Mottlefeeder

[quote name='Phil-osopher10' timestamp='1480697533' post='3186565'] Interesting, is it a more neutral sound than the jack's? Also how heavy were the jack's? [/quote] The Jacks go lower, and have a mid-range hump, so without EQ they can sound a bit 'cardboard box' like. With EQ they sound good, and are louder than a straight reflex enclosure - but you pay for that with the increased size. New reflex cab sitting on a Jack 10. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF1506_zpsybjeoq43.jpg.html"][/url] By removing the lowest 'muddy' octave, but having a strong output just above that, my reflex boxes sound punchier, but still have enough lows to vibrate the floorboards. The mids are smooth enough that flat-wound strings on an ABG sound good without the need for a tweeter. Unfortunately I don't have a weight for the Jack 10 with S2010. David

[quote name='Phil-osopher10' timestamp='1480516173' post='3185029'] What's the finished product like? How does it sound? It looks like a great job [/quote] The complete speaker weighs about 7 kg, so it is an easy load in, whether it is from the carpark to the stage, or parking a street away from the pub. Also, it's small enough that you don't have a problem getting through doors, and the small footprint makes it easy to find space for it. How does it sound - well I'm obviously very biased, but it does what I wanted, very well. I play mainly acoustic bass guitar and it sounds natural with that, with both bass- and amp-EQ set level. It is loud enough to keep up with acoustic guitars going through the PA. Having decided that I preferred it to the sound of my Jack 10s, I've taken the driver out of the other Jack 10 and built a second one of these, and the pair are greater than the sum of the parts - as well as being louder, the bass goes deeper, I recently took a bass, both cabs and a 12 +12 watt battery-powered amp into central Manchester by tram and spent the day busking - everything else went through the PA, but that rig was all that I needed. You probably would not contemplate doing that with most commercial amplifiers/speaker combinations. Hope that helps David

Bill gives the dimensions of the Simplex 10 as 18 x 16.5 x 14 inches, which is not exactly small. Also, if you model an S2010 in that size of enclosure (about 1.8 cu ft when you allow for the wood thickness and the grill clearance), the power handling is quite poor - 80 watts at about 70Hz with a 58Hz port, or 60 watts at about 70 Hz with a 40Hz port. I went for a smaller box that does not go as deep, but handles more power; Bill has gone for a larger box to give better bottom end, but the trade-off is the power handling. David

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1480442553' post='3184467'] ...Do you mind me nicking the plans? ... Fraser [/quote] No problem at all. If there is anything missing, let me know - e.g.foam/wadding I used 1 inch foam from a scrapped hifi speaker for my first cab, and 1.5 inches of wadding in the second cab. - They both sound good. David

Firstly, an apology - I pulled up the wrong WinISD file, so in my last post, the box volume and tuning frequenies are wrong - they came from another version. [u]The background[/u] I seemed to be playing mostly in rooms full of acoustic players, and a pair of Jack 10s (20 x 15 x 16 inches each) would have been a little intrusive. My Hartke Kickback 10 sounded good, but weighed too much for a long walk from the carpark, so I decided to try making a smaller box that I could sit on, using an Eminence Basslite S2010 from one of the Jacks. A bassist on the US Talkbass (Fdeck) has a DIY section on his website, and talks about making smaller boxes because he does not need extreme bass, so my starting point was to try and find out what my upper limit was for falling bass response. Using the variable-frequency high-pass filter in a Fishman preamp, and double checking with another one on my graphic EQ, I came to the conclusion that I could live with a -3dB point of 65-70 Hz, but any higher than that sounded distinctly bass-lite. Fdeck suggests tuning the port to suit the lowest note you want to play, then varying the box size to give you the low frequency cut-off that you want. I modelled the box in WinISD - a speaker design program. Unfortunately, with this speaker, tuning the box to accommodate a 30Hz lowest note gives a gently falling bass response that starts at about 150Hz. I built one, and did not like the sound. [u]The design[/u] Using WinISD I came up with a box size of 0.9 cu ft, with a shelf port tuned to 58Hz. This is similar to an Eminence published design from their website, [url="http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Basslite_S2010_cab.pdf"]http://www.eminence....e_S2010_cab.pdf[/url] but there is a risk of cone over-extension below 50Hz, so depending on what is played through it, it may need a high-pass filter or something similar. The attached screen shots are from WinISD Green = 0.9 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; no filter Grey = 0.9 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; 55Hz 12dB/Octave filter Red = 1.1 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; 55Hz 12dB/Octave filter Frequency response - the larger enclosure is louder between 50 and 100Hz, as expected [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20response_zpsp9isiphu.jpg.html"][/url] Power handling - the larger box has worse power-handling in the 70-100Hz region [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20power%20handling_zpsj2vu8ru2.jpg.html"][/url] Cone movement at 120W - without the filter, the cone excursion exceeds Xmax at about 50Hz. This means distorsion, but not damage. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20cone%20movement_zpsyld8w0x7.jpg.html"][/url] [u]The build[/u] The box was made from 12 inch wide 9mm ply, which I happened to have around, and the wall bracing was 4mm ply. Front and side section view [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF1775_zpszgcmghya.jpg.html"][/url] I used polyurethane wood glue because it foams as it sets, giving a very strong and airtight join. The pictures show the build, but not the mounting ring behind the baffle - this was added later when I realised that the speaker would sit further forward than I expected. Also, the bracing rib was extended to the full length of the port shelf. I lined the inside with 1 inch foam from a scrapped hifi speaker for my first cab, and 1.5 inches of wadding in the second cab. - They both sound good. Do not put foam or wadding within 1.5 inches of the inside end of the port. Box without second side - apologies for the Guardian centre fold! [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0852_zps2082ac9e.jpg.html"][/url] Box compared with an Hartke Kickback 10 - now obsolete [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0854_zps276877b4.jpg.html"][/url] Modified baffle - the blocks on the back wall are the wells for a plate-amplifier fixing screws. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0875_zpsd85388f5.jpg.html"][/url] Completed speaker box beside a battery-powered plate amplifier [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0972_zps22a94527.jpg.html"][/url] David

I'm not sure how to upload drawings on this site, so I will probably have to photograph them and load them in as images. Meanwhile... I used WinISD to calculate the frequencies and volumes, and came out with a design somewhere between the two smaller Eminence designs. The box volume is 0.77 cu ft and the port is tuned to 63 Hz. This is a compromise - a bigger box could go lower, but it will handle less power before the speaker reaches its limits. In this design, the speaker will handle 100 Watts down to 50 Hz, and with a high pass filter set at 55Hz, it will handle 120W without going beyond Xmax. Since a bass guitar note is mainly a mix of fundamental and lower harmonics, and you do not normally hear much of the fundamental, designing it out gives you a smaller box, and few downsides. If that goes totally over your head, I'm playing a 5-string BEADG-tuned bass, using an amplifier that produces about 220 Watts into an 8 ohm speaker rated for 150 Watts, and you can feel the bass through the floor, even though the fundamental is being filtered out. Used without a filter, you need to listen for signs of distress, but it still goes pretty loud. The speaker box is based on a 12 inch wide piece of 9mm plywood. The top, back, bottom, port-shelf and baffle are all 12 inches wide, and the side panels are 12 inches deep. The external dimensions are 12 inches deep by 12.75 inches wide (12 inches plus two 9mm thicknesses) by 15.5 inches high. The port is 7.6 inches long, 12 inches wide, and 1 inch deep. The baffle is set back by 3/4 inch, and the grill is set back 3/8 inch. However, the speaker sealing ring is quite unyielding, and pushed the speaker further out towards the grill than I wanted it to be, so the speaker is mounted on plywood ring glued behind the baffle, so that its front edge is flush with the baffle front. - this will also help to stiffen the baffle. The top, bottom, port shelf and sides are braced with 2 inch wide 1/8 ply running front to back at their midpoints, and the back has a cross of bracing where the vertical and horizontal braces meet. Photographs of the build, and my sketches, to follow. David

I went down this road a couple of years ago and have been very happy with the results. I'm happy for you to check them out - I'm based in Warrington if that is anywhere near you. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0854_zps276877b4.jpg.html"][/url] This is the speaker cab beside the Hartke 10 - no longer in production. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0972_zps22a94527.jpg.html"][/url] The finished speaker cab beside a 150w battery-powered amp, based on a car audio system. David

I don't, but my build thread for a kit from guitar warehouse is here http://finnbass.com/showthread.php?t=10950 if that helps (Unfortunately the link will only work if you are a member on finnbass - the DIY forum is locked to visitors) David

I'm not sure that you can get the sound of an acoustic bass using a solid body, so if that is important, you need to factor it in. Also, acoustic basses are lighter than solid basses, so if you do long sets, or have shoulder/neck problems, they can help. As commented by others, you will need an amp to accompany anything louder that a nylon-stringed guitar. I bought a 5-string acoustic bass and I rarely picked up the solid bass after that - it produced the sound I was looking for. David

If you rarely go anywhere near the octave, you might be able to reprofile the bridge to give you better intonation where you actually play. This bridge is standard on the Countryman bass-uke. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF1446_zps437f5b92.jpg.html"][/url] David

Looking at the practical aspects, if the DB bridge is higher than the Uke bridge, and the DB fingoerboard is higher than the Uke fretboard/fingerboard, then you will need longer strings than you currently have - That's £20 before you even start making sawdust. Also, a DB pickup tends to be under one foot, so the under-bridge rod will give you much more body noise and much less string vibration signal, assuming that you can carve the DB bridge so that it makes contact with it. I'd suggest building up the thickness of the Uke fretboard/fingerboard with an appropriate wood of your choice, and then cutting it back to a radius that suits you. Replace the current bridge with a taller one, and cut it to suit the new fingerboard radius. David

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1470312364' post='3104994'] If anyone is interested, I found this UK-alternative (have to self-build though) [url="http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/Power_Pump/p847124_11037989.aspx"]http://shop.pedalpar...4_11037989.aspx[/url] [/quote] This designer does not recommend its use on battery circuits - presumably it draws more current that other designs. David

For £50 you could buy a reasonable sized 12 volt battery and an invertor to run a mains amp from that battery. Alternatively, you could buy a S/H car stereo amp on ebay and use that with your existing speakers (Before any of the nay-sayers start, major brand name car amplifier manufacturers have been building class AB ampliifiers powered by switch-mode power supplies for several years - many stereo 60w into 4 ohms per channel amplifiers can be bridged to provide about 150W into 4 ohms). Off the shelf battery powered bass systems are likely to be out of your budget. David

So, to summarise, If you know the song, you can play by ear. If you can work out the key, you can think of the chord progression as I, II, II etc, and move it around at will. If you know your fretboard well enough, you can play each root based on its interval from the preceeding one, assuming that you start in the right place and do not lose your place. No-one has volunteered a strategy for quickly working out the key of a song. Any takers on the last point? David

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1468057055' post='3088312'] ...If he has a capo, you aren't going to be following his hands for help... [/quote] I'm not sure that I fully agree with that - if you play in a fretboard cage, then by moving the cage up by the same number of frets as the capo, your root notes will match his/her chords. Unfortunately I can't do that fast enough on a chord by chord basis, and if I lose my position, I struggle to find it again. David

Lots of interesting comments, and just a little bit of negativity towards guitarists. Just to recap, a guitarist turns up at an open mic night with the words and chords he/she needs, and an indication of where the capo goes to get the song in the right vocal range. A bass player introduces himself and asks if he can join in. There is no way that the guitarist's notes for his/her benefit are wrong just because they do not help the bass player. Moving on, a couple of posts suggest mentally converting a song into Nashville notation, and then moving the playing pattern further up the neck. That's fine up to a point, but only if the chord progression makes it obvious what the key is. For example, one of the songs that I play has the chord sequence Verse: Dm /A7 /Dm /A7 /D7 /Gm /Dm /A7 /Dm /C7 / Chorus: F /C7 /F /F7 /Bb /Gm /F /C7 /F /A7 / If I was presented with that and I did not know the song at all, I would use 1 'If it starts and ends with the same chord, that is probably the 1 chord' (so check it out) 2 'If it has three major chords in it, they will probably be I, IV and V (so check it out) 3 'If it has minor chords they will probably be II, III and VI (so check it out) 4 Oh sh#t this is going to sound awful. Firsty, 1, 2 and 3 do not work on that song, so what key is it in, and secondly, what rules do you use to determine which chords are foreign to the key, and what the I chord is? David

Following on from [size=4]'[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I suck at figuring out songs by ear. Any advice guys?' I used to think that I was reasonably proficient at transposing on the fly - then I went to an open mic night with a different set of people with different songs,and I really struggled. I seem to be able to cope with akey change if I know the song, but not if I don't.[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]So how do you deal with a song that you do not know, where you are given the chords, but the guitarist plays it in a different key and you have about 20 seconds before he/she starts?[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]David[/font][/size]

[quote name='nicsim' timestamp='1467018927' post='3080408'] Just coming back to this thread. Interesting point Mottle - about tuning B E A D . I've been reading around on a few "name" bass players' gear and tunings and a few do that - including the late Paul Gray of Slipknot and Journey's Ross Valory. Is there a market for unwanted G strings? [/quote] People who slap and pop too hard are usually glad to take them. David

Amps where the components can be changed are often quite cheap to repair, and parts will be available for many years to come. More modern class D amps use modules, and will be much more difficult to repair when the manufacturer stops making those modules. In short, check the cost of repair before binning it. David

Have you seen the offerings on this site? http://www.playawayguitars.com/play_away_guitars_shop.php?itemID=547 David

If you don't want to pay £400 plus for a headless bass, you can buy a kit and build your own. Mine cost £150 form guitar warehouse and I was pleasantly surprised by the quality. It's also cheap enough that I will take it out on a rainy day, while the owner of the ACG probably would not. David

Something elde to throw into the mix is the pick-up type on the bass you plan to use. Acoustic basses with Piezo pick-ups are pretty much immune to electrical interference, so you can use them with cheap gererators or invertors without getting a buzz or whine through the speakers. Magnetic pick-ups may give you problems with older amplifiers powered from those sources, but class D amps seem to have better filtering, and give fewer problems. David

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1465465512' post='3068424'] ... I've seen people busking with a regular Bass combo and the latter option complete with large trolley! [/quote] Been there, done that - My 300 W Hartke amp and 15 inch speaker fed from an invertor and a caravan battery. [URL=http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/IMG_0099_zps7398178f.jpg.html][IMG]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll54/Mottlefeeder/IMG_0099_zps7398178f.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Something that has not been covered is how long your busking session is likely to be. The type of amplifier and the type/size of battery can have a major effect on the volume available, the length of your set, and the feasibility of carrying/trolleying it back to your car. The PJ briefcase takes a 7Ah battery, which lasts about an hour at high volumes. For a lot less money, you could get a caravan battery and a 12v to 240 volt convertor, and run a medium powered mains rig all day. But it would be a lot less portable. David

If your answer to a shoulder problem is to drop your bass to the level that a waistband will provide significant support, is it not likely that your next problem will be in your left wrist, bending sharply to give you access to the frets? If the waist band is not providing support, but just pulling an out-of-balance bass up, then it will be adding to the pressure on your shoulder. David