warwickhunt

The correct answer is of course... both!

I wish it could be attributed to that but as I'm the bloke lecturing everyone else, I made sure I lead by example and gave it beans when I set the level! LOL It was also the fact it was literally; intro + a few bars... vocals and bass GONE. I'd used the desk with my duo and had assumed the dip in the vocalist level was due to inexperience of her hearing herself through the PA and backing off from the mic. Apparently not and I need to apologise to her.

Yep, pretty much my conclusion. It's then down to me to impress upon folk to be sure to play/sing at gig volumes... and not then increase, which kind of negates the USP of the desks auto feature.

Thought I'd throw a couple of quick thoughts down re the new desk I got (CQ12T). This thing is so small, light and easy to use out of the box that even old hands like me can manage... when you get used to navigation. Nothing unusual in that but I do still find myself toggling through screens trying to remember where the send fader is for something or which screen is the one that allows adjustment all of all of a certain setting in one place. The various PEQs (parametric graph type) are handy and easy to use and I quickly found myself converting the quick/simple channel set ups to the advanced mode, which I didn't think I would but it is quite intuitive... when I can remember which bloody screen. The negative... there has to be one! The one thing that I thought was initially clever was the auto-fader feature... but it isn't! Essentially the desk sets the input gain for you, based upon the input applied by instrument or individual voice and once initially set it will tweak the gain down if the input starts to exceed that which was initially set (guitarist anyone); fine and dandy and this works 'in isolation'! First full band rehearsal using the desk, I went through each of the 3 vocals, bass and acoustic guitar (no drums or electric guitar through the desk at this point), all set independently and sounding good (no peaking etc and the levels looked about where I'd expect them to be if I was using a fader meter). Band kicks into the first song and 8 bars in we are all looking at each other wondering where the hell the vocals and bass just went? Yep, the desk had turned us down and it will not reinstate levels if it pulls them back. I get that with everything playing the mics may well have received extra gain/input but we weren't pointing mics at the speakers or anything but I'm puzzled as to why it pulled back the bass in the desk! The bass was effectively DI straight from a preamp pedal. We tried this several times and each time it did the same thing, so I had to manually reset them and disable that feature. No big deal but a pointless exercise/feature if it won't work on a basic level. I'll report back with new thoughts as and when but has anyone else got one of these desks and wants to chip in?

If all you want is more volume then that will defo work; how it will sound is a case of suck and see. However, if you are being offered it free or cheap it is worth trying. Different manufacturers label various outs in different ways but line out/pre out/Di are all worth trying to see what works best.

You've gone straight in with a big boy then!

Can you not run both cabs off 1 power amp? It is a stereo 400w into 4 ohm amp IIRC... those cabs should match that well. Aside from that is running both cabs necessary? It seems to be a LOT of cabs unless you are playing stadiums! LOL

Plug your extension 8 ohm cab into the other output in the pic, you get your 4 ohm load.

If you compare pics of Sandberg / Fender be aware that the overall dimensions of a Sandberg are less/smaller than a Fender.

Both VS (originally) but the Marley Blue had the extra J inserted at the bridge and the P re routed for a J.

You need to do this!

As the FBT sub has either an 80 or 120 setting and the QSC mains (I THINK) have a 100 filter (or full range flat), I'll have to experiment as to what sounds best. Worst case scenario, the FBT sub deals with the HPF and I leave the mains/tops as full range and they'll only receive above the sub setting. I'm going to HPF guitars and vocals on the desk, hence the sub will only be handling kick drum and bass guitar (should I decide to put the bass through the PA rather than backline). It'll be trial and error but I have a tech rehearsal booked to run tests before it is used in anger.

I'm assuming the QSC 'sub' setting is for use when a sub sends a 'thru' full range signal, which I'll not be doing.

Hmmmm, not sure about that! I have a QSC K10 (10" 1000w) and I defy you to close your eyes and tell me if it is that (PA) monitor or a full blown 2x12 / 4x10 BASS cab... in fact I did the experiment on here.

Defo going to take the HP filter out option from the sub to the mains (so they get nothing below 80/120 depending on setting) but the mains also have a setting for receiving a full range signal from a sub and the mains then apply a filter... why you'd not HP coming from the sub I'm unsure?

Lots of great input and science have guided me to the choices; all down to the operator's abilities from here in! I'll have to have a bit of trial with the 4 settings for the sub X-over/voicing added to the fact that the QSC K10 (mk 1) have X-over settings, which need to be trialled. I may start with the FBT set to 120 and take the HP out to the tops but leave them full range (as opposed to the 'sub' setting. I can then flick between options too get the sweetest spot.

Personally I'd be getting one of these... https://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_art_310_a_mk_iv.htm

I did yes. I considered any sub under 30kg and less than 0.5m cube sized (ish): RCF QSC... but I stopped researching as the FBT appeared on Marketplace (used) 40 miles away. Not the 'best' reason to choose a product but tbh I knew they were a decent make (not the same level as the RCF/QSC but good enough) and if it didn't work out with the 10" tops I'd not lose a lot of money on the sub. It is getting a run out in the next week or two... when I have my head around the QC12 desk.

Would a 'monitor' not be as good/better. It doesn't need to be FRFR, I had a Kemper and I trialled it with various options inc into the power section of a bass rig and an RCF310 was as good as any combination that I tried. I actually got a QSC K10 to use with it but the Kemper wasn't for me but the QSC is still utilised in my band(s).

My Radial Tonebone preamp pedal (not using backline) sends a DI to PA/FOH, with the preamp pedal main out to 'Inst in' on Rolls. I get an Aux send from the PA back to the 'Line in' which I have the rest of the band (no bass as I have control of that on the 'Inst in'). The 'Mic in' is for use as an ambient mic feed but this isn't always needed or is likely sacrificed if it is a bish/bosh turn around.

Exactly how I have it set up (+/- ambient mic as needed). Some might consider it an unnecessary link in the chain but it gives 'me' absolute control of what I hear without being tied to what the rest of the band want/get from an Aux feed from PA/engineer. I did a gig recently where (despite sending a tech spec) I turned up to find the PA/engineer couldn't give me the feed I needed in the time constraints; with the PM351 I at least had a work around. I can either take a cable to my IE (I use a thin phono type lead on a 5m run) or plug my Lekato wireless into the headphone output: as the Rolls is on my pedalboard it is literally at my feet so no worries with signal over distance/obstacles etc.

I may have said this before but I've ran 2400w power amps into 100w speakers and never come close to destroying the speaker... every amp I've ever used has a marvellous feature for controlling this; a volume or gain control. Conversely I've ran 60w amps into 1600w speakers and despite dire warnings from others, neither amp or speaker has come to harm. If you use your ears and 'ideally' a HPF (even the bass control on the EQ not being pushed), you shouldn't need to worry about amp or cab ratings... unless you use the type of speakers that they mount in cars; in which case you deserve what you get!

If something is cheap or at the market value (IMHO) I generally don't haggle but if I know that the going rate is less than a seller has something up for, I'll make offers. I think I've got a fairly good idea of the value of things but that isn't to say that a seller hasn't got a different viewpoint; sentimentality, buying 'new' or having bought something at the top of its price range and then needing to sell in a downbeat marketplace period, is generally when you have a wide range of opinion on price. There's no right or wrong, you just have to be prepared to disagree and walk away or pay what the seller wanted... and then they were right about the value. LOL I never get involved with 'vintage' Fenders etc as that is a minefield of values and authenticity + I don't like them.