83 and 'for my ear shape' these are proving a revelation over the Linsoul KZ10s. The seal/isolation is clearly improved even just with the standard foam bud that came fitted (I trialled 6 different buds with the K10s none sealed well or felt comfortable); the low profile and lighter weight also make them easier to wear. I'm aware that they are a 1 driver unit as opposed to the 5 driver of the KZ10 but the overall sound is more pleasing to me when using program music. A quick test with my bass (into the Mooer P1 and a Behringer P2) seems to indicate I'm getting smoother bass and less harsh top end. Oddly before the IE100s I didn't think the KZ10s had any harshness. I'll know better next weekend at the gig if the overall mix sounds better. Just my initial observations.

Live - it worked really well! A very simple set up which consisted of my bass into the Mooer with the out going to a DI box > in-house PA (aux feed to a monitor for me). I didn't need to switch between core sounds or add effects for any songs, so it was a case of using the one preset which I created from scratch, which in fact was the last one I used in the house so I could have turned up at the gig with no phone/interface and it was the preloaded sound ready to go when I powered it up. The sound guy was super impressed and he kindly did a few checks for me to see how it's performance rated. There was zero audible background/baseline noise when not actually playing; his display showed a 'tiny' amount of signal in the low end but he said it categorically couldn't have been heard and he'd not have even noise-gated it out. He does sound for bands 3 times a day all weekend and he is going to investigate buying one as it looks the ideal back up tool for multiple needs.

Well it looks like operator error! Switched the device on, went into the app and within 5 secs I found the global output turned 'off'! With the usual gig stresses (inc a dep drummer), I obviously overlooked the 'obvious'! LOL Effort #2 today then!

Mooer more flexible EQ and effects include in a tiny box... but it is difficult to disagree.

You think it was maxxed?

Hmmm. Sansamp to the rescue. Engineer had to boost the level to the point where it was horribly hissy; I went into the app mixer and it was on max. I need to look to see where it is choking the output. I'll test at another gig tomorrow with a different in-house rig and engineer!

I'm not so worried about the PA; the engineer is old school and knows his stuff, monitors are 15" but not top notch. The band is a simple 3 piece, so getting what I want in the monitor feed is fairly easy (guitar is PA via a Helix/Tone-X/Boss thang). The 'unknown' is how good the Mooer is live but I've decided to put a Sansamp in my bag as a backup.

I have a city centre pub gig tonight (in-house rig and engineer) and parking can be a mare (but not always), so I'm in 2 minds about how little I can take. Mooer - owned it 6 hours but it seems straight forward. Mooer > in-house PA > house monitor and/or IEM I could potentially take a pedalboard and/or full rig BUT I'm inclined to dive in at the deep end. Having trialled some of the user created tones, I've selected the one that is closest to 'my' sound and tweaked it a little. Theoretically, I can tweak the EQ on the fly via the app but hopefully it's a case of Plug and Play. I'll report back tomorrow on the results.

Can't help with your mixing but your drummer is one step closer to IEM after borrowing my Behringer P2 when he depped for us the other day!

I've played bass 'live' for 43 years (30 - 100 gigs per year) and I've never once needed to use a spare bass. That isn't to say I never take one; for high profile important gigs I'll take a spare but for pub/club gigs I don't. Saying that, I look after my gear and attend to issues as soon as they show the first inkling and I change batteries regularly in active basses!

Quick question... why? What is she bringing to the bass that you are not; will she be adding anything that you can't do? If not then it is purely for 'her' gratification which is fine per se BUT what are you then getting out of it? Where is your pleasure gratification? Fine if you gain pleasure from sitting it out watching the rest of the band perform but IMHO I am in a band/part of the band for 'my' pleasure and enjoyment. I would not get pleasure from watching someone else play bass in a band while I sit it out on the sidelines... at least as I sit here and type that is my view (mainly because I wouldn't let it get that far.